THE IMPORTANCE OF THE TORAH

[jeremiah1five]

They weren't written to only Jews and Jewish Christians though and that is a fact. And though the gospels are about Jesus and His ministry to the Jewish people, they were not written for only Jewish people but for all people who would read them---including you a Gentile and all the rest of the Gentile believers. And if the letters were written to only Jews, they had to be reminded of a heck of a lot, given all the quotes from the OT, so from where do you get the idea that the only thing they didn't need to be reminded of was the Sabbath keeping?

It wasn't reminding, it was understanding the New Covenant that was upon them. Saul, having the ministry, the training, the education (as well as Apollos and Priscilla to name a couple more) were given authority through these things and their spiritual gifts to see the Law (which is spiritual) with spiritual eyes and make sense from the Hebrew writings what was taking place in Israel. Saul had commission to first Gentile proselytes and God-Fearers and later idol-worshiping Gentiles (who were small in number) to figure out HOW he was to bring Gentiles into the commonwealth of Israel - NOT in their covenants because the covenant is strictly to Abraham's seed and Gentiles do not come from his seed - and this was his problem. But he was successful, never losing sight that the covenants, the prophecies, the promises, their service to God, etc., was strictly to and for the Jews:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth
the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers,
and of whom as concerning the flesh
Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom. 9:3–5.

These encapsulate both "salvation is of the Lord" and "salvation is of the Jews."
NONE of the above belong to, nor were ever given to Gentiles.

The only time I can think of that the Sabbath was even discussed at all, which is more telling than you like to admit, is when it was trying to be imposed on Gentiles by Judaizers. And Paul told them not to judge another by their own behavior, and in regards to celebrations and feasts, that to say they were necessary for salvation was to declare Jesus insufficient.

You don't fully understand what Jesus meant when He said He came to fulfill the Law, not abolish it.
And you do not fully understand the Holy Spirit of Promise as He relates to the Law of Moses. To "abrogate/abolish" the Law is to "abrogate/abolish" the Holy Spirit of Promise. And that is a great heresy and delusion, even great delusion to come upon the world and now is.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The Bible does not say that. Is it perhaps a private revelation? We will be judged by the Book of Life Rev 20:12,15

Have you read all the laws in the Mosaic Law lately. Are you keeping a single one---and I will even let that slide and focus on the Sabbath Laws, all of them----as they are commanded by God to be kept? In your Sabbath keeping, do you keep it in the way God said to keep it, or do you simplify and make it more convenient for yourself? This seems to be the question no one who believes we have to keep the Sabbath, or the festivals or the dietary laws, will answer.

First, it does say that in the Scripture in this prophecy which is packed with a great amount:


1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh,
And thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;
And the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and ethe women ravished;
And half of the city shall go forth into captivity,
And the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations,
As when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives,
Which is before Jerusalem on the east,
And the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west,
And there shall be a very great valley;
And half of the mountain shall remove toward the north,
And half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains;
For the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal:
Yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah:
And the LORD my God shall come,
And all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day,
That the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD,
Not day, nor night:
But it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day,
That living waters shall go out from Jerusalem;
Half of them toward the former sea,
And half of them toward the hinder sea:
In summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth:
In that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem:
And it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place,
From Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate,
And from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction;
But Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people
That have fought against Jerusalem;
Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet,
And their eyes shall consume away in their holes,
And their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day,
That a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them;
And they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour,
And his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem;
And the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together,
Gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse,
Of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass,
And of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations
Which came against Jerusalem
Shall even go up from year to year
To worship the King, the LORD of hosts,
And to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up
Of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem
To worship the King, the LORD of hosts,
Even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain;
There shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen
That come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt,
And the punishment of all nations
That come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses,
HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD;
And the pots in the LORD’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts:
And all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein:
And in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
Zechariah 14:10–21.

In the past Gentiles (non-Hebrews) occupied the land God promised to give to Abraham and his seed. They were called "Canaanites" because they lived in Canaan. But God has promised that He Himself will cleanse the Canaanite identifying Gentiles/non-Hebrews from the Promised land so that for the first time in Israel's history as a people they will occupy their land all by themselves with no Gentiles/Canaanites/non-Hebrews anywhere to be seen for they will occupy the land that surrounds Israel.

This is the Millennium. These cannot be unsaved Gentiles. They would have to be Gentile "Christian." And it is this people that once Satan is loosed from his prison, he will go out to deceive these nations to gather them for one final push against Israel but firs from heaven falls from heaven and devours them all.
And who will be left standing on that day?
Israel.

Touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm, the LORD of Hosts says.

Ay caramba.

 

[Fred]

Disagree.

I know you disagree with what Hebrews 8:13 teaches.

 

[Arial]

According to the Lord's own words obedience to the Law is life eternal as is their inheritance:

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Lk 10:25–28.

The man was right and in being right his birthright grants him eternal life.

Does telling someone what is right, and telling them to do it, mean that they do do it, or even that they can. The man, said something that was right, not that he did what was right. So does his birthright grant him eternal life because he knows what is right?


7 Or do you not know, brothers[a]—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? 2 For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage.[b] 3 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.[c] (Romans 7)

What seems to be missing in your posts is Jesus, His person and work, and you have replaced Him as the central message of the Bible and work of God, with Israel.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I know you disagree with what Hebrews 8:13 teaches.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Heb 8:10–13.

