The Hypers

[fastfredy0]

Can someone explain what we do with this verse....

Mark 10:21 And looking at him, Jesus loved him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Was this just the humanity of Christ that loved this reprobate?

I think it's a parable so I wouldn't try to go too deep in an effort to relate each aspect of the story to an explanation or practical purpose.
My guess the purpose of the parable is: "23 Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, “How difficult it will be for those who are wealthy [and cling to possessions and status as security] to enter the kingdom of God!”
I'm not even sure the guy was a reprobate. If he is a reprobate then he is the only reprobate in the Bible that I am aware of the Christ said He loved.

Aside: I don't do parables ...lol ... or eschatology

 

[fastfredy0]

We are like-minded on this.

You know that if you agree with me there's a good chance you're wrong.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

I think it's a parable so I wouldn't try to go too deep in an effort to relate each aspect of the story to an explanation or practical purpose.
My guess the purpose of the parable is: "23 Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, “How difficult it will be for those who are wealthy [and cling to possessions and status as security] to enter the kingdom of God!”
I'm not even sure the guy was a reprobate. If he is a reprobate then he is the only reprobate in the Bible that I am aware of the Christ said He loved.

Aside: I don't do parables ...lol ... or eschatology

It is a parable as you pointed out.

I do not do eschatology as well. I have no interest in it for some reason.

 

[David Lamb]

I think it's a parable so I wouldn't try to go too deep in an effort to relate each aspect of the story to an explanation or practical purpose.
My guess the purpose of the parable is: "23 Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, “How difficult it will be for those who are wealthy [and cling to possessions and status as security] to enter the kingdom of God!”
I'm not even sure the guy was a reprobate. If he is a reprobate then he is the only reprobate in the Bible that I am aware of the Christ said He loved.

Aside: I don't do parables ...lol ... or eschatology

Where are we told that this is a parable? In context, the passage in Mark says:

“Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?" So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. "You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’" And he answered and said to Him, "Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth." Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me."” (Mr 10:17-21 NKJV)

It certainly reads like an actual event, rather than a parable.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

I am sympathetic to those Pastors, how shall I phrase this, that do not stress the doctrines of assurance to a new convert. We do have the parable of the seed falling on rocky ground or in the thorns to consider. Also, one of the main aspects of assurance is obedience and it's a little early to test that.

Brings up an interesting practical question. I have grand kids 4, 6 and 7. The 6 and 7 year olds profess Christ to the point that we believe they are saved. The seven year mentioned a possible desire to be baptized and her parents asked what I thought. We all came to the conclusion that we were "on the fence", but since this is a YES/NO question I think we agreed to wait till she was older. So, to some degree we did not give her assurance.

I have read and heard Pastors tell new converts that they are saved and never to doubt that.

Sign the card, walk to the alter, say this prayer, etc.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

You know that if you agree with me there's a good chance you're wrong.

This is truth, Ha.

 

[fastfredy0]

But God is sometimes said to love those whom he does not approve or justify;

I'd like to see a list of name(s) of people we know are going to hell that we are told God loves.

he is said to love the political virtues; not that they are meritorious of salvation or of grace, but that they have reference to an end of which he approves. In this sense, under various points of view, God loved Aristides and Fabricius,

Seems like a generous version of the definition of God's love for individuals. One would have to explain it in t he light of the following verses:

