The second coming of Jesus and the resurrection of the dead

[3 Resurrections]

So seeing "standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation' spoken of through the prophet Daniel" of Mt 24:15-23,
which in its parallel passage of Lk 21:20-24 is "Jerusalem being surrounded by (Roman) armies,"
refers to the end of the NT age and not the end of the OT age?

Not in my neck o' the woods.

That isn't what I wrote. Christ's second coming return was not the ending of NT affairs. Christ's second coming return coincided with His getting rid of all the "weak and beggarly elements" of the Old Covenant (which had already died when He set up the New Covenant in His blood on His resurrection day).

Because the Jews still stubbornly refused to abandon their OC system which God had set aside, Christ then physically destroyed all those OC elements in that period of Great Tribulation from AD 66-70, with His return scheduled in AD 70 "immediately after the tribulation of those days". History would continue to flow onward after that second coming return, with the saints still contending with various periods of tribulation, but none of which would ever duplicate that of the former "Great Tribulation" from AD 66-70.

It is the future third resurrection event at Christ's third coming which will bring fallen mankind's history to a close. And I'm not so sure that the New Covenant in Christ's blood will ever end, even in the afterlife of eternity for the believers. If it doesn't, that would mean there is no real end to the NT. Ages come to an ending point, but God's covenant is something other than that. But I'd be willing to have a conversation about that in another post.

 

[Eleanor]

That isn't what I wrote. Christ's second coming return was not the ending of NT affairs. Christ's second coming return coincided with His getting rid of all the "weak and beggarly elements" of the Old Covenant (which had already died when He set up the New Covenant in His blood on His resurrection day).
Because the Jews still stubbornly refused to abandon their OC system which God had set aside, Christ then physically destroyed all those OC elements in that period of Great Tribulation from AD 66-70, with His return scheduled in AD 70 "immediately after the tribulation of those days". History would continue to flow onward after that second coming return, with the saints still contending with various periods of tribulation, but none of which would ever duplicate that of the former "Great Tribulation" from AD 66-70.
It is the future third resurrection event at Christ's third coming which will bring fallen mankind's history to a close. And I'm not so sure that the New Covenant in Christ's blood will ever end, even in the afterlife of eternity for the believers. If it doesn't, that would mean there is no real end to the NT. Ages come to an ending point, but God's covenant is something other than that. But I'd be willing to have a conversation about that in another post.

And yet Paul, alive and waiting for this second coming, spoke of that coming in terms of occurring only once, in association with all four of the following events occurring sequentially:

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (Jn 6:39),
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Th 4:16).
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Mt 24:39-41).
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats (Mt 25:31-33).

So in terms of the time of their occurrence, the necessary conclusion is:
the last day = resurrection = rapture = second coming = final judgment of sheep and goats (all mankind)

But in order to make your theology work, you duplicate and triplicate these events, which are nowhere presented in apostolic teaching as duplicated or triplicated, they being only in your personal fancy.

In my neck o' the woods, that dog won't hunt.

 

[3 Resurrections]

But in order to make your theology work, you duplicate and triplicate these events, which are nowhere presented in apostolic teaching as duplicated or triplicated, they being only in your personal fancy.

In my neck o' the woods, that dog won't hunt.

Then you had better be able to explain how Christ can return at the end of the "Great Tribulation" - "immediately after" it - and there are still tribulation episodes that occur in history following that point, none of which are ever able to duplicate the former "Great Tribulation" Matthew 24:21).

You have also got to explain why Christ can bodily return to the Mount of Olives in Zechariah 14:4-5, and there is still history in this world continuing after that with "year to year" worship of the Lord by the righteous of all the nations going up to Jerusalem for the Feast of Tabernacles, and punishment for those of the nations who do not go up to offer this worship to the King, the Lord of hosts (Zechariah 14:16-19).

You will also have to explain why God refers to a "FIRST resurrection" event in Revelation 20:5, without there being at least a second resurrection event to follow that "FIRST resurrection". It is not my own "personal fancy" that is arriving at these conclusions. The scripture testimony is there, and by Christ teaching it as well as the Apostles passing on those teachings.

Jesus locates the resurrection in the last day (Jn 6:39),
Paul locates the resurrection with the rapture (1 Th 4:16).
Jesus locates the rapture with the second coming (Mt 24:39-41).
Jesus locates the second coming with the judgment of the sheep and goats (Mt 25:31-33).