The New Covenant is between God and the house of Israel (Jer. 31:31-34.) Gentiles are not in this covenant nor in any of the covenants with Abram the Hebrew and the children of Israel (Mosaic.) This needs to be established for it it truth upon which to proceed.

Verses 10 through 12 is a reiteration of the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah (31:31-34) and the writer of Hebrews is as the title says writing to the Hebrews also known as the children of Israel through Jacob to Isaac and Abraham.

In verse 13 the writer of Hebrews is quoting someone, but I cannot find this original quotation in any of the Hebrew Scriptures so who is being quoted? What is his authority? And why isn't it in the Hebrew Scripture?
A study of the word "vanish" merely means "disappearance." Figuratively it can mean "abrogation," but in the literal it means "disappearance." And we are dealing with a literal covenant. The word "covenant" was added by the KJV translators. Is this "leading the witness?" Yes, it is. But I am also confident the writer is speaking of a "covenant." But there is margin for error. Israel's "sins" and "iniquities" could be that which is "ready to vanish away" and that is what the effect of the cross did to their sins and iniquities. Not covered, but took away, made them disappear. So, first you're applying figurative meaning to a literal subject/object. Then, you use the word "covenant" as the translators do when the writer can be addressing "sins" and "iniquities." Israel's sins and iniquities have been made to "disappear."

You might think I'm avoiding or overlooking but I am not. These things must be considered when we approach the Word of God and make declarations it means or says one thing but can also be referring to something else entirely. I consider all things. I don't have tunnel vision and present an understanding unless all other understandings have been made to "vanish away" and I am left with the one that is most likely the correct one. I am not trivial with the Holy Scripture.

So, no I don't disagree with Hebrews 8:13. I just don't take out a figurative position when dealing with a literal subject.
Another thing is, just because something is made to disappear does not also mean it no longer exists or it ended. We have Scripture. The Mosaic Law is literal. It's a historical fact. It exists still. The Jews do the utmost to observe the Law in their society except they don't have a Temple. But a Temple is prophesied in Scripture. Revelations and Daniel speak of one to exist before Messiah returns. And Israel will return to their sacrifices and offerings. And there is nothing wrong with that. They are under command to do so. Eternal life is their inheritance. The Mosaic Covenant exists in the way it was originally given when joined to their New Covenant and it's a shame Gentile Christians do not understand this. Let's leave Israel to her salvation covenants. He will save His people whom He foreknew. Each covenant is progressive. the new builds upon the old or last one, and although Gentiles do not understand this when one says the Mosaic Covenant is "abolished" what they effectively do in the same breath is abolish the Holy Spirit of Promise.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Does telling someone what is right, and telling them to do it, mean that they do do it, or even that they can. The man, said something that was right, not that he did what was right. So does his birthright grant him eternal life because he knows what is right?

His birthright allows him to enjoy the Abrahamic Covenant and his blessings. And now that we have the death of a Testator (and a resurrection) nothing can violate his right under covenant to claim his inheritance. It's all a matter of post-probate process in which the will (covenant) is authoritatively decided on as to who gets what by a judge or other assigned authority. That judge is Almighty God.

The "certain man" was a lawyer (of the Law.) He does not in this instance travel with the religious leaders with whom Rabbi Jesus had contention with. So, to me I see this lawyer as one who is obedient to the Law and is a doer. There was no contention of controversy between Jesus and this lawyer, so it appears to have been a friendly chat between two observant rabbi Jews. Not all the Pharisees or Sadducees had conflict with Jesus. The two that were recorded in the good news narrative who didn't were Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea. This lawyer may have been sympathetic to Jesus. Later, in Acts 6 it says a "great company of priests were obedient to the faith." I set "a great company" as a majority of 70 Sanhedrin's, at least 36 of 70. No hard-hearted priest would qualify but only those whose 'hearts' were being prepared for the reality of Acts 6:7.

7 Or do you not know, brothers[a]—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? 2 For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage.[b] 3 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.[c] (Romans 7)

What seems to be missing in your posts is Jesus, His person and work, and you have replaced Him as the central message of the Bible and work of God, with Israel.

Believe me, I could not write about Israel without the central figure of all that Israel is without Jesus. You may see me as giving Jesus a 'back seat' but He is driving the car. And I don't distract from His operating the vehicle and where He is taking "us." In a vehicle with occupants (Israel) don't you usually interact with the occupants as the driver takes you to your destination? I have great comfort in the fact that I am secure in the passenger seat knowing that no matter what happens, Jesus will get me to where I am going and where He is taking me.

 

[Fred]

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/sabbath-or-sunday-what-did-jesus-teach-show-in-scripture.1309/#post-51152

 

[Arial]

His birthright allows him to enjoy the Abrahamic Covenant and his blessings. And now that we have the death of a Testator (and a resurrection) nothing can violate his right under covenant to claim his inheritance. It's all a matter of post-probate process in which the will (covenant) is authoritatively decided on as to who gets what by a judge or other assigned authority. That judge is Almighty God.

