The Mercy Seat

[Alive]

I believe that from God's point of view, there is no broken or improper fellowship--because we are 'In Christ' and when He sees us (typically and in reality), He sees the perfect Lamb of God and the completed work of atonement.

When we who are 'born again' sin, because of our weakness in the flesh and lack of faith, our conscience condemns us and we have a 'sense' of improper fellowship --so we confess our sin and we find that Grace and solace that heals our soul. This is His Grace and Mercy to His children as we are growing up.

The reality, from God's perspective is that we were already forgiven and never fell from that place on the Mercy Seat between the two cherubim. This is where He meets us.

Ex. 25:17 “You shall make a mercy seat of pure gold; two and a half cubits shall be its length and a cubit and a half its width. 18 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat. 19 Make one cherub at one end, and the other cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim at the two ends of it of one piece with the mercy seat. 20 And the cherubim shall stretch out their wings above, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and they shall face one another; the faces of the cherubim shall be toward the mercy seat. 21 You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you. 22 And there I will meet with you,

This is where the Lord meets us. Where the 'blood' was sprinkled and atonement is made. Its interesting what Mary Magdalene saw when she looked into the tomb where Christ lay.

John 20:11 But Mary stood outside by the tomb weeping, and as she wept she stooped down and looked into the tomb. 12 And she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

To me this hearkens back to the Mercy Seat and the two cherubim.

He became the atonement and propitiation for our sins and a once for all high priest to boot. A once for all propitiation and there is now no longer a need for a priest to continually sprinkle the blood between the angels.

Rom. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

I believe that from God's point of view, there is no broken or improper fellowship--because we are 'In Christ' and when He sees us (typically and in reality), He sees the perfect Lamb of God and the completed work of atonement.

Forgive me if I missed something in your text, Alive, but perhaps this isn't quite right? Now I present this thought with a few caveats

1. I celebrate communion once a year. The reason for this is that Jesus in the upper room subordinated Passover for Himself. Yes I know there are other references to breaking bread but I believe this practice ( breaking bread with brothers ) was the church taking care of it's own after being declared dead by their families, losing inheritance, and in real possibility of starving.
2. Paul excoriates the church for holding parties during this time of remembering the Lord. They also show preference too "richer" guests.

3. Jesus says the following which I find interesting and sobering:

Matthew 5:
23 Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,24 leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.

So it is my personally held conviction that the command to examine ourselves for communion is to ask if we have offended a "brother" over the year. Whether by preference, pride, word, deed, or lack of care. If so we are not to approach the table until we have made it right.

I would lump this under not discerning our fellowship aright even though we are "In Christ".

Now...In Christ I do believe, as you do, that God sees us in Him ( Jesus ) for atonement. But that is different from our lateral fellowship where we can err and we are warned not to do so.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Reading through more slowly I see you are more concerned with the vertical aspect of fellowship. This I agree with. <3

 

[Alive]

Forgive me if I missed something in your text, Alive, but perhaps this isn't quite right? Now I present this thought with a few caveats

1. I celebrate communion once a year. The reason for this is that Jesus in the upper room subordinated Passover for Himself. Yes I know there are other references to breaking bread but I believe this practice ( breaking bread with brothers ) was the church taking care of it's own after being declared dead by their families, losing inheritance, and in real possibility of starving.
2. Paul excoriates the church for holding parties during this time of remembering the Lord. They also show preference too "richer" guests.

3. Jesus says the following which I find interesting and sobering:

Matthew 5:
23 Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,24 leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.

So it is my personally held conviction that the command to examine ourselves for communion is to ask if we have offended a "brother" over the year. Whether by preference, pride, word, deed, or lack of care. If so we are not to approach the table until we have made it right.

I would lump this under not discerning our fellowship aright even though we are "In Christ".

Now...In Christ I do believe, as you do, that God sees us in Him ( Jesus ) for atonement. But that is different from our lateral fellowship where we can err and we are warned not to do so.

