The First Time In Us History That Kids Are Testifying In Court About The Effects Of Climate Change On Their Wellbeing.

[Frank Robert]

In Court Testimony, Climate Scientists Rebuke Montana for Support of Fossil Fuels​

The testimony came during a two-week trial in which 16 young Montana residents are suing the state, alleging that it is violating their constitutional rights by failing to take action on climate change.​

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The plaintiffs, who range in age from 5 to 22, say that climate change is already harming them and their families, and that the state's continued support of fossil fuels will only make the problem worse.​

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The youth charge that the state’s strong preference for fossil fuel development has violated their right, guaranteed under Montana’s constitution, to a clean and healthful environment.Their case, Held vs. Montana, is the first U.S. climate lawsuit led by young people to go to trial, and the first U.S. climate trial grounded in constitutional claims.​

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In their testimony, the climate scientists said that Montana is one of the most vulnerable states to the effects of climate change, due to its high elevation, dry climate, and reliance on outdoor recreation.​

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They said that climate change is already causing more frequent and severe wildfires, droughts, and heat waves in Montana, and that these events are having a devastating impact on the state's environment and economy.​

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The scientists also said that Montana's continued support of fossil fuels is making the problem worse. They said that the state's coal, oil, and gas industries are major emitters of greenhouse gases, which are driving climate change.​

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The plaintiffs' attorneys are asking the court to declare unconstitutional a state law that prevents agencies from considering the effect of greenhouse gases when they issue permits for fossil fuel development.​

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The state is arguing that the law is constitutional and that it is not violating the plaintiffs' constitutional rights.​

The trial is expected to conclude on Friday.​

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Here are some of the key points from the scientists' testimony:​

• Climate change is already having a significant impact on Montana.
• The state's continued support of fossil fuels is making the problem worse.
• The state has a legal obligation to protect its residents from the harmful effects of climate change.
• The state's current climate policies are not adequate.

The plaintiffs' case is the first of its kind in the United States. If the plaintiffs are successful, it could set a precedent for other states and cities that are seeking to hold their governments accountable for the impacts of climate change.​

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[Inertia]

Inhaling forest fire smoke is clearly an issue and scholars of law are watching closely worldwide. Result: TBD

Outside of the court system, hydrogen fuel cell trucks are gaining traction at a rapid pace.

Credit: Volvo
________
.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The plaintiffs, who range in age from 5 to 22, say that climate change is already harming them and their families, and that the state's continued support of fossil fuels will only make the problem worse.​

Chuckle!!! They've obviously been coached very well, and read their script convincingly. 2024 will be an interesting year!!!! Maybe by November they'll have "proved" that Black is actually White.

We've already "proved" that SIN is a good thing, and that righteousness is BAD..

 

[Frank Robert]

Chuckle!!! They've obviously been coached very well, and read their script convincingly. 2024 will be an interesting year!!!! Maybe by November they'll have "proved" that Black is actually White.

The one thing you have right is that it is Satan who is doing the coaching and unfortunately for God's creation he has already won.

Your denial is flying in the face of the overwhelming evidence that climate change is not just happening but has already passed several tipping points thought to be several years in the future. The only sin is our massive selfishness that will bring on the consequences of rising global temperatures that will include massive crop and fishery collapse, the disappearance of hundreds of thousands of species, and entire communities becoming uninhabitable.

We've already "proved" that SIN is a good thing, and that righteousness is BAD..

You are partially correct, our neglect of earth that God has given us to protect has proven that SIN rules.

I find it incredible that there are an estimated 100 Bible verses on protecting the environment yet over 60% of Christians ignore them.

What Does the Bible Say About Taking Care Of The Earth?

Bible verses about Taking Care Of The Earth

www.openbible.info

 

[CrowCross]

Your denial is flying in the face of the overwhelming evidence that climate change is not just happening but has already passed several tipping points thought to be several years in the future.

All we have to do now is ban cows from farting and force children to work in lithium mines so we can make more batteries. Shut down the coal plants.....after all God did put the coal there for us to burn....and turn the bad side of the sun so that it's always away from the earth.
Volcanos, gotta put a cork in them. We should also call upon Bill Gates to dim the sun.

 

[Frank Robert]

All we have to do now is ban cows from farting and force children to work in lithium mines so we can make more batteries. Shut down the coal plants.....after all God did put the coal there for us to burn....and turn the bad side of the sun so that it's always away from the earth.