The Mosaic covenant promised eternal life with conditions attached. It was a bilateral covenant. It had blessings for full and complete obedience, and it had curses for disobedience. That is why Paul tells us that no one was saved unto eternal life by the Law, but rather the Law condemned them because they were unable to keep it. There sins were only temporarily covered, and that for God's purposes in fulfilling that other covenant with Abraham that was running alongside the land grant covenant with its laws and penal code, which is the new covenant that grants eternal life, not through works of the Law, but by grace through faith, that would go to all the world, breaking down the dividing wall between Jew and Gentile. Jesus fulfilled all the requirements of the OC, that He might bring to fruition the NC. In the millennium---which you see as one thing, and I see as another, and neither of us can say with absolute certainty unless we choose to kid ourselves, that we can see into the mind of God, or that we consider our own understanding to be the voice of the Spirit, Jesus is gathering His people----those God has given Him--- from all the nations and peoples. To me the thousand years is likely the time between Christ's first and second coming. He is reigning now in His people, for nothing can take a single one out of God's hands, and through their preaching the gospel continues to be heard and through it His people called and gathered,

At His second coming, then is the new heaven and the new earth, the new Jerusalem, spiritual Jerusalem as it comes down from Heaven. The consummation of our redemption and all creation restored. God owns all of creation and His purpose is far greater than one nation. It is all of creation itself, and the people who will inhabit it.

 

[Arial]

The "certain man" was a lawyer (of the Law.) He does not in this instance travel with the religious leaders with whom Rabbi Jesus had contention with. So, to me I see this lawyer as one who is obedient to the Law and is a doer.

It doesn't really matter how you see it. That is leaning on your own understanding in order to produce what you call God's word. What matters is what the Bible says in this regard concerning the Law and its requirements. Almost and mostly and some do not gain eternal life. What the Scriptures as a whole tell us is that no man was ever justified by the Law, because we are by nature lawbreakers. All the Law did was wake that realization up. Break one law, one time, and before God you have broken it all. Only One, Son of God, Son of Man, kept it perfectly. Being under the Law does not by itself grant eternal life. Those same Pharisees and Scribes and Sadducees, that Jesus had contention with were also teachers of the Law and and obedient to the Law.

There was no contention of controversy between Jesus and this lawyer, so it appears to have been a friendly chat between two observant rabbi Jews.

It was far from friendly. Jesus actually indicted the man when He said do this and you will have eternal life. No one, not even Christians, ever love God with all their heart and soul and strength and love their neighbor as themselves, all the time and perfectly. It is grace that grants this to the believer as theirs, keeping us from condemnation while we await the fullness of our redemption, through the perfect righteousness of Christ, being IN Him through faith, as they are.

The two that were recorded in the good news narrative who didn't were Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea. This lawyer may have been sympathetic to Jesus. Later, in Acts 6 it says a "great company of priests were obedient to the faith." I set "a great company" as a majority of 70 Sanhedrin's, at least 36 of 70.

This is all speculation and irrelevant to anything.

Believe me, I could not write about Israel without the central figure of all that Israel is without Jesus. You may see me as giving Jesus a 'back seat' but He is driving the car. And I don't distract from His operating the vehicle and where He is taking "us." In a vehicle with occupants (Israel) don't you usually interact with the occupants as the driver takes you to your destination?

What kind of rambling response is this that utterly ignores the passages I gave in post #44 that completely disproves your focus on Israel and that salvation is for Israel only and by the Mosaic covenant Law? You have said this in post #17:

But when God sits on His throne the Law will be the authority in both Hebrew and Gentile societies.
And I wonder how long Gentiles will last since God will cleanse all Gentiles from the Promised Land and this means Gentiles will live in the land surrounding Israel. And if I read Revelation correctly Satan deceives these nations to attack Israel before fire from heaven consumes them all.
Hmmm. I wonder what that's about.
Never mind.
I know.

Even though Romans tells us there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. You here have God showing partiality between Jew and Gentile, when Scripture says He does not. And you have by inference those who Jesus lived and suffered and died for, who God gave to the Son and He delivered out of the kingdom of darkness, now consuming all the Gentiles He redeemed with fire. And yet you do not see that there is something really off, even that could be seen as bigoted and racist, in your claims, and at the center of excluding non-Jews from covenant?

 

[jeremiah1five]

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/sabbath-or-sunday-what-did-jesus-teach-show-in-scripture.1309/#post-51152

Great! Now I don't have to worry about having other gods before me or taking the Lord's Name is vain, among others.
Thank you for that.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The Mosaic covenant promised eternal life with conditions attached. It was a bilateral covenant. It had blessings for full and complete obedience, and it had curses for disobedience. That is why Paul tells us that no one was saved unto eternal life by the Law, but rather the Law condemned them because they were unable to keep it.

The Law of Moses given to the children of Israel is part of the three-fold covenants God made first with Abram the Hebrew, then his descendants the children of Jacob, and later after the kingdom years with the House of Israel (and Judah) called the New Covenant. The Law that God promised to put in the inward parts of the children of Israel as per the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31. Each covenant was not meant to stand alone. Each covenant was God building upon the last in order to get to the New Covenant. The Law God Promised the House of Israel to put in their inward parts is the Law of Moses/God.

There sins were only temporarily covered, and that for God's purposes in fulfilling that other covenant with Abraham that was running alongside the land grant covenant with its laws and penal code, which is the new covenant that grants eternal life, not through works of the Law, but by grace through faith, that would go to all the world, breaking down the dividing wall between Jew and Gentile.

Yes, temporary until the New Covenant:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jer. 31:33–34.

The New Covenant is unilateral. There is no requirement of faith. There is no requirement of anything from the House of Israel. God does the saving - all of Israel from Abraham to the last Hebrew to be born before the Lord returns to His people. There is no covenant like this given to Gentiles. None. But God gave it to Israel. And as Saul said, All Israel shall be saved. Saul understood the covenants. He understood the as I do and many Christians don't, that God's Law was never meant to remain in stone but in fleshly tables of the 'heart.' And by putting His Law in their inward parts would lead and guide Israel from within not without.