Yes…I did address this in principle. There is a practical difference in our onging sanctification from our point of view and by necessity as we engage in this process as the Lord is at work in us. This is not that. The crux of my post relates to God’s point of view and the scope of our Redemption. The blood of Christ is perectly efficacious for those in Christ.
Even when we are not behaving pefectly, He ever sees Christ’s Righteousness, as we have none of our own.
These are things we all need to have down pat…especially young converts.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Yes…I did address this in principle. There is a practical difference in our onging sanctification from our point of view and by necessity as we engage in this process as the Lord is at work in us. This is not that. The crux of my post relates to God’s point of view and the scope of our Redemption. The blood of Christ is perectly efficacious for those in Christ.
Even when we are not behaving pefectly, He ever sees Christ’s Righteousness, as we have none of our own.
These are things we all need to have down pat…especially young converts.

Yep...figured that out when I slowed down and read carefully.

 

[Eleanor]

I believe that from God's point of view, there is no broken or improper fellowship--because we are 'In Christ' and when He sees us (typically and in reality), He sees the perfect Lamb of God and the completed work of atonement.

When we who are 'born again' sin, because of our weakness in the flesh and lack of faith, our conscience condemns us and we have a 'sense' of improper fellowship --so we confess our sin and we find that Grace and solace that heals our soul. This is His Grace and Mercy to His children as we are growing up.

The reality, from God's perspective is that we were already forgiven and never fell from that place on the Mercy Seat between the two cherubim. This is where He meets us.

I'm thinking the NT perspective is God's perspective, wherein authoritative apostolic teaching is that all are born condemned (Ro 5:18) and by (fallen) nature are under the wrath of God (Eph 2:3) until their sovereign rebirth by the Holy Spirit, which is as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3;3-8).

Ex. 25:17 “You shall make a mercy seat of pure gold; two and a half cubits shall be its length and a cubit and a half its width. 18 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat. 19 Make one cherub at one end, and the other cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim at the two ends of it of one piece with the mercy seat. 20 And the cherubim shall stretch out their wings above, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and they shall face one another; the faces of the cherubim shall be toward the mercy seat. 21 You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you. 22 And there I will meet with you,

This is where the Lord meets us. Where the 'blood' was sprinkled and atonement is made. Its interesting what Mary Magdalene saw when she looked into the tomb where Christ lay.

John 20:11 But Mary stood outside by the tomb weeping, and as she wept she stooped down and looked into the tomb. 12 And she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

To me this hearkens back to the Mercy Seat and the two cherubim.

He became the atonement and propitiation for our sins and a once for all high priest to boot. A once for all propitiation and there is now no longer a need for a priest to continually sprinkle the blood between the angels.

Rom. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

 

[Arial]

The reality, from God's perspective is that we were already forgiven and never fell from that place on the Mercy Seat between the two cherubim. This is where He meets us.

Ex. 25:17 “You shall make a mercy seat of pure gold; two and a half cubits shall be its length and a cubit and a half its width. 18 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat. 19 Make one cherub at one end, and the other cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim at the two ends of it of one piece with the mercy seat. 20 And the cherubim shall stretch out their wings above, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and they shall face one another; the faces of the cherubim shall be toward the mercy seat. 21 You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you. 22 And there I will meet with you,

This is where the Lord meets us. Where the 'blood' was sprinkled and atonement is made. Its interesting what Mary Magdalene saw when she looked into the tomb where Christ lay.

There is also another (oh there are many!) OT account that always and ever when I read it, sends me straight the remembrance of Heb 4:14-16 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

And that is from the book of Esther. Keep in mind that no one could go before the king's throne without invitation, and Esther had not been invited.

Esther 5: 1-3 On the third day Esther put on her royal robes and stood in the inner court of the king's palace, in front of the king's quarter, while the king was sitting on his royal throne inside the throne room opposite the entrance to the palace. And when the king saw Queen Esther standing in the court, she won favor in his sight, and he held out to Esther the golden scepter that was in his hand. Then Esther approached and touched the tip of the scepter. And the king said to her, "What is it, Queen Esther? What is your request---"

 

[donadams]

Gal 5:4
Heb 12;15

 

[Arial]

Gal 5:4
Heb 12;15

What was your reason for quoting these scriptures?

 

[donadams]

What was your reason for quoting these scriptures?

Someone said can’t fall from grace
Thanks

 

[donadams]

Queen Esther & Queen Mary!


Old Testament type or example provided by God for our instruction!