I wonder what God would say to such statements. My guess is (face-palm). You must have missed the 100+ Bible verses on protecting the environment.

Volcanos, gotta put a cork in them. We should also call upon Bill Gates to dim the sun.

Now you are well beyond BS.

What would happen if were possible to cork the forces that cause volcanoes? Don't you know that those forces would simply build to the point of blowing the cork with such force that it would be much worse than a natural occurrence.

Dimming the sun by putting soot in the atmosphere has been talked about, however, because soot absorbs heat instead of reflecting it, it will warm the planet instead of cooling it..

Some progress to delay and prevent the worse of CC is already being made. Unfortunately, however it is too little too late. I would point you to the 97+% of climate scientists but it would be a waste of my time to do so.

History doesn't repeat it self but it does rhyme. You are simply regurgitating the fossil fuel BS which is the same or similar to BS that the nicotine industry used, not only is it the same BS but it is the same make believe experts who are now trumping the fossil fuel lies and deceits.

Your hackneyed rhetoric is evident from your inability to produce one iota of evidence against climate change.

 

[CrowCross]

I wonder what God would say to such statements. My guess is (face-palm). You must have missed the 100+ Bible verses on protecting the environment.

Then why did God make coal, and gas?

Now you are well beyond BS.

What would happen if were possible to cork the forces that cause volcanoes? Don't you know that those forces would simply build to the point of blowing the cork with such force that it would be much worse than a natural occurrence.

What % of "global warming" is due to volcanos? 0%....25%....50%....75%...100%???

Dimming the sun by putting soot in the atmosphere has been talked about, however, because soot absorbs heat instead of reflecting it, it will warm the planet instead of cooling it..

You do know your buddy Bill Gates doesn't plan on using soot.

Some progress to delay and prevent the worse of CC is already being made. Unfortunately, however it is too little too late. I would point you to the 97+% of climate scientists but it would be a waste of my time to do so.

Yes, it would be a waste of your time.

History doesn't repeat it self but it does rhyme. You are simply regurgitating the fossil fuel BS which is the same or similar to BS that the nicotine industry used, not only is it the same BS but it is the same make believe experts who are now trumping the fossil fuel lies and deceits.

I wish you would stop using "BS" in your post as we all know the "BS" you are posting produces greenhouse gases.

Your hackneyed rhetoric is evident from your inability to produce one iota of evidence against climate change.

After the flood of Noah the ice caps formed...and have been melting ever since. Perhaps a lot slower now.
We also know the sun cycles cause climate change.
We also now the earths wobble causes climate change.

....but your answer is shutting down gas stoves?

 

[atpollard]

Now you are well beyond BS.

Yet what if Solar Cycles (like the ice ages of pre-fossil fuel eras) are responsible for 70% of the climate change and Human “pollution” (to lump fossil fuels, deforestation and a host of green issues together) are only responsible for 30% of the climate change?

Or flip the numbers around, what if the 30% that the Sun is responsible for will still cause climate change irrespective of what humans do?

What lacks support, is the idea that the PROPOSED ANSWERS will actually solve the self-proclaimed problems. They cannot accurately model weather, how can we claim they KNOW what will work for climate change using the same basic models.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

All we have to do now is ban cows from farting and force children to work in lithium mines so we can make more batteries. Shut down the coal plants.....after all God did put the coal there for us to burn....and turn the bad side of the sun so that it's always away from the earth.
Volcanos, gotta put a cork in them. We should also call upon Bill Gates to dim the sun.

The latest "Buzz" (whether true or not is still in question) is that the Electric Vehicle market is tanking as people are finding out the REAL Limitations of their EVs. Government mandates not withstanding, EVs aren't gonna fly in '24.

 

[EarlyActs]

The latest "Buzz" (whether true or not is still in question) is that the Electric Vehicle market is tanking as people are finding out the REAL Limitations of their EVs. Government mandates not withstanding, EVs aren't gonna fly in '24.

Yes and the gov involvement is a horrible disruption of the normal market, too.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I wonder what God would say to such statements. My guess is (face-palm). You must have missed the 100+ Bible verses on protecting the environment.

Now you are well beyond BS.

What would happen if were possible to cork the forces that cause volcanoes? Don't you know that those forces would simply build to the point of blowing the cork with such force that it would be much worse than a natural occurrence.

Dimming the sun by putting soot in the atmosphere has been talked about, however, because soot absorbs heat instead of reflecting it, it will warm the planet instead of cooling it..