So in terms of the time of their occurrence, the necessary conclusion is:
the last day = resurrection = rapture = second coming = final judgment of sheep and goats (all mankind)

You're right, all these things are connected, and at the last day (the last of Daniel's 1,335 days until a resurrection event) by which time God had shattered the power of the holy people during that "time, times, and half a time" in Daniel 12:7.

And yet Paul, alive and waiting for this second coming, spoke of that coming in terms of occurring only once, in association with all four of the following events occurring sequentially:

Of course there is only one second coming return when all those related things were to take place. There is only one third coming return also.

 

[Eleanor]

Then you had better be able to explain how Christ can return at the end of the "Great Tribulation" - "immediately after" it - and there are still tribulation episodes that occur in history following that point, none of which are ever able to duplicate the former "Great Tribulation" Matthew 24:21).

You'll have to take that up with my dog. . .

 

[3 Resurrections]

You'll have to take that up with my dog. . .

I'm fine with your dismissing all the arguments with a wave of your hand. But the arguments still stand without a response.

We are all posting to the gallery more or less. If you yourself are unable or unwilling to consider these points, the next silent reader may find something to ponder.

 

[Eleanor]

I'm fine with your dismissing all the arguments with a wave of your hand. But the arguments still stand without a response.

We are all posting to the gallery more or less. If you yourself are unable or unwilling to consider these points, the next silent reader may find something to ponder.

Good for them!

They will find them already addressed and, hopefully, will have clearer insight regarding their meanings.

 

[Arial]

You'll have to take that up with my dog. . .

You have a dog? Awww.

 

[Mr GLee]

It is the future third resurrection event at Christ's third coming which will bring fallen mankind's history to a close. And I'm not so sure that the New Covenant in Christ's blood will ever end, even in the afterlife of eternity for the believers. If it doesn't, that would mean there is no real end to the NT. Ages come to an ending point, but God's covenant is something other than that. But I'd be willing to have a conversation about that in another post.

When you say third coming that would mean he left twice? Who was working in the heart of the believer that are still here? No one has received the new incorruptible body.

The Spirit of Christ, God, will leave like a thief in the night on the last day under the sun .The previous things (thou shall not or you will die) will not be remembered or ever come to mind.

 

[Mr GLee]

Then you had better be able to explain how Christ can return at the end of the "Great Tribulation" - "immediately after" it - and there are still tribulation episodes that occur in history following that point, none of which are ever able to duplicate the former "Great Tribulation" Matthew 24:21).

It's not duplicating its work (sola scriptura) it as it is written continues to reform and restore his authority as God unseen .

Great tribulation to the Jew that was hoping dying flesh could profit. . great gospel joy for the believing Jew and Gentiles .One like never before or ever again

 

[Eleanor]

You have a dog? Awww.

Ah did, two precious Corgies, who went "to be with Jesus" a few years ago.
Oh, how i miss them, but it is not feasible to have a dog now.

 

[Arial]

Ah did, two precious Corgies, who went "to be with Jesus" a few years ago.
Oh, how i miss them, but it is not feasible to have a dog now.

Boaz will probably be my last.

 

[Eleanor]

Boaz will probably be my last.
View attachment 645

Oh, how beautiful he is!

Give him a smooch for me.

 

[Arial]

Oh, how beautiful he is!

Give him a smooch for me.

Will do. He is a Dutch Shepherd, rare in the US, but more common in the Mideast and Europe.

That concludes my intermission into the thread.

 

[3 Resurrections]

When you say third coming that would mean he left twice? Who was working in the heart of the believer that are still here? No one has received the new incorruptible body.

Yes, that is what scripture teaches. The Holy Spirit never left. He still remains indwelling any child of faith. Besides giving us assurance of being a child of God, the indwelling Holy Spirit still serves as a pledge of the next bodily resurrection event to come for us.

And yes, the second resurrection event at Christ's second coming return in AD 70 gave new incorruptible and immortal bodies to all the children of faith from Creation forward in time until that AD 70 resurrection. These were all taken to heaven with Christ who received them unto Himself, so that where He was, there they would be also.

Will do. He is a Dutch Shepherd, rare in the US, but more common in the Mideast and Europe.

Arial, that is one majestic creature you have there. The brindled coat is impressive. Our neighbor has one with a bit of a similar coat pattern, but he's not nearly the size of your Boaz. You must get compliments on him quite often.