• Deuteronomy 18:12 For everyone who does these things is utterly repulsive to the Lord;
• Deuteronomy 25:16 For everyone who does such things, everyone who acts unjustly [without personal integrity] is utterly repulsive to the Lord your God.
• Leviticus 20:23; Psalm 2:4-9; Psalm 11:4-5,6; Psalm 11:5; Psalm 58:10a; Proverbs 3:32a; Proverbs 6:16–19; Nahum 1:2; Hosea 9:15; Malachi 1:3-4; John 3:36b; Romans 9:13; Romans 9:22; Revelation 14:10, 11; Revelation 18:20
• Psalm 5:4 For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil [person] dwells with You. 5 The boastful and the arrogant will not stand in Your sight; You hate all who do evil. 6 You destroy those who tell lies; The Lord detests and rejects the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.
• Psalm 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry [with the wicked] every day. KJV
• Psalm 11:5 The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, And His soul hates the [malevolent] one who loves violence. 6 Upon the wicked (godless) He will rain coals of fire; Fire and brimstone and a dreadful scorching wind will be the portion of their cup [of doom]. 7 For the Lord is [absolutely] righteous, He loves righteousness (virtue, morality, justice); The upright shall see His face.
• Habakkuk 1:13 Your eyes are too pure to approve evil, And You cannot look favorably on wickedness.
• 1 Corinthians 16:22 If anyone does not love the Lord [does not obey and respect and believe in Jesus Christ and His message], he is to be accursed.
• Hebrews 1:9 “You have loved righteousness [integrity, virtue, uprightness in purpose] and have hated lawlessness [injustice, sin].
• Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God

Nothing is more absurd than to imagine that anyone beloved of God can eternally perish or shall ever experience His everlasting vengeance. It is the imagination of weak minds that gently coos, “God hates the sin, but loves the sinner.” This statement is a profane lie! Should Noah have had a banner across the side of the ark comforting the drowning rebels with the words, “God hates the sin, but loves the sinner”? There is nothing in man justifying God’s love; there is nothing in God requiring He love man. It is a result of confused thinking to say, “God hates the sin, but loves the sinner.” Sin is not a separate thing that can be hated and punished by itself. Sin is the rebellious choice of a rational creature to despise His Creator and violate His commandments. God hates the actor and activity of this rebel creature. He will send people to hell, not sins. The saying is a profane lie! Author Unknown

 

[fastfredy0]

It certainly reads like an actual even, rather than a parable.

Hmmm ... you make a good point. I rescind my comment that it was a parable.

 

[David Lamb]

Hmmm ... you make a good point. I rescind my comment that it was a parable.

Thanks, and apologies for my typo ("even" for "event", which I've now corrected!)

 

[fastfredy0]

I have read and heard Pastors tell new converts that they are saved and never to doubt that.

Sign the card, walk to the alter, say this prayer, etc.

Well, that's going to far the other way. It might be a little early to get into the doctrine of "assurance" with a new convert unless he asks questions concerning it.
... I wonder if one's assurance would be increased or decreased if he were talking to Joel Osteen ???

 

[ElectedbyHim]

Well, that's going to far the other way. It might be a little early to get into the doctrine of "assurance" with a new convert unless he asks questions concerning it.
... I wonder if one's assurance would be increased or decreased if he were talking to Joel Osteen ???

Increased, live your best life now.

 

[Fred]

Seems like a generous version of the definition of God's love for individuals. One would have to explain it in t he light of the following verses:

• Deuteronomy 18:12 For everyone who does these things is utterly repulsive to the Lord;
• Deuteronomy 25:16 For everyone who does such things, everyone who acts unjustly [without personal integrity] is utterly repulsive to the Lord your God.
• Leviticus 20:23; Psalm 2:4-9; Psalm 11:4-5,6; Psalm 11:5; Psalm 58:10a; Proverbs 3:32a; Proverbs 6:16–19; Nahum 1:2; Hosea 9:15; Malachi 1:3-4; John 3:36b; Romans 9:13; Romans 9:22; Revelation 14:10, 11; Revelation 18:20
• Psalm 5:4 For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil [person] dwells with You. 5 The boastful and the arrogant will not stand in Your sight; You hate all who do evil. 6 You destroy those who tell lies; The Lord detests and rejects the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.
• Psalm 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry [with the wicked] every day. KJV
• Psalm 11:5 The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, And His soul hates the [malevolent] one who loves violence. 6 Upon the wicked (godless) He will rain coals of fire; Fire and brimstone and a dreadful scorching wind will be the portion of their cup [of doom]. 7 For the Lord is [absolutely] righteous, He loves righteousness (virtue, morality, justice); The upright shall see His face.
• Habakkuk 1:13 Your eyes are too pure to approve evil, And You cannot look favorably on wickedness.
• 1 Corinthians 16:22 If anyone does not love the Lord [does not obey and respect and believe in Jesus Christ and His message], he is to be accursed.
• Hebrews 1:9 “You have loved righteousness [integrity, virtue, uprightness in purpose] and have hated lawlessness [injustice, sin].
• Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God

The case of Cornelius as described in Acts 10:1-4.