Some progress to delay and prevent the worse of CC is already being made. Unfortunately, however it is too little too late. I would point you to the 97+% of climate scientists but it would be a waste of my time to do so.

History doesn't repeat it self but it does rhyme. You are simply regurgitating the fossil fuel BS which is the same or similar to BS that the nicotine industry used, not only is it the same BS but it is the same make believe experts who are now trumping the fossil fuel lies and deceits.

Your hackneyed rhetoric is evident from your inability to produce one iota of evidence against climate change.

Chuckle!!! So how "Green" are YOU gonna be in the coming years?? Do you have your "electric car" yet, have you disconnected from the "Polluting power system" yet, and installed your "Solar panels"?? Tell us about your own personal efforts to be "Carbon free"!!!

 

[Frank Robert]

Then why did God make coal, and gas?

We can not know God's mind. I would guess that God did so when He created the natural order of the universe.

What % of "global warming" is due to volcanos? 0%....25%....50%....75%...100%???

The Earth's climate has experienced natural variations throughout its history and prior to the 1800s any shifts in climate were natural but since human activities have been the main driver of climate change, primarily due to man made activity such as the burning of fossil fuels (like coal, oil, and gas) which produces heat-trapping gases.

You do know your buddy Bill Gates doesn't plan on using soot.

I believe Bill Gates would advise us to listen to the Climatologists that study how climate changes over time best able to interpret long-term weather patterns or shifts in climate

Yes, it would be a waste of your time.

You could have saved time by not telling me something I already know.

I wish you would stop using "BS" in your post as we all know the "BS" you are posting produces greenhouse gases.

If you are unable to back up the claim that I am using BS then you statement is simply more BS

After the flood of Noah the ice caps formed...and have been melting ever since. Perhaps a lot slower now.

There is zero evidence of Noah's flood.

We also know the sun cycles cause climate change.
We also now the earths wobble causes climate change.

Solar cycles, which are natural, involve variations in the Sun's activity. They do have a minimal influence Earth's climate but their impact is relatively small compared to human-induced factors.

....but your answer is shutting down gas stoves?

Where did you get that from?. Regardless, let me clear things clearer for you. The consensus among 97% of Climate scientists is that climate change requires a comprehensive and collaborative approach involving governments, businesses, communities, and individuals. In other words everyone.

I would go into more detail that would be a waste of my time.

 

[Frank Robert]

Yet what if Solar Cycles (like the ice ages of pre-fossil fuel eras) are responsible for 70% of the climate change

That is what the fossil fuel industries pay millions of dollars a year to dupe the public.

Here is a graph of with both human and natural drivers. Even dullards can see that the increase of temperatures skyrockets when "human causes" are included. If you missed it, the natural drivers are represented by the green line at the bottom of the graph.

and Human “pollution” (to lump fossil fuels, deforestation and a host of green issues together) are only responsible for 30% of the climate change

Or flip the numbers around, what if the 30% that the Sun is responsible for will still cause climate change irrespective of what humans do?

I would love to evidence for such an extraordinary claims. The Sagan standard is: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

What lacks support, is the idea that the PROPOSED ANSWERS will actually solve the self-proclaimed problems. They cannot accurately model weather, how can we claim they KNOW what will work for climate change using the same basic models.

It can easily be asserted from the above graft that natural (drivers) factors play a relatively minor warming role.

 

[Frank Robert]

The latest "Buzz" (whether true or not is still in question) is that the Electric Vehicle market is tanking as people are finding out the REAL Limitations of their EVs. Government mandates not withstanding, EVs aren't gonna fly in '24.

It is unfortunate that the industrial complex is capitalizing with such things as EVs. I agree we are not going to solve the dilemma we are in with EVs which offer a minimal improvement if any at all. The best we can do today is less driving. Perhaps sometime in the future we will have hydrogen cars. At present i think hybrids are a better choice over EVs for the environment. Caution. I am not an expert and I can be wrong.

 

[Frank Robert]

Chuckle!!! So how "Green" are YOU gonna be in the coming years?? Do you have your "electric car"
yet, have you disconnected from the "Polluting power system" yet, and installed your "Solar panels"?? Tell us about your own personal efforts to be "Carbon free"!!!