Jesus fulfilled all the requirements of the OC, that He might bring to fruition the NC. In the millennium---which you see as one thing, and I see as another, and neither of us can say with absolute certainty unless we choose to kid ourselves, that we can see into the mind of God, or that we consider our own understanding to be the voice of the Spirit, Jesus is gathering His people----those God has given Him--- from all the nations and peoples.

7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing,
But he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
Amos 3:7.

There are His servants to whom God does reveal His mind. And I know for certainty something about the Millennium and even when the Millennium expires. During the Millennium Israel will occupy their Promised Land with God Himself sitting on His throne in Jerusalem. And according to Zechariah God Himself will cleanse the land of Israel of all Gentiles and Israel will have something then they never had in the past: Their own land without Gentiles. This leaves Gentiles to occupy the four quarters of the earth and surrounding Israel. And something else:

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations [Gentiles] which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev. 20:7–9.

This implies that Gentile Christians who were saved in this life will go on into the Millennium and reside in places outside the Promised Land. I don't think these "nations" are unsaved, heathens. What do you think.

To me the thousand years is likely the time between Christ's first and second coming. He is reigning now in His people, for nothing can take a single one out of God's hands, and through their preaching the gospel continues to be heard and through it His people called and gathered,

I don't think He's "reigning in His people." Sin still exists and when one sins, and if they sin more so than others, then they are servants of sin. Then there's the backslidden. Wholly in sin.

At His second coming, then is the new heaven and the new earth, the new Jerusalem, spiritual Jerusalem as it comes down from Heaven. The consummation of our redemption and all creation restored. God owns all of creation and His purpose is far greater than one nation. It is all of creation itself, and the people who will inhabit it.

When you say "our" redemption as in the New heavens and earth and New Jerusalem coming down from heaven is meant for Gentile Christians? I don't think Scripture supports that.
The Promised Land is Israel's. The kingdom of heaven is meant for Jews. What makes you think all this glorious 'stuff' is meant for Gentiles? Where in Scripture is this stated?

Let me say something here which may not be popular at this time, but it is the truth and should be considered. This is what Zechariah says:

1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh,
And thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle;
Zech 14:1–2.

When is this? Armageddon? Or is it when the Millennium expired, and Satan is loosed from his prison? Right now, I think it's Armageddon. When it says "all nations" where are the Gentile Christians? There's no rapture. Gentile Christians will be living in these Gentile nations. Will they also be against Israel? I believe they will. I envision Gentile Christians learning from these two witnesses and other sources that the covenants are Hebrew; the prophecies are Hebrew. Salvation - and all its parts - is of the Jews, that the delusion of Gentile Christians for 1900 years of being told everything about salvation was lost on the Jews because they killed their Messiah and all the covenants, the prophecies, everything that was once Israel is now belonging to the Gentile church. But what if they are wrong?
Abram the Hebrew (Abrahamic), the children of Israel (Mosaic), House of Israel (New Covenant), it all belongs to them. IF these things are true, do you think Gentile Christians will take this truth lying down that they have been wrong 1900 years and everything about God's Redemption has Israel at its center. The Israel-Hamas war. In my lifetime when I was younger this country was totally pro-Israel. Today there is a shift. Americans support Hamas. Mostly the youngsters, the liberal 30-somethings, and their ignorance of world history, their ignorance of what was once important in this country.
At any rate, there's a great deal of change coming soon upon the world and people are calling good, evil, and evil, good. What was right is now wrong, and the wrong is now right. Talk about changing the times and the seasons!

 

[jeremiah1five]

It doesn't really matter how you see it.

Sorry to disappoint but I can say the same to you. But I AM accountable to my Lord in "how I see it" and I see it as true regardless of your unbelief.

That is leaning on your own understanding in order to produce what you call God's word. What matters is what the Bible says in this regard concerning the Law and its requirements. Almost and mostly and some do not gain eternal life.

Abraham and his seed are in a salvation covenant and when all is said and done all Israel shall be saved because of covenant and because of God's promises to this people. I happen to believe in a God who keeps His word and does not lie. You, on the other hand (and it's always the other hand that destroys us) don't believe God keeps His word because for some nearsighted reason you don't accept what promises God gave to Abraham and his seed. You even try to insert yourself in Israel's covenants by taking Galatians 3:29 as proof that by becoming saved your DNA is miraculously changed into a hereditary Jew. That is so laughable. What an incredible position to believe in.

What the Scriptures as a whole tell us is that no man was ever justified by the Law, because we are by nature lawbreakers.

The apostle Saul thinks differently. He declared himself "blameless" which is another way of saying "justified."

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Philippians 3:5–6.

But then Saul was hypocritical for he also said righteousness doesn't come by the law. But here he says it does. So, which is it, Saul?

All the Law did was wake that realization up. Break one law, one time, and before God you have broken it all. Only One, Son of God, Son of Man, kept it perfectly. Being under the Law does not by itself grant eternal life. Those same Pharisees and Scribes and Sadducees, that Jesus had contention with were also teachers of the Law and and obedient to the Law.

One is not a sinner by breaking a Law. Man is not a sinner because he sins. He sins because he is a sinner. The Reformed teach this. Why don't you?

It was far from friendly. Jesus actually indicted the man when He said do this and you will have eternal life. No one, not even Christians, ever love God with all their heart and soul and strength and love their neighbor as themselves, all the time and perfectly.