 

[fastfredy0]

The case of Cornelius as described in Acts 10:1-4.

Are you saying Cornelius was clearly shown to be a reprobate and this is an example of someone who is in hell that God said he loved?
No sure what point you're making.

 

[Fred]

Are you saying Cornelius was clearly shown to be a reprobate and this is an example of someone who is in hell that God said he loved?
No sure what point you're making.

He was unregenerate, but loved by God.

 

[fastfredy0]

He was unregenerate, but loved by God.

I disagree. Cornelius was chosen by God in eternity past to be one of his sheep and thus he was not a reprobate though, like all of us, he was unregenerate at one time.

Again, my point that I think you are addressing is that I am unaware of any REPROBATE that God says He loves.
God loves all those He has chosen for salvation even though they may not as yet been regenerated. It's not like He changes His mind in regard to hating or loving a person when He regenerates a person.

 

[Fred]

I disagree. Cornelius was chosen by God in eternity past to be one of his sheep and thus he was not a reprobate though, like all of us, he was unregenerate at one time.

"Like all of us"....even Christians?

Again, my point that I think you are addressing is that I am unaware of any REPROBATE that God says He loves.
God loves all those He has chosen for salvation even though they may not as yet been regenerated. It's not like He changes His mind in regard to hating or loving a person when He regenerates a person.

Before one is converted can they ever (before conversion) be pleasing to God (Rom. 8:8)?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Scripture does teach the He does hate the reprobate.

Like I said, I am on the fence on this.

Love and hate is just in covenant with God versus not in covenant with God.

Those God loves are His elect, the love is the covenant relationship.

The hate, is to be excluded from the covenant blessings

"Mark 10:21 And looking at him, Jesus loved him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

And we know the rich man was not regenerate."

Jesus loved the rich young ruler, who wasn’t regenerate Luke 18:18-30

But I hink we’re like him now—not with money, but with what God’s given us, like the Gospel and the Gospels assurance when appropriate. Peter said, “Silver and gold have I none, but what I have I give you: in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk” Acts 3:6. I’d share assurance to point to Christ.

The Gospel is like the mina in Luke 19:16–26—we share the riches of what God gives us with the lost. The ruler could’ve repented, since “what is impossible with man is possible with God” Luke 18:27.

So perhaps God loves us even before we repent.... It's us who are wealthy now, and I think this points us to share the Gospel.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

Love and hate is just in covenant with God versus not in covenant with God.

Those God loves are His elect, the love is the covenant relationship.

The hate, is to be excluded from the covenant blessings




Jesus loved the rich young ruler, who wasn’t regenerate Luke 18:18-30

But I hink we’re like him now—not with money, but with what God’s given us, like the Gospel and the Gospels assurance when appropriate. Peter said, “Silver and gold have I none, but what I have I give you: in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk” Acts 3:6. I’d share assurance to point to Christ.

The Gospel is like the mina in Luke 19:16–26—we share the riches of what God gives us with the lost. The ruler could’ve repented, since “what is impossible with man is possible with God” Luke 18:27.

So perhaps God loves us even before we repent.... It's us who are wealthy now, and I think this points us to share the Gospel.

in all honesty, I do not believe anyone can understand divine love or hatred.

So perhaps God loves us even before we repent

I believe this because He knew His elect before the foundations of the world.

 

[Hazelelponi]

in all honesty, I do not believe anyone can understand divine love or hatred.

Only in the framework Ges given us to understand, in the capacity we are able. I think His Covenant relationship with His people best expresses it since it's His crowning Glory.

 

[fastfredy0]

Before one is converted can they ever (before conversion) be pleasing to God (Rom. 8:8)?

We're getting off what I think is the topic which is: There is no verse in the Bible the says God loves (favors) the reprobate. I define reprobate as someone who will end up in hell and I define "love" as "volition to favor". If you know of such a verse, put it forward.