I am semi-retired, we live in a small walk able town. I am addictions psycholgists and see several patients in my home office and also by phone. We have one a hybrid car which we need for shopping, medical app'ts and visting relitives and vacations. I have looked into solar panels and found them inappropriate for our needs. We do have a heat pump air/conditioner/ which we definitely need for the even in FL we are experiencing near freezing weather this winter.

I would not claim I am doing the best I can but we have cut back quite a bit from a previous life with vacation homes and multiple flights between FL and NYC. We also cut back from cruises a year but have cut them, not to same energy, but for medical reasons. Now we take one nearby local cruise a year.

How greem am I;

 

[Bob Carabbio]

It is unfortunate that the industrial complex is capitalizing with such things as EVs. I agree we are not going to solve the dilemma we are in with EVs which offer a minimal improvement if any at all. The best we can do today is less driving. Perhaps sometime in the future we will have hydrogen cars. At present i think hybrids are a better choice over EVs for the environment. Caution. I am not an expert and I can be wrong.

Electric cars have a RANGE problem, and require a LOT OF TIME to re-charge (Rapid charging DAMAGES the battery, which costs as much as a normal car).

Could be that in time, they might make sense, but not today.

Hybrids do make sense, but since I'm NOT GREEN at all, I'll stick with my Conventional autos. I have a '31 Ford that gets me around nicely.

 

[CrowCross]

We can not know God's mind. I would guess that God did so when He created the natural order of the universe.

The Earth's climate has experienced natural variations throughout its history and prior to the 1800s any shifts in climate were natural but since human activities have been the main driver of climate change, primarily due to man made activity such as the burning of fossil fuels (like coal, oil, and gas) which produces heat-trapping gases.

I believe Bill Gates would advise us to listen to the Climatologists that study how climate changes over time best able to interpret long-term weather patterns or shifts in climate

You could have saved time by not telling me something I already know.

If you are unable to back up the claim that I am using BS then you statement is simply more BS

There is zero evidence of Noah's flood.

Solar cycles, which are natural, involve variations in the Sun's activity. They do have a minimal influence Earth's climate but their impact is relatively small compared to human-induced factors.

Where did you get that from?. Regardless, let me clear things clearer for you. The consensus among 97% of Climate scientists is that climate change requires a comprehensive and collaborative approach involving governments, businesses, communities, and individuals. In other words everyone.

I would go into more detail that would be a waste of my time.

Ready your response I can see you're very confused and lost. I can see you accept the narrative with open arms...I bet you were first in line for the jab and yelled at people for not wearing a mask.
Climatologist KNOW the climate can be changed by many reasons. I mentioned some of them and you found a way to deny them.

Do you know how accurate the method of taking temperatures in the beginning of the 20th century were? Do you know what effects a temperature reading? I do.

As to the flood of Noah....there is plenty of evidence. As to Jesus Christ as being the Lord and savior, there is plenty of evidence....thing is you seem to exchange the truth for a lie.

You're right...I would be a waste of your time as I know the truth and won't be pursuaded by you.

 

[Frank Robert]

Ready your response I can see you're very confused and lost.

It's interesting that you are claiming I am lost then go on to assume that I had a particular reactions to Covid. My suggestion is that you need a more accurate Crystal ball.

Climatologist KNOW the climate can be changed by many reasons. I mentioned some of them and you found a way to deny them.

I did not deny them. I put them into two categories and provided a high school level graph separating natural and man made climate change. I even pointed out the bottom line for the man made changes

Do you know how accurate the method of taking temperatures in the beginning of the 20th century were?

Prior to the 1800s any shifts in climate were natural but since human activities have been the main driver of climate change, primarily due to man made activity such as the burning of fossil fuels (like coal, oil, and gas) which produces heat-trapping gases.

Climatologists study how climate changes over time to interpret long-term weather patterns or shifts in climate.

Determining climate change from previous centuries may be difficult but not impossible. Climate scientists use methods and sources of evidence to determine climate change from previous centuries such as proxy data from tree rings, ice cores and sediment cores. Historical Records from thermometers, weather stations, and other instruments. While direct temperature measurements are limited in the more distant past, instrumental records from the late 19th century onward provide a more reliable baseline. These records include data from thermometers, weather stations, and other instruments.

Do you know what effects a temperature reading? I do.

