The Middle East Issue

[Buff Scott Jr.]

The Middle East Issue​

It is sad indeed that Hamas terrorists have again attacked the State of Israel. They will pay the price. Every peace-seeking State on Earth, regardless of it’s political, religious, or social agenda, has every right to defend itself against those who would pulverize it—yes, even Muslim States fall into that category. Jordan is a Muslin State, but currently a peace-seeking State. If another State or people were to attack her without a just cause, she would be justified in protecting herself—as is the current case with Israel.

It is no secret that some Muslin States, such as Iran, are striving to drive National Israel into the sea. This has been their objective since today’s Middle East Israel was established in 1948. It is my understanding that Israel purchased the land they now possess.

As an established State or Nation, Israel has every right in the world to defend herself against her enemies, just as America does. And when the Palestinians, or any other race of people, establish a State of their own, whether by diplomatic negotiations or by some other political/legal means, the attacks on Israel should cease. If they do not cease, Israel should wipe them off the face of the earth.

Do I believe the attacks will cease? No. I believe the scriptures teach that Jewish people will be persecuted until time is no more, and all because of their former, persistent rebellion again God. It is strikingly interesting how Jesus described and foretold the destruction of old Jerusalem and the Jewish State of Israel in Luke 21:20-24, which occurred in A. D. 67-70, as secular history also confirms.

Arabs/Muslins have an obsession about eradicating Jews and the Jewish Nation. On that note, I do not envision peace in the Middle East. I see war and chaos between today’s Jews and Arabs/Muslins until time is no more. However, I pray my sentiments are inaccurate.​

 

[Musician]

The Saudi Prince (who some believe might be the Anti Christ) was pushing a peace plan with Israel. Hamas as usual threw a wrench into the gearbox. They always do! I was in the Navy under Reagan and we escorted the PLO out of Beirut in 82, of course Hezbollah bombed our barracks there in 83, putting an end to the peace plan. The fundamentalist Arab countries just don't want peace. There's definitely been no changes in the last 40 years.

 

[atpollard]

Hamas is the official GOVERNMENT of the Gaza Strip and its 2 million inhabitants. It was ELECTED into leadership. The GOVERNMENT of Gaza has chosen, in my opinion, to declare WAR on the NATION of Israel. It seems that the time has come for the world to stop restraining Israel from defending itself as it is repeatedly attacked by a hostile government.

I feel as sorry for the 2 million people of Gaza as I feel for the 70 million people of Germany that elected the Nazi party into power and brought WW2 upon Europe and itself. However, the people of Gaza wanted both their government and a war ... who are we to prevent their victims from retaliating (certainly the US has shown a willingness to retaliate when attacked).

Israel needs to take GAZA and drive Hamas into the sea ... for its long term security.

The 109 million population of Egypt could easily absorb another 2 million Muslims from Gaza if it chose to (the US admits 1.8 million immigrants EVERY YEAR!) or allow them to emigrate to other Arabic speaking countries [Egypt shares a border with Gaza].

 

[CrowCross]

The Middle East Issue​

It is sad indeed that Hamas terrorists have again attacked the State of Israel. They will pay the price. Every peace-seeking State on Earth, regardless of it’s political, religious, or social agenda, has every right to defend itself against those who would pulverize it—yes, even Muslim States fall into that category. Jordan is a Muslin State, but currently a peace-seeking State. If another State or people were to attack her without a just cause, she would be justified in protecting herself—as is the current case with Israel.

It is no secret that some Muslin States, such as Iran, are striving to drive National Israel into the sea. This has been their objective since today’s Middle East Israel was established in 1948. It is my understanding that Israel purchased the land they now possess.

As an established State or Nation, Israel has every right in the world to defend herself against her enemies, just as America does. And when the Palestinians, or any other race of people, establish a State of their own, whether by diplomatic negotiations or by some other political/legal means, the attacks on Israel should cease. If they do not cease, Israel should wipe them off the face of the earth.

Do I believe the attacks will cease? No. I believe the scriptures teach that Jewish people will be persecuted until time is no more, and all because of their former, persistent rebellion again God. It is strikingly interesting how Jesus described and foretold the destruction of old Jerusalem and the Jewish State of Israel in Luke 21:20-24, which occurred in A. D. 67-70, as secular history also confirms.

Arabs/Muslins have an obsession about eradicating Jews and the Jewish Nation. On that note, I do not envision peace in the Middle East. I see war and chaos between today’s Jews and Arabs/Muslins until time is no more. However, I pray my sentiments are inaccurate.​

I don't disagree....