Queen Esther

Queen Esther fair: est 2:7
Mary all fair: gen3:15 Song of Solomon 4:12 Lk 1:28 rev 12:1

And the king loved Esther above all the women, and she obtained grace and favour in his sight more than all the virgins; est 2:17
Song of S. 4:2 love of God for Mary!
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
Lk 1:28 also Lk 1:30 1:42 1:45 1:48
Mary obtained grace and favor: Lk 1:28
Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Esther merits the graces of the king for the people. Est
Mary merits the graces we need but don’t deserve. Lk 1:30
Mother is the mother of our savior and our salvation! Lk 2:30 matt 1:21

They prayed to Esther to intercede for them before the king. As Mary intercedes for Christians before God.

Queen Esther found favor with the king: est 2:17
Mary found favor with God: Lk 1:30

Queen Esther saves her people interceding with the king: est 8:17
Mary provides the savior of the world!
Lk 2:10-11

Queen Esther receives half the kingdom!
Mary receives half the kingdom, Christ retains the kingdom of justice as just judge and Mary is the queen of grace & mercy! Hence the throne of grace is Mary’s throne! Heb 4:16
Depicted in genesis as the greater light that rules the day (those living in God’s will) and the lesser light that governs the night (those living in sin) Mary the mother of mercy and refuge of sinners!
Notice the sun is the source of all good and moon only reflects this goodness!
She directs all to Her divine son! Jn 2:5


Mary is created by God thru the immaculate conception worthy to receive grace, and the miraculous conception of the Holy Spirit, and the savior and our salvation!

Notice how Christ died for us!

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

We were not worthy to die for our own salvation!

The same applies to grace, we are not worthy to receive grace, so God made Mary by the immaculate conception worthy to receive all grace for us, and worthy to miraculously conceive of the Holy Spirit and to give birth to our savior and worthy to receive our salvation!

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Lk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

Lk 2:30 I have seen my salvation.

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

God will not give grace to one who is not worthy or who cannot receive it, God will not give graces only to be lost or wasted but must be Efficacious!

All graces are merited by Christ (Jn 1:16-17 1 Jn 1:7) and given to men in the immaculate conception, (Lk 1:28 Lk 1:49 Heb 4:16 until we are able thru baptism (Jn 3:5) to receive them!

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Mary had this faith for us, (Lk 1:45 )and became the mother of our salvation!
(Lk 2:30)

Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Just as redemption is held in Christ so grace is held on Mary! Lk 1:28 full of grace Heb 4:16 the throne of grace Lk 1:30 found favor of our salvation

This applies to Mary not by nature but by the power and will of God!



Queen Mary
Psalm 45

Not idolatry cos an idol must represent a god, Mary is not God and is not representing a god!

Psalm 45:2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Psalm45:3 Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.

4 And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.

5 Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.

6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

8 All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Psalm 45:9 Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.

10 Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house;

11 So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him.

12 And the daughter of Tyre shall be there with a gift; even the rich among the people shall intreat thy favour.

13 The king's daughter is all glorious within: her clothing is of wrought gold.

14 She shall be brought unto the king in raiment of needlework: the virgins her companions that follow her shall be brought unto thee.

15 With gladness and rejoicing shall they be brought: they shall enter into the king's palace.

16 Instead of thy fathers shall be thy children, whom thou mayest make princes in all the earth.

17 I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever and ever.

Lk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

Lk 1: 48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

 

[donadams]

Acts 7:48
Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

But in Mary for nine months!

King david has love of Mary!

Psalm 26:8
Lord, I have loved the habitation of thy house, and the place where thine honour dwelleth.

Ex 40:34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.

Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


2 Sam 6:2 And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of the Lord of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims.

Lk 1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;


2 Sam 6:3 And they set the ark of God upon a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab that was in Gibeah: and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drave the new cart.

4 And they brought it out of the house of Abinadab which was at Gibeah, accompanying the ark of God: and Ahio went before the ark.

5 And David and all the house of Israel played before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals.

2 Sam 6:16 And as the ark of the Lord came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the Lord;

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:


2 Sam 6:9 And David was afraid of the Lord that day, and said, How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?

Lk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?


2 Sam 6:11 And the ark of the Lord continued in the house of Obededom the Gittite three months: and the Lord blessed Obededom, and all his household.