You have a knack for making claims but continually fail to demonstrate in any way or form the veracity of such claims. I would wager that what you think effects temp reading is misinformation straight from the climate denier's manual, such as;

• Climate Change is Natural, Not Caused by Humans
• Global Warming Has Paused or Stopped
• It's Just a Natural Climate Cycle
• Scientists Disagree on Climate Change
• Climate Models Are Unreliable
• Antarctic Ice is Growing, Disproving Global Warming
• Claim: Climate Scientists Manipulate Data

As to the flood of Noah....there is plenty of evidence. As to Jesus Christ as being the Lord and savior, there is plenty of evidence....thing is you seem to exchange the truth for a lie.

What we mean by evidence is something physical. Beliefs are not evidence. Everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs. If you believe that the OT should be taken literally, fine. Most Christians do not take the OT literally, fine. A literal belief of the OT, including Noah's ark is not required for salvation, it's just one more thing that doesn't matter.

You're right...I would be a waste of your time as I know the truth and won't be pursuaded by you.

Like most people I am persuaded by evidence, such as factual information, data, or observations that support or prove a claim that is used to provide a basis for reasoning and drawing conclusions. We tend to make exceptions when it comes to religious beliefs. If there were evidence for religious beliefs we would not have so many religions and denominations.

 

[CrowCross]

It's interesting that you are claiming I am lost then go on to assume that I had a particular reactions to Covid. My suggestion is that you need a more accurate Crystal ball.


I did not deny them. I put them into two categories and provided a high school level graph separating natural and man made climate change. I even pointed out the bottom line for the man made changes

Prior to the 1800s any shifts in climate were natural but since human activities have been the main driver of climate change, primarily due to man made activity such as the burning of fossil fuels (like coal, oil, and gas) which produces heat-trapping gases.

Climatologists study how climate changes over time to interpret long-term weather patterns or shifts in climate.

Determining climate change from previous centuries may be difficult but not impossible. Climate scientists use methods and sources of evidence to determine climate change from previous centuries such as proxy data from tree rings, ice cores and sediment cores. Historical Records from thermometers, weather stations, and other instruments. While direct temperature measurements are limited in the more distant past, instrumental records from the late 19th century onward provide a more reliable baseline. These records include data from thermometers, weather stations, and other instruments.


You have a knack for making claims but continually fail to demonstrate in any way or form the veracity of such claims. I would wager that what you think effects temp reading is misinformation straight from the climate denier's manual, such as;

• Climate Change is Natural, Not Caused by Humans
• Global Warming Has Paused or Stopped
• It's Just a Natural Climate Cycle
• Scientists Disagree on Climate Change
• Climate Models Are Unreliable
• Antarctic Ice is Growing, Disproving Global Warming
• Claim: Climate Scientists Manipulate Data

What we mean by evidence is something physical. Beliefs are not evidence. Everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs. If you believe that the OT should be taken literally, fine. Most Christians do not take the OT literally, fine. A literal belief of the OT, including Noah's ark is not required for salvation, it's just one more thing that doesn't matter.

Like most people I am persuaded by evidence, such as factual information, data, or observations that support or prove a claim that is used to provide a basis for reasoning and drawing conclusions. We tend to make exceptions when it comes to religious beliefs. If there were evidence for religious beliefs we would not have so many religions and denominations.

Let me say it this way....there is no proof that man is changing the planets temperature..and if we are to a point to become all worried over it to the point where we are being made to make the riduculas changes imposed upon us.

 

[Frank Robert]

Let me say it this way....there is no proof that man is changing the planets temperature..and if

There you go again. You are entitled to believe anything you want regarding climate change without evidence but don't expect anyone to find you seriously without well-established scientific evidence.

we are to a point to become all worried over it to the point where we are being made to make the riduculas changes imposed upon us.

Unfortunately for us and the fate of earth Climate Tipping Points Are Closer Than Once Thought. Exceeding 1.5 degrees Celsius of global warming could trigger several climate tipping points and lead to irreversible climate impacts. A new analysis shows 2023 exceeded 1.5C of warming on average for the first time, a key limit in the Paris Climate Agreement. Those who think climate change is a hoax should be careful for what they wish for. The U.S. was hit with a record 28 billion-dollar weather and climate disasters in 2023. These events resulted in an estimated 492 lives lost and over $93 billion in damages. 2023 marks the first time on record that every day within a year has exceeded 1°C above the 1850-1900 pre-industrial level. Close to 50% of days were more than 1.5°C warmer then the 1850-1900 level, and two days in November were, for the first time, more than 2°C warmer. Keep complaining about the ridiculous changes that no one is being forced to make. Such choices may soon be unavailable.