Thing is the Israel Government...Netanyahu...let the sneak attack happen.

 

[atpollard]

Thing is the Israel Government...Netanyahu...let the sneak attack happen.

One Security observer described it as Israel's "Pearl Harbor" ... the wake-up call failure that the intelligence community had become far too complacent and self-confident.

 

[CrowCross]

One Security observer described it as Israel's "Pearl Harbor" ... the wake-up call failure that the intelligence community had become far too complacent and self-confident.

Years later it was established that Pearl Harbor wasn't really a sneak attack....well, for the Government. Those at Pearl Harbor didn't know.

America needed a way into the war. I've heard several "theories" as to why the Israel Government let the invasion happen.

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

The Saudi Prince (who some believe might be the Anti Christ) was pushing a peace plan with Israel. Hamas as usual threw a wrench into the gearbox. They always do! I was in the Navy under Reagan and we escorted the PLO out of Beirut in 82, of course Hezbollah bombed our barracks there in 83, putting an end to the peace plan. The fundamentalist Arab countries just don't want peace. There's definitely been no changes in the last 40 years.

Thank you, Musician, for the additional info.

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

I don't disagree....

Thing is the Israel Government...Netanyahu...let the sneak attack happen.

I'm not sure you're correct on this "sneak attack" bit. I'd like to see some documentation for it.

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

Years later it was established that Pearl Harbor wasn't really a sneak attack....well, for the Government. Those at Pearl Harbor didn't know.

America needed a way into the war. I've heard several "theories" as to why the Israel Government let the invasion happen.

I'm not sure you're correct on this "sneak attack" bit. I'd like to see some documentation for it.

 

[EarlyActs]

The Middle East Issue​

It is sad indeed that Hamas terrorists have again attacked the State of Israel. They will pay the price. Every peace-seeking State on Earth, regardless of it’s political, religious, or social agenda, has every right to defend itself against those who would pulverize it—yes, even Muslim States fall into that category. Jordan is a Muslin State, but currently a peace-seeking State. If another State or people were to attack her without a just cause, she would be justified in protecting herself—as is the current case with Israel.

It is no secret that some Muslin States, such as Iran, are striving to drive National Israel into the sea. This has been their objective since today’s Middle East Israel was established in 1948. It is my understanding that Israel purchased the land they now possess.

As an established State or Nation, Israel has every right in the world to defend herself against her enemies, just as America does. And when the Palestinians, or any other race of people, establish a State of their own, whether by diplomatic negotiations or by some other political/legal means, the attacks on Israel should cease. If they do not cease, Israel should wipe them off the face of the earth.

Do I believe the attacks will cease? No. I believe the scriptures teach that Jewish people will be persecuted until time is no more, and all because of their former, persistent rebellion again God. It is strikingly interesting how Jesus described and foretold the destruction of old Jerusalem and the Jewish State of Israel in Luke 21:20-24, which occurred in A. D. 67-70, as secular history also confirms.

Arabs/Muslins have an obsession about eradicating Jews and the Jewish Nation. On that note, I do not envision peace in the Middle East. I see war and chaos between today’s Jews and Arabs/Muslins until time is no more. However, I pray my sentiments are inaccurate.​

I don't think the mistakes that resulted in the 1st. cent. are what Islam objects to. They cite the Prophet's designation of Jerusalem as sacred to them; that and the fact that they don't want to 'recapture' a land once held. I don't know what it will take to shake their view of their book.

 

[atpollard]

Word on the MSM (always a reliable source of information ) is than Iran is fighting a "proxy war" via this Gaza attack. If confirmed, Israel knows who to attack. [Both Iran and Israel have never been shy about their plans for one another.]

 

[CrowCross]

I'm not sure you're correct on this "sneak attack" bit. I'd like to see some documentation for it.

Not quite sure which direction you are taking...are yu saying the Israel Government was surprised or not surprised?

 

[Eleanor]

The Saudi Prince (who some believe might be the Anti Christ) was pushing a peace plan with Israel. Hamas as usual threw a wrench into the gearbox. They always do! I was in the Navy under Reagan and we escorted the PLO out of Beirut in 82, of course Hezbollah bombed our barracks there in 83, putting an end to the peace plan. The fundamentalist Arab countries just don't want peace. There's definitely been no changes in the last 40 years.

Did it all start when the Jews fled Russia to Palestine in the late 1800's?