Oh, there've been times in my worship of God He accepts all my 'heart' and soul and strength, and mind. But that's the kind of worship He's drawn out of me, and it is in Spirit and truth. You are missing out on some deep and serious blessings.

It is grace that grants this to the believer as theirs, keeping us from condemnation while we await the fullness of our redemption, through the perfect righteousness of Christ, being IN Him through faith, as they are.

What do you think the Abrahamic and Mosaic Covenants were if not grace.

This is all speculation and irrelevant to anything.

Says you.

What kind of rambling response is this that utterly ignores the passages I gave in post #44 that completely disproves your focus on Israel and that salvation is for Israel only and by the Mosaic covenant Law? You have said this in post #17:

Even though Romans tells us there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. You here have God showing partiality between Jew and Gentile, when Scripture says He does not.

No condemnation? If death is the penalty for sin and we still die, what's indicated? God's decree is the soul that sins shall die. But wasn't all the sin of the elect paid for on the cross? Then why is there still death which is the penalty for sin. Do you suppose God allows all us sinners to die without condemnation? That can't be. The condemnation for sin is death. If it says, "Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; Ezek. 33:11, what do you suppose is his attitude in the death of the righteous? Ecstasy?

And you have by inference those who Jesus lived and suffered and died for, who God gave to the Son and He delivered out of the kingdom of darkness, now consuming all the Gentiles He redeemed with fire. And yet you do not see that there is something really off, even that could be seen as bigoted and racist, in your claims, and at the center of excluding non-Jews from covenant?

Show me I am wrong. Show me in the Hebrew Scripture where it says God has covenant with Gentiles without misunderstanding the text. I've looked. There's no such thing. There is nowhere in the Hebrew Scriptures where it says, "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, That I will make a new covenant With the house of GENTILES," or "And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee."

Knowing God has no covenant with you does it offend you?

 

[Fred]

Great! Now I don't have to worry about having other gods before me or taking the Lord's Name is vain, among others.
Thank you for that.

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/sabbath-or-sunday-what-did-jesus-teach-show-in-scripture.1309/page-4#post-65521

 

[Arial]

Sorry to disappoint but I can say the same to you. But I AM accountable to my Lord in "how I see it" and I see it as true regardless of your unbelief.

If how you see it is what you regard as truth, then the unbelief I have is in what you regard as truth. Not unbelief in the word of God.

Abraham and his seed are in a salvation covenant and when all is said and done all Israel shall be saved because of covenant and because of God's promises to this people.

There are two covenants made with Abraham's seed. One is a land grant covenant and is bilateral with Laws and a penal code. The other is with all nations, is unilateral, and identified in the New Covenant (Testament) as Jesus. We see these two covenants in Gen 15 and 17. One is a covenant of land and physical descendants and we find later that the land portion came more that 400 years later and had Laws with their penal code attached to it. One of the penalties of disobeying the Law, and in particular, worshiping other gods, was to lose the land. Which they did, with only a remnant being brought back.

The other is a covenant of promise, that would also come through Israel, that would be by the offspring of Sarah and Abraham, Sarah the free woman. The offspring of Hagar, the bond woman, would not bring forth the promise. And the promise we find in the New Covenant (Testament) was Abraham's faith counted as righteousness. Law does not produce righteousness, it shows us what righteousness is.

In the OT much is shadowed by incomplete revelation. Just imagine if you were, for example, a bystander hearing the exchange between God and Abraham. SInce people live in the moment they are in, that is the only moment they can see. You would have no idea what was to come and no idea what the exchange meant in terms of what was to come. However, we have these things fully revealed in the New Testament. It interprets the OT.

So what does the NT have to say about these things that took place between God and Abraham? Paul deals with it directly in Romans 9, as he laments with great sorrow over his fellow Israelites who were given the adoption as God's people. and given the law, the worship and the promises, but did not obviously understand who and what they were pointing to. In vers 5 he says, "To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen."

And then he begins to explain, (interpret) these things regarding Abraham and Sarah and the nation of Israel. 6-8.But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

In verses 9-33, Paul goes into great detail concerning the promise. Rather than quote it all I will point out the pertinent conclusions Paul makes and how he directly interprets the OT and the OC and demonstrates how it leads to the NC.

Verses 22-24 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory--even us who he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

Then he ties it directly to the prophecy in Hosea, 25-26 As indeed he says in Hosea, "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people'; and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.'" :And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' there they will be called 'sons of the living God.'"

In vv 27-29 to Isaiah "And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: 'Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.' And as Isaiah predicted, 'If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, we would have been like Sodom and become like Gomorrah.'

30-32 What shall we say then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone--

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and His Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And your Seed," who is Christ.

Stop stumbling over the stumbling stone.

 

[Arial]

I happen to believe in a God who keeps His word and does not lie. You, on the other hand (and it's always the other hand that destroys us) don't believe God keeps His word because for some nearsighted reason you don't accept what promises God gave to Abraham and his seed.

False accusation and false assertion (it is not always the other hand that destroys us, sometimes on the other hand is the truth as given in and by scripture.) On the other hand, the only thing that you know about what I believe, even though you declare that I do not believe that God keeps His word, even though I do believe that, is that I do not believe the same thing that you do. So does that mean that whatever you believe becomes the word of God? In post #54 I give direct quotes from the scripture on what God has to say about Abraham's seed and his Seed.

You even try to insert yourself in Israel's covenants by taking Galatians 3:29 as proof that by becoming saved your DNA is miraculously changed into a hereditary Jew. That is so laughable. What an incredible position to believe in.