Lk 1:56 And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.


2 Sam 6:12 And it was told king David, saying, The Lord hath blessed the house of Obededom, and all that pertaineth unto him, because of the ark of God. So David went and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obededom into the city of David with gladness.

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1: 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied…


King David took the ark of the covenant up to the earthly Jerusalem! 2 Sam 6:10

King Jesus takes the ark of the new covenant up to the heavenly Jerusalem! Rev 12:1

 

[donadams]

Ark of the new covenant!
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
And cannot be used for any common purpose!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house of bread!

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Holy mother of God!

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Biblical principle:
Anything Consecrated to God must be pure, holy, and only used for the service of God!

See exodus: the ark of the covenant, everything used in the temple etc.

 

[Arial]

Mary merits the graces we need but don’t deserve. Lk 1:30

Do you not see that meriting grace makes grace no longer grace?

Queen Esther fair: est 2:7
Mary all fair: gen3:15 Song of Solomon 4:12 Lk 1:28 rev 12:1

That gives about as much evidence of Mary being on the throne of grace as it would for Esther being on the throne of grace. The way you are interpreting the Bible is not the correct way to interpret it. The correct way follows the rules of hermeneutics and letting the Bible interpret itself.

Queen Esther receives half the kingdom!
Mary receives half the kingdom, Christ retains the kingdom of justice as just judge and Mary is the queen of grace & mercy! Hence the throne of grace is Mary’s throne! Heb 4:16
Depicted in genesis as the greater light that rules the day (those living in God’s will) and the lesser light that governs the night (those living in sin) Mary the mother of mercy and refuge of sinners!
Notice the sun is the source of all good and moon only reflects this goodness!
She directs all to Her divine son! Jn 2:5

You give no support for any of that. It is not contained in the Bible. And just in case you think the scriptures you provided are support they aren't. You present them with you presuppostions in them and give no biblical evidence for those presuppositions.

Mary is created by God thru the immaculate conception worthy to receive grace, and the miraculous conception of the Holy Spirit, and the savior and our salvation!

The Bible nowhere says that, and does not even say anything that could remotely be taken to be saying that.

The same applies to grace, we are not worthy to receive grace, so God made Mary by the immaculate conception worthy to receive all grace for us, and worthy to miraculously conceive of the Holy Spirit and to give birth to our savior and worthy to receive our salvation!

Nowhere found in the Bible. It is just a case of the RCC claiming to have authority over the Bible and above it, and you actually believing them. That was actually demonstrated and settled centuries ago. As to the rest of your post, apply this to it,

 

[donadams]

Do you not see that meriting grace makes grace no longer grace?

That gives about as much evidence of Mary being on the throne of grace as it would for Esther being on the throne of grace. The way you are interpreting the Bible is not the correct way to interpret it. The correct way follows the rules of hermeneutics and letting the Bible interpret itself.

You give no support for any of that. It is not contained in the Bible. And just in case you think the scriptures you provided are support they aren't. You present them with you presuppostions in them and give no biblical evidence for those presuppositions.


The Bible nowhere says that, and does not even say anything that could remotely be taken to be saying that.

Nowhere found in the Bible. It is just a case of the RCC claiming to have authority over the Bible and above it, and you actually believing them. That was actually demonstrated and settled centuries ago. As to the rest of your post, apply this to it,

Mary merits the graces we need but don’t deserve. Lk 1:30

Do you not see that meriting grace makes grace no longer grace?

No cos Mary is not the mother of divine grace by nature, but by grace and the power of God thru the immaculate conception of Mary in her mother womb without sin. Lk 1:49

Mary received all graces for us and gives birth to us who are born again.
Mary gives birth to the body of Christ and is our spiritual mother and the mother of our salvation
Jn19:26 rev12:17

donadams said:
Queen Esther fair: est 2:7
Mary all fair: gen3:15 Song of Solomon 4:12 Lk 1:28 rev 12:1

That gives about as much evidence of Mary being on the throne of grace as it would for Esther being on the throne of grace. The way you are interpreting the Bible is not the correct way to interpret it. The correct way follows the rules of hermeneutics and letting the Bible interpret itself.