 

[CrowCross]

Did it all start when the Jews fled Russia to Palestine in the late 1800's?

Didn't the Jews flee to the land God promised them?

 

[Musician]

Did it all start when the Jews fled Russia to Palestine in the late 1800's?

Does it matter? I remember Israel winning back some land in a war fair and square. Since then they've been the only ones to compromise.

 

[Eleanor]

Didn't the Jews flee to the land God promised them?

But the land promise to the seed of Abraham has been fulfilled, both in its full possession under Joshua (Josh 23:14, 21:43) and its full occupation under Solomon (1 Kgs 4:21, 24-25), with the everlasting possession (Ge 17:8, 48:4) being fulfilled in the heavenly land (Heb 1:13-16), not earthly land.

Likewise, just as the Ismaelites inherited no promises to Abraham because
they were not the seed of Abraham born of the promise (to Sarah, Isaac).
so unbelieving Jews no longer inherit any promises to Abraham, because
they are not the seed of Abraham born of the promise (Ge 15:5, seed; Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16),

Only the seed of the promise to Sarah (the new covenant in Jesus Christ) inherit the promises (Gal 4:30).

No land promise remains to the Jews.

 

[Musician]

Bible Gateway passage: Zechariah 12 - New International Version

Jerusalem’s Enemies to Be Destroyed - A prophecy: The word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares: “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Buff Scott Jr.]

Eleanor:

Regarding your post #16, here are a few thoughts relative to that Post.

In a nutshell, Israel, as a Nationally established State, must defend herself against her enemies—and in a robust manner. But she and fundamental believers should cease asserting that the physical land of Israel belongs to the Jews forever because God promised it to them. God’s promise is ongoing, but not in the form it was originally awarded. From my perspective, National Israel does not own one inch of land by divine right. She owns it by National right only. It is not an exaggeration to say that during the Roman/Jewish war of A. D. 67-70, God removed forever the divine right of Jews to possess physical land—as a nation. They may no longer possess and rule by divine right.

Another interesting thought, and one you touched upon, is that God’s promise to give Israel natural—terrestrial—land was literally fulfilled under Joshua. “So the Lord gave Israel all the land He had sworn to give their forefathers. Not one of all the Lord’s good promises to the house of Israel failed; everyone was fulfilled” (Joshua 21:43-45).

I make note of this because many supporters of National Israel today claim that the land promise is yet to be consummated or completed. The promise relating to physical land was fulfilled under Joshua, but because of their continual rebellion God removed all the land He had given them during the Roman/Jewish war of 67-70 A. D. In a spiritual sense, the promise pertaining to their possessing the land forever is still valid, but, as noted earlier, not in the configuration it was originally conferred.​

 

[atpollard]

@Buff Scott Jr.

While I acknowledge that God certainly has both the Power and the Right to assign land to whomever it pleases Him, do you have any scripture that even SUGGESTS that God withdrew His gift/Promise of land from Israel in AD 67-70?

(Your view seems as extra-Biblical as the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin.)

 

[atpollard]

On the Middle East issue, I was conflicted between the reality that Hamas in Gaza posed a terrorist threat to EVERYONE ... which needed to be dealt with, and compassion for 2 million Palestinians (40% children) living in Gaza and trapped in the middle of a War. On the one hand, Hamas IS the elected Government in Gaza and the German Civilians probably suffered for their decision to elect the Nazi Party to power in Germany when the Allies bombed German cities to destroy German factories and capture Nazi leaders. On the other hand, nobody wants to see 800,000 children bombed into extinction because Hamas built its factories and launch sites UNDER the residential housing and schools.

The Harvard letter swayed my opinion. If Palestinians living in the US and attending Ivy League universities can embrace such COMPLETE HATE for the very existence of Jewish people that the babies beheaded in Jewish settlements near Gaza "deserved it", then all Palestinians are Hamas in their hearts. This suspicion came far too close to home when my daughter attending USF received a warning from the USF Administration to avoid parts of campus, travel in groups, and observe a curfew after dark with Jewish students needing to be extra vigilant as the planned Pro-Palestinian Rally was anticipated to become violent.

Now I find myself forced to consider the real possibility that Gaza is simply home to 2 million terrorists in various stages of training. There is no 2 state solution, because the Palestinians do not want to live ... they want to kill Jews. Even at Harvard and USF, their goal is to justify the killing of Jewish civilians rather than trying to improve the lives of Palestinians.

I am VERY GLAD that God did not put me in charge ... these are not choices that I would like to be responsible for making.