The incredible position is that anyone could read their Bible with comprehension and conclude that DNA has anything to do with salvation or promises. Or to think that anyone believes that by being in Christ they become a hereditary Jew. That is your straw man premise for your entire argument?

I do not insert myself into any covenant. And the promises those in Christ inherit do not pertain to the land grant covenant of Israel, and they are not through that Law. They pertain to adoption as God's covenant people, through the promise given to Abraham of faith counted as righteousness apart from works, of the Law or anything else. I am brought into this covenant relationship by God and in Christ, through faith in Christ. Even the Jew who is in Christ through faith is released from the Law.

Romans 7:1-6 Or do you not know, brothers---for I am speaking to those who know the law--that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives. For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adultress. Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our sinful members to bear fruit to death. But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not the old way of the written code.

The apostle Saul thinks differently. He declared himself "blameless" which is another way of saying "justified."

Not before God it isn't. Do you think Paul was without sin?

But then Saul was hypocritical for he also said righteousness doesn't come by the law. But here he says it does. So, which is it, Saul?

You do realize I hope, that when you say this about Paul, you are undermining the Scripture as being the word of God and making it completely untrustworthy and unreliable for anything except perhaps a book of morals. It also shows, also, that whenever Paul or anyone else in the Bible disagrees with you, you simply call them a liar and promote yourself to the mouth of God. It too, that you do not make use of the whole counsel of God to arrive at your teachings, only select portions of it, which is the sign of a false teaching being put forth. That contradictions are made that would be revealed if weighted against all the Bibles teachings on the subject that are clear. And those contradictions that you make have been revealed by posters again and again.

One is not a sinner by breaking a Law. Man is not a sinner because he sins. He sins because he is a sinner. The Reformed teach this. Why don't you?

I do teach that. What have I said that makes you say I don't? And what has this statement above to do with what it is responding to? But shall I point out the failure of logical thinking in what you way here? It is this: breaking a law of God is sin and the reason man is a lawbreaker is because he is a sinner.

Oh, there've been times in my worship of God He accepts all my 'heart' and soul and strength, and mind. But that's the kind of worship He's drawn out of me, and it is in Spirit and truth. You are missing out on some deep and serious blessings.

Notice that you say there have been "times" when this occurred, and what I said that nobody, not even believers, love God with all their heart, and soul, and strength , and their neighbor as themselves, all of the time and perfectly. Therefore Jesus telling the man to do this and he would inherit eternal life was an indictment, not a friendly chat as you say it was. You jumped right over it and straight into bragging about yourself, really, and what God has done for you, and saying without a speck of knowledge, that He does not do the same for me, and that I am missing out on some deep and serious blessings. As though you were God, and know these things.

On the other hand, it is personal remarks and slander like that that get you into trouble. Not the fact that you communicated them to admin as you would have all believe, and I assume you probably believe yourself. If you post them to me, naturally I read them and other admins may not. So just a caution to dial it back. Remember what your mother taught you. "If you can't say something nice, don't say it at all." To or about anyone. It is possible to have a conversation without throwing stones or knives.

 

[Arial]

When you say "our" redemption as in the New heavens and earth and New Jerusalem coming down from heaven is meant for Gentile Christians? I don't think Scripture supports that.
The Promised Land is Israel's. The kingdom of heaven is meant for Jews. What makes you think all this glorious 'stuff' is meant for Gentiles? Where in Scripture is this stated?

The kingdom of God is not Israel. It is everything. He is King of kings and Lord of lords. He has dominion over everything in heaven and on earth. If He wants to bring non-Jews into His kingdom who are you o man to argue with God. There is no pure Jewish line or Hebrew line and there never was. Even the Seed bearer of every generation is peppered throughout with what you call Gentiles with disdain and scorn (bigotry). Not even David the descendant of Jesus was Jewish or Hebrew but his grandmother Ruth was a Moabite--- a Gentile. This DNA YOU are counting on and probably have no more of than a great number of Gentile believers---and every last one of us traces eventually back to Adam and Eve, and through the loins of Adam came Abraham. You have gained no more ground than the majority of the Jews of Christ's time had gained.

Did Jesus only die for the Jews? Is that how small God's world is?

It is stated all over scripture that all who believe, not only the Jew but also the Greek (Gentile) there is no difference, inherit the kingdom of heaven. Tell me where it says they DON'T.

Show me I am wrong. Show me in the Hebrew Scripture where it says God has covenant with Gentiles without misunderstanding the text.

In other words, if I show you, which I have, you will just say I misunderstand the text. I know God is in covenant with all believers, irregardless of anything but believing in the crucified and risen Christ, because I know what a covenant is in the Bible. Shall I tell you again? Will you listen this time? (Rhetorical)

A personal God who is completely other than what He creates, who is spirit and invisible, whereas what He creates is visible and matter. In order for His creation, in this case man, to have a personal relationship to Him, He must establish a way in which to do this. A personal relationship is different than knowing of Him and of His existence, and certain things about Him, as we see in Romans 1-3. In order for the relationship to be personal, and for God's purposes to be fulfilled in and through this creature, there must be a way of communicating, person to person. God does this through covenant. It does not have to be named as a covenant in order to be one. And His covenant is not only with mankind, but He also has a covenant with creation itself.