No the church has the gift of the scripture and the Holy Spirit and only the church can give authentic meaning of scripture.

Heb 4:16 the throne of grace is Mary’s throne, Lk 1:28 “full of grace”
And Christ is the source of all grace Jn 1:16-17 and He came thru Mary, so all graces come thru but not from Mary. Jesus is at the right hand of the father on the great white throne.

donadams said:
Queen Esther receives half the kingdom!
Mary receives half the kingdom, Christ retains the kingdom of justice as just judge and Mary is the queen of grace & mercy! Hence the throne of grace is Mary’s throne! Heb 4:16
Depicted in genesis as the greater light that rules the day (those living in God’s will) and the lesser light that governs the night (those living in sin) Mary the mother of mercy and refuge of sinners!
Notice the sun is the source of all good and moon only reflects this goodness!
She directs all to Her divine son! Jn 2:5

You give no support for any of that. It is not contained in the Bible. And just in case you think the scriptures you provided are support they aren't. You present them with you presuppostions in them and give no biblical evidence for those presuppositions.

These are biblical types of new covenant reality.

donadams said:
Mary is created by God thru the immaculate conception worthy to receive grace, and the miraculous conception of the Holy Spirit, and the savior and our salvation!

The Bible nowhere says that, and does not even say anything that could remotely be taken to be saying that.

How could the Holy Spirit of God be in union with and conceive in a sinner?

Read exodus and the Old Testament
Anything used for God’s service must be holy, consecrated, and used only for God’s service.

Read about the ark of the covenant!

donadams said:
The same applies to grace, we are not worthy to receive grace, so God made Mary by the immaculate conception worthy to receive all grace for us, and worthy to miraculously conceive of the Holy Spirit and to give birth to our savior and worthy to receive our salvation!
Nowhere found in the Bible. It is just a case of the RCC claiming to have authority over the Bible and above it, and you actually believing them. That was actually demonstrated and settled centuries ago. As to the rest of your post, apply this to it,

Christ established the church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation.

Jesus Christ is our salvation. Lk 2:30
Not just doctrine to be believed, not just a sacrifice, but is in His person even as an infant “our eternal salvation “!

The angel of the Lord declared unto Mary and she conceived “our salvation” of the Holy Spirit!
Matt 1:20-23 Lk 1:35

Mary consented to “our salvation”! Lk 1:38

Found “our salvation” lost by Adam. Lk 1:30

Mother of “our salvation”! Lk 2:30

Thanks

Questions welcome

 

[Arial]

Mary merits the graces we need but don’t deserve. Lk 1:30

Do you not see that meriting grace makes grace no longer grace?

No cos Mary is not the mother of divine grace by nature, but by grace and the power of God thru the immaculate conception of Mary in her mother womb without sin. Lk 1:49

Mary received all graces for us and gives birth to us who are born again.
Mary gives birth to the body of Christ and is our spiritual mother and the mother of our salvation
Jn19:26 rev12:17

donadams said:
Queen Esther fair: est 2:7
Mary all fair: gen3:15 Song of Solomon 4:12 Lk 1:28 rev 12:1

That gives about as much evidence of Mary being on the throne of grace as it would for Esther being on the throne of grace. The way you are interpreting the Bible is not the correct way to interpret it. The correct way follows the rules of hermeneutics and letting the Bible interpret itself.

No the church has the gift of the scripture and the Holy Spirit and only the church can give authentic meaning of scripture.

Heb 4:16 the throne of grace is Mary’s throne, Lk 1:28 “full of grace”
And Christ is the source of all grace Jn 1:16-17 and He came thru Mary, so all graces come thru but not from Mary. Jesus is at the right hand of the father on the great white throne.

donadams said:
Queen Esther receives half the kingdom!
Mary receives half the kingdom, Christ retains the kingdom of justice as just judge and Mary is the queen of grace & mercy! Hence the throne of grace is Mary’s throne! Heb 4:16
Depicted in genesis as the greater light that rules the day (those living in God’s will) and the lesser light that governs the night (those living in sin) Mary the mother of mercy and refuge of sinners!
Notice the sun is the source of all good and moon only reflects this goodness!
She directs all to Her divine son! Jn 2:5

You give no support for any of that. It is not contained in the Bible. And just in case you think the scriptures you provided are support they aren't. You present them with you presuppostions in them and give no biblical evidence for those presuppositions.