 

[Arial]

Ariel, that is one majestic creature you have there. The brindled coat is impressive. Our neighbor has one with a bit of a similar coat pattern, but he's not nearly the size of your Boaz. You must get compliments on him quite often.

Yes I do get compliments on him. Even when he was just over a year old, one man stopped me and said, "I bet no one ever bothers you with him around." There is something about the brindled coat and black mask, that truly is majestic as well as lending power and purpose to his appearance. The breed is used in police and military work, and I like to say he wears his camouflage. Truly, if he is standing in leaf dappled sunlight and standing very still, he is hard to see! As a pet and not working, he takes on the same role he had long ago as a flock herder and protector. He notices every nuance of change in his environment and cases it out, is extremely smart, knows quite a few English words, and is highly fluent in body language.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Yes I do get compliments on him. Even when he was just over a year old, one man stopped me and said, "I bet no one ever bothers you with him around." There is something about the brindled coat and black mask, that truly is majestic as well as lending power and purpose to his appearance. The breed is used in police and military work, and I like to say he wears his camouflage. Truly, if he is standing in leaf dappled sunlight and standing very still, he is hard to see! As a pet and not working, he takes on the same role he had long ago as a flock herder and protector. He notices every nuance of change in his environment and cases it out, is extremely smart, knows quite a few English words, and is highly fluent in body language.

Yep, it's all there in the eyes - very expressive. If you don't mind my asking, how old is he now, and what is the life expectancy of his breed?

 

[Eleanor]

Yep, it's all there in the eyes - very expressive. If you don't mind my asking, how old is he now, and what is the life expectancy of his breed?

Some serious dog lovers here. . .

But then, how could anyone not be?

 

[Arial]

Yep, it's all there in the eyes - very expressive. If you don't mind my asking, how old is he now, and what is the life expectancy of his breed?

He is eight. I have had him since he was 4 months. Life expectancy is 11-14 years. If you want to see them in action youtube has some fantastic videos of them at work. They are very athletic. Even by 5 or 6 months he was able to jump to the top of my six foot fence. (He was after a squirrel who had the audacity to run across the top of it.) He has never shown any desire to leave his property, thank heavens. Does no even door bolt.

 

[Arial]

Some serious dog lovers here. . .

But then, how could anyone not be?

Maybe we need a thread for discussion of our pets. I will see what I can do. I could talk about all thrity of the dogs I have had over my lifetime, for ever. Many breeds and mixtures of breeds---all large. All loved deeply. I am hoping when I reach Home, the whole pack will run to greet me. Now, that would be heaven!

 

[Josheb]

It goes to your post about the "church age".

Yes, and you have been asked to prove the existence of something nowhere stated in scripture and you are NOT doing so. Anyone asked to make the case for the doctrine of the Trinity could do so and would do so readily.

You don't.

So do all the other adherents of the church age. Instead you make the matter about me.

It seems you very good at what is not in scripture but when ask how you view a passage to answer a question with a question is not a great debate tactic.

I am very good at it. I am also very good at making my beliefs bend to what is stated in scripture and I have already shown how the Chruch transcends both Old and New Testaments. I have done what the church-agers either will not or cannot do.

I am not the subject of this thread.

This thread is about the second coming of Jesus and the resurrection of the dead. Scripture never states anything called "The Second Coming," but it does report Jesus coming at various times in various ways form various reasons/purposes and I have posted some of them. I would like at least one of the church-agers to show up for the conversation with some honesty and rationally rendered scripture to make the case for a very commonly used phrase, proving the veracity of the phrase AND doing so in a manner that can be used by all -including those sharing the eschatology of the op because Dispensationalists do not share the same view as anyone else and they are not going to accept and apply an unproven view.

If such a case can be made then it should not take more than a single post to do so and the church-agers here have failed so far. So stop making this about me and get of your lazy backside and show up with a case proving an objectively verifiable church age. Otherwise, concede the point so everyone can move on because YOU, not me, are the one holding up the conversation.

My question was simple and needs no explanation. What do you believe about the passage ?

Shifting onus.

I am not required to respond to fallacy other than to say, "That's fallacious." The fact is I have already made the case against the premise of a "church age," and no one here has addressed it other than to acknowledge saints in Christ transcend Old and New.

Answer or not.

Practice what you preach.