His relationship with His covenant people is not the same as that of His governing position as God over all. It is only for those in covenant with Him. In these covenants He reveals who He is to the covenant people. The Israelites were adopted into a covenant. We see what the relationship was. Something new happened with the advent of Jesus and the New Covenant was ratified when He ascended back to the Father, having defeated the power of sin and death over those who would be in covenant with Him. It was prophesied all through the Law and the Prophets. It was said by the prophets that a people who were not His people would be called His people. That is a covenant relationship.

God did not fail to fulfill any promise He gave to the nation of Israel. You like the Jews of Christ's day, do not see or understand their fulfillment, every last one of them, in Christ. You like them, are still looking for an earthly king and a sovereign government in a tiny portion of land upon a vast and wide world.

 

[Arial]

7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing,
But he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
Amos 3:7.

There are His servants to whom God does reveal His mind.

There is no longer an office of Prophet. God now speaks to us through Jesus Christ. (Heb 1)

God does not reveal His mind. He reveals His word. "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law."

Gentile Christians will be living in these Gentile nations. Will they also be against Israel? I believe they will. I envision Gentile Christians learning from these two witnesses and other sources that the covenants are Hebrew; the prophecies are Hebrew. Salvation - and all its parts - is of the Jews, that the delusion of Gentile Christians for 1900 years of being told everything about salvation was lost on the Jews because they killed their Messiah and all the covenants, the prophecies, everything that was once Israel is now belonging to the Gentile church. But what if they are wrong?

What if you are wrong when you say that is what Gentile Christians believe? And you are wrong. The entire premise for you anti-Gentile rant (just as evil as anti Semitism or any other bigotry against people)is wrong, and from that you have created an imaginary and anti-christ to be honest, set of beliefs. You need to go back to the beginning and set aside all the prejudice and bigotry that are blinding the eyes. It is a straw man.

 

[jeremiah1five]

If how you see it is what you regard as truth, then the unbelief I have is in what you regard as truth. Not unbelief in the word of God.

There are two covenants made with Abraham's seed. One is a land grant covenant and is bilateral with Laws and a penal code. The other is with all nations, is unilateral, and identified in the New Covenant (Testament) as Jesus. We see these two covenants in Gen 15 and 17. One is a covenant of land and physical descendants and we find later that the land portion came more that 400 years later and had Laws with their penal code attached to it. One of the penalties of disobeying the Law, and in particular, worshiping other gods, was to lose the land. Which they did, with only a remnant being brought back.

The other is a covenant of promise, that would also come through Israel, that would be by the offspring of Sarah and Abraham, Sarah the free woman. The offspring of Hagar, the bond woman, would not bring forth the promise. And the promise we find in the New Covenant (Testament) was Abraham's faith counted as righteousness. Law does not produce righteousness, it shows us what righteousness is.

Stop stumbling over the stumbling stone.

Where do you get a covenant with "all nations?" The Scripture doesn't record any covenant between God and "all nations" (Gentiles, non-Hebrew.) God has covenant with only ONE people in all Scripture and that is with Abram the Hebrew and a people that will come to be known as Hebrews (those delivered from Egypt) and "Jews" a term used to refer to Hebrews or children of Jacob/Israel.

God's perspective of "all nations" is as follows:

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

[Strong's] nothing: #369 ʾayin as if from a primitive root meaning to be nothing or not exist; a nonentity; generally used as a negative particle.

"Generally used as a negative particle."

You can't get any more negative than "nothing" or "nothingness" and "non-entity."

Vanity of vanities. "All nations" are vanity.

Everyone who is not Hebrew or "Jewish" is nothing. And you're going to take the "nations" in Genesis 15 and 17 as something enough to which God makes covenant with? I suppose you're going to tell me, "they were nothing until God made covenant with them and now, they're something"? It doesn't matter what you think "nations" (Gentiles) are, according to God of Creation they are nothing. And God declares them as "nothing," "waste," "dung."
Deal with it. It's in Scripture. I'm only pointing it out to you because it's the truth and it's important to see as God sees, to say the same thing as God. To do otherwise is to OPPOSE Him.

This perspective of God towards "all nations" that are not Hebrew and in covenant with Him opens up great ramification in the study of His Word for the non-Hebrew Gentile perspective, not only of itself, but also in the grand scheme of God's redemption of people "to be with Him" (Mark 3:14.) Who exactly are the objects of His love? Who exactly are the objects of His redemption, deliverance, and salvation?

But wait! There is more! (said the announcer on the TV advertisement):

4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Gen. 17:3–4.

nations: [#1471] gôy
rarely (shortened) goy, go’-ee; apparently from the same root as [#1465] (gevah) (in the sense of massing.)

The word is singular, meaning one as opposed to gôyim which is plural meaning more than one.
But this gôy (singular) refers to one person and this person is Isaac to whom the promise was made. This gôy does not mean "non-Gentile" in this verse for Gentiles (non-Hebrews) do not come from the loins or seed of Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13.)

The word gôy is also singular in verse 5 and 6.

And the word "kings" is verse 6 refer to the kings of Israel (ten tribes) and Judah (two tribes.) Again, because as Isaiah states non-Hebrew Gentiles are "nothing" to God. And this covenant is between God and Abram the Hebrew and his seed.

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. Gen. 17:10.

God made no covenant to any non-Hebrew Gentile. None. Zip, zero, nada.
The word gôy is also here in verse fifteen and again in the singular referring to Isaac through whom the promise of covenant is given as well as his son, Jacob, the grandson of Abram the Hebrew.

15 And God said unto Abraham, As for Sarai thy wife, thou shalt not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall her name be.
16 And I will bless her, and give thee a son also of her: yea, I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of people shall be of her. Gen. 17:15–16.