These are biblical types of new covenant reality.

donadams said:
Mary is created by God thru the immaculate conception worthy to receive grace, and the miraculous conception of the Holy Spirit, and the savior and our salvation!

The Bible nowhere says that, and does not even say anything that could remotely be taken to be saying that.

How could the Holy Spirit of God be in union with and conceive in a sinner?

Read exodus and the Old Testament
Anything used for God’s service must be holy, consecrated, and used only for God’s service.

Read about the ark of the covenant!

donadams said:
The same applies to grace, we are not worthy to receive grace, so God made Mary by the immaculate conception worthy to receive all grace for us, and worthy to miraculously conceive of the Holy Spirit and to give birth to our savior and worthy to receive our salvation!
Nowhere found in the Bible. It is just a case of the RCC claiming to have authority over the Bible and above it, and you actually believing them. That was actually demonstrated and settled centuries ago. As to the rest of your post, apply this to it,

Christ established the church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation.

Jesus Christ is our salvation. Lk 2:30
Not just doctrine to be believed, not just a sacrifice, but is in His person even as an infant “our eternal salvation “!

The angel of the Lord declared unto Mary and she conceived “our salvation” of the Holy Spirit!
Matt 1:20-23 Lk 1:35

Mary consented to “our salvation”! Lk 1:38

Found “our salvation” lost by Adam. Lk 1:30

Mother of “our salvation”! Lk 2:30

Thanks

Questions welcome

I am not going to argue Catholicism with you. I might accidently break the rules. In any case it is futile. There are a lot of cultic elements to it and we all know what it takes to break that chain off the mind.

 

[donadams]

1 pet 3: 8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

 

[donadams]

I believe that from God's point of view, there is no broken or improper fellowship--because we are 'In Christ' and when He sees us (typically and in reality), He sees the perfect Lamb of God and the completed work of atonement.

When we who are 'born again' sin, because of our weakness in the flesh and lack of faith, our conscience condemns us and we have a 'sense' of improper fellowship --so we confess our sin and we find that Grace and solace that heals our soul. This is His Grace and Mercy to His children as we are growing up.

The reality, from God's perspective is that we were already forgiven and never fell from that place on the Mercy Seat between the two cherubim. This is where He meets us.

Ex. 25:17 “You shall make a mercy seat of pure gold; two and a half cubits shall be its length and a cubit and a half its width. 18 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat. 19 Make one cherub at one end, and the other cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim at the two ends of it of one piece with the mercy seat. 20 And the cherubim shall stretch out their wings above, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and they shall face one another; the faces of the cherubim shall be toward the mercy seat. 21 You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you. 22 And there I will meet with you,

This is where the Lord meets us. Where the 'blood' was sprinkled and atonement is made. Its interesting what Mary Magdalene saw when she looked into the tomb where Christ lay.

John 20:11 But Mary stood outside by the tomb weeping, and as she wept she stooped down and looked into the tomb. 12 And she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

To me this hearkens back to the Mercy Seat and the two cherubim.

He became the atonement and propitiation for our sins and a once for all high priest to boot. A once for all propitiation and there is now no longer a need for a priest to continually sprinkle the blood between the angels.

Rom. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Are we required to be faithful?

 

[Eleanor]

When we who are 'born again' sin, because of our weakness in the flesh and lack of faith, our conscience condemns us and we have a 'sense' of improper fellowship --so we confess our sin and we find that Grace and solace that heals our soul. This is His Grace and Mercy to His children as we are growing up.

The reality, from God's perspective is that we were already forgiven and never fell from that place on the Mercy Seat between the two cherubim. This is where He meets us.

Those were types, patterns.

We were not, and are not, on the Mercy Seat in those patterns.
That is God's seat, and the Son of God is his mercy.
No one met him there.
The High Priest sprinkled the cleansing blood on the front, not the Mercy Seat, of the Atonement Cover (Lev 16:14).

He met Moses outside the curtain that separated him from the Mercy Seat.
He meets us in faith, wherever we are.

 

[Mr GLee]

Are we required to be faithful?

To what and who?