The Hypers

[Hazelelponi]

We're getting off what I think is the topic which is: There is no verse in the Bible the says God loves (favors) the reprobate. I define reprobate as someone who will end up in hell and I define "love" as "volition to favor". If you know of such a verse, put it forward.

You're correct.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

We're getting off what I think is the topic which is: There is no verse in the Bible the says God loves (favors) the reprobate. I define reprobate as someone who will end up in hell and I define "love" as "volition to favor". If you know of such a verse, put it forward.

I will agree with this.

But that verse about the rich young man keeps popping up in my mind.

Maybe that's the fleshly part of my mind.

I have few books on this subject with various teachings.

D.A. Carson
Macarthur
Sproul

Perhaps I need to review.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

It is a parable as you pointed out.

I do not do eschatology as well. I have no interest in it for some reason.

I stand corrected.

After some research and reading about the rich young man it is not a parable.

Jesus had this interaction with the rich man.

Mar 10:17 And as He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and began asking Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
Mar 10:19 “You know the commandments, ‘DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.’”
Mar 10:20 And he said to Him, “Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up.”
Mar 10:21 And looking at him, Jesus loved him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
Mar 10:22 But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.

 

[fastfredy0]

But that verse about the rich young man keeps popping up in my mind.

Well, I agree with you that there is some wriggle room as to whether the "rich guy" was saved or not.

On the saved side you got: good marks for obedience which is a critical indication and Jesus said He loved the guy.

On the unsaved side you have: He's rich and Christ says the odds for rich people are poorer and this guy is linked implicitly to the statement.

If I was on a jury I'd want more evidence.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I stand corrected.

After some research and reading about the rich young man it is not a parable.

Jesus had this interaction with the rich man.

Mar 10:17 And as He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and began asking Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
Mar 10:19 “You know the commandments, ‘DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.’”
Mar 10:20 And he said to Him, “Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up.”
Mar 10:21 And looking at him, Jesus loved him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
Mar 10:22 But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.

.i read the parables, and the stories which read like parables, in 3s. We can look at the preceding and the following parables and see a broader context at play.

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector (Luke 18:9–14) teaches about humility and justification before God. It contrasts a self-righteous Pharisee, who boasts of his righteousness, with a humble tax collector, who seeks mercy and is justified.

This parable sets a thematic stage for the rich young ruler, who approaches Jesus with confidence in his moral obedience but leaves unjustified due to his attachment to wealth, leading Jesus to note that what is impossible for man to do, is possible for God.

This is followed by the parable of the mina and hoarding what was entrusted.

Mark has a similar grouping; the rich young ruler’s story follows Jesus’ teaching on divorce (Mark 10:1–12) and His blessing of the children (Mark 10:13–16).

After the rich young ruler, Mark 10:32–34 describes Jesus predicting His death and resurrection for the third time, as they head toward Jerusalem.

The pattern in both Mark and Luke shows covenantal divorce of the unfaithful from the old Covenant, and coming to Jesus to follow Him with all we have in humility and the New Covenant inauguration or Kingdom parables.

We look at the rich young ruler as a real person with real attachments to material wealth and status, but what's impossible for the young man in his flesh is possible for God. That's a part of the parable - placing faith in the power of God to accomplish what we are unable to accomplish in our flesh.

Whether you want to add spiritual connotation to that (since I don't have money myself I often do) since all scholars often spiritualize spiritual wealth and poverty etc. is up to you but regardless I see hope in it because Jesus reminds God accomplishes what man cannot; eg live perfectly under the law.

And when we recognize Christ in that in truth, we are saved and then come to Him in humility and repentance and ready to do His Work.

 

[makesends]

I wonder at what point does it become semi-pelagian. Which I believe is heresy.

Any religion that compromises the Christian doctrines of original sin and the necessity of divine grace for salvation is heresey as far as I'm concerned.

To me, any doctrine that compromises salvation-entirely-by-grace, is heresy.

 

[makesends]

Can someone explain what we do with this verse....

Mark 10:21 And looking at him, Jesus loved him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Was this just the humanity of Christ that loved this reprobate?

I think it is 'love' in this sort of sense: "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those having been sent to her! How often would I have gathered together your children, the way in which a hen gathers together her chicks under the wings, and you were not willing!"

 

[ElectedbyHim]

I think it is 'love' in this sort of sense: "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those having been sent to her! How often would I have gathered together your children, the way in which a hen gathers together her chicks under the wings, and you were not willing!"

Interesting.

 

[makesends]

Hyper-Calvinism is a term used to describe a theological position that emphasizes God's sovereignty to an extreme degree, often at the expense of human responsibility and the universality of the gospel offer. It's a specific interpretation of Calvinism that برخی critics argue distorts traditional Calvinistic beliefs.

Here's a more detailed explanation:
Core Tenets of Hyper-Calvinism:

• Strong Emphasis on God's Sovereignty:
  Hyper-Calvinism prioritizes God's absolute sovereignty in salvation, often to the point of minimizing human agency and responsibility.
  
  
• Denial of the Gospel Offer:
  Some forms of Hyper-Calvinism deny that the gospel is a genuine offer to all who hear it. They might argue that the gospel is only meant for the elect, and therefore, it's inappropriate to universally call on all to repent and believe.
  
  
• • Withholding Assurance:
    Some Hyper-Calvinists may hesitate to offer assurance of salvation to professing Christians, believing that some might not be among the elect.
  • Limited View of God's Love:
    Hyper-Calvinism can lead to a limited view of God's love, suggesting that God's saving love is only for the elect, not for all.

Key Differences from Traditional Calvinism:

• • Human Responsibility:
    .Opens in new tab
    Traditional Calvinism acknowledges the depravity of man but also emphasizes human responsibility in responding to the gospel. Hyper-Calvinism tends to minimize or deny this responsibility.
  • Universality of the Gospel Offer:
    .Opens in new tab
    Calvinism, while affirming God's sovereignty in election, still emphasizes the call to repentance and faith for all who hear the gospel. Hyper-Calvinism may restrict the offer of salvation to the elect.

Examples of Hyper-Calvinist viewpoints:

• • A belief that preaching the gospel to all is ineffective because God has already chosen who will be saved.
  • A reluctance to invite all to believe in Christ, due to a concern that some might not be among the elect.
  • A view that God's love is limited to the elect, and not extended to those who are not chosen for salvation.

In essence, Hyper-Calvinism is a theological perspective that, while rooted in Calvinistic thought, takes certain aspects of Calvinism to an extreme, potentially leading to a diminished view of God's love, human responsibility, and the scope of the gospel message.

I'm a little curious where you got these definitions from. Some of the things listed seem to me to not even be what some Hyper-Calvinists believe, but what some people consider logical implication of what Hyper-Calvinists believe.

Also, many people I know and love as Calvinists can be called Hyper, by only one or two of the items listed. I would be one who emphasizes God's sovereignty to an extreme degree, often ("often"? —Always!) minimizing human agency. In fact, I deny it, concerning Salvation, and hold to monergistic action in Sanctification, too, BY USE OF (among other things) human 'agency' (whatever that means...). But to me, that doubles-down on human responsibility!

I.e. I don't like the definitions —too vague, too general.