Not only this but these verses also declare God's attitude towards the non-Hebrew Gentile "nations" that come from the seed of Noah through Ham and Japheth: They are "nothing" (Isaiah 40:17.)

Furthermore, God is being precise when He says:

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Gen. 17:13–14.

It matters not of anyone born "in thy house," or "bought with money" or of a "stranger" or these that will be "proselytes" that are circumcised for God reiterates the covenant is "in your flesh" meaning Abraham the person and his seed/descendants.

20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
Gen. 17:20–21.

And Abram the Hebrew and his people that shall come from his seed (children of Israel/Jews) are elevated by God above "all nations" which are "nothing" to God:

24 For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year. Ex 34:23–24.

God's attitude towards His covenant people is contrasted against those NOT his people (non-Hebrew Gentiles.)

2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth. Dt 14:2.

This harkens back to Peter who writes to Jewish Christians:

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, fa peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 1 Pe 2:8–9.

Non-Hebrew Gentiles believe these words were written to them, but it is clear Peter as apostle to the Jews is writing to Jewish Christians.

18 And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all his commandments;
19 And to make thee high above all nations which he hath made, in praise, and in name, and in honour; and that thou mayest be an holy people unto the LORD thy God, as he hath spoken. Dt 26:17–19.

But even Israel of twelve tribes should not think more highly than they ought, but to think soberly for God declares:

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Dt 7:5–9.

Now, having rightly divided the Word of Truth you have no response except to reject the Word of the LORD.

 

[Fred]

But even Israel of twelve tribes should not think more highly than they ought, but to think soberly for God declares:

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Said also to those who were Gentiles:

Titus 2:14
Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

 

[Arial]

Where do you get a covenant with "all nations?" The Scripture doesn't record any covenant between God and "all nations" (Gentiles, non-Hebrew.) God has covenant with only ONE people in all Scripture and that is with Abram the Hebrew and a people that will come to be known as Hebrews (those delivered from Egypt) and "Jews" a term used to refer to Hebrews or children of Jacob/Israel.

"My people" is covenant language. Romans 9:22-26


22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25As indeed he says in Hosea,


“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
26“And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”

Hosea 2:18 In that day I will make a covenant for them---23 Then I will sow her for MYself, in the earth, and I will have mercy on her who had not obtained mercy; then I will say to those who were not My people,'You are My people!" And they shall say, 'You are my God!"

Paul interpreted those passages as applying to Jew and Gentile alike.

And the term "Jew" actually comes from Judah not Hebrew/children of Jacob.

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

All nations would include Israel.

Everyone who is not Hebrew or "Jewish" is nothing. And you're going to take the "nations" in Genesis 15 and 17 as something enough to which God makes covenant with? I suppose you're going to tell me, "they were nothing until God made covenant with them and now, they're something"? It doesn't matter what you think "nations" (Gentiles) are, according to God of Creation they are nothing. And God declares them as "nothing," "waste," "dung."
Deal with it. It's in Scripture. I'm only pointing it out to you because it's the truth and it's important to see as God sees, to say the same thing as God. To do otherwise is to OPPOSE Him.

When God says the nations are as nothing to Him (even though He made them and for His glory seen in all the earth, and to serve His purpose) it refers to His sovereignty and power over everything He created. As the entire chapter of Is 40 makes clear. In that chapter as in many places, God is telling us who He is. Read it at repent in sackcloth and ashes. Bow down as Job did when God revealed Himself, and Job proclaimed, "Before I had heard of you, but now I have seen you!" It is time to cease reducing God to Israel in a ethnic, geopolitical. He is over all the Earth and is restoring all the Earth!

This harkens back to Peter who writes to Jewish Christians:

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, fa peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 1 Pe 2:8–9.

Non-Hebrew Gentiles believe these words were written to them, but it is clear Peter as apostle to the Jews is writing to Jewish Christians.

Peter was writing to believing Jews, Christian Jews, not all Jews, not unbelieving Jews. And notice what he says in 9-10 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

So, even though they were Jews, they were not a people, not a people of His possession, on the basis of their ethnicity alone, and were in the kingdom of darkness as are all people until they are brought to life in Christ. The "chosen race, royal priesthood, holy nation, a people of His possession, is not referring to Israel but to those in Christ, Jew and Gentile alike. There is not one savior and one salvation for Jews, and another for Gentiles, with the Gentiles according to you, having no covenant and eventually will attack Israel (geopolitical)and the Savior will burn those He saved up with fire. The Jews Peter was writing to were not saved unto eternal life, not members of His kingdom on the basis of their ethnicity, but on the basis of union with Christ through faith alone. Same as the Gentile. And if the Gentile has no covenant of grace through faith, neither does the Jew. Christ is not divided.

And to say that Gentiles think those words were written to Gentiles is to think that you know what all non Jewish Christians think. Some may simply because they are operating under things they have not yet come to understand. A good many probably don't think of it in those terms at all but see it as what it is. Written for them--- to Christians and for Christians, irregardless of their ethnicity.

Now, having rightly divided the Word of Truth you have no response except to reject the Word of the LORD.

Here are the logical fallacies that remark encroaches on all rolled into one sentence.
ad hominem
appeal to authority (your own)
appeal to emotion
appeal to ridicule
circular reasoning
continuum fallacy
false attribution

You managed to work a bit of this one and a bit of that one (fallacies) into your conclusion----which in effect makes the entire post a bit of a fallacy.