The End Time sequence of Events...

[Hobie]

What is coming, what does the Bible tell us and in what sequence. Well, the James Webb Space Telescope shows a interstellar object in space heading for our solar system at light speed, and we see wars and rumors of wars and nations preparing alliances much as before WWI and WWII, and much of leaders gathering on peace talks, what does the Bible tell us? Scripture tells us of a “sudden destruction”, we find it in 1 Thessalonians 5:3..

1 Thessalonians 5:3
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

This is not a local or limited event such as Gaza or 9/11, but what will certainly be a world changing or cataclysmic event. What are we given next, lets look.
Revelation 13:11-17
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Then we have the “Image of the Beast” which is a political power that begins to compelling observance of or compliance with a law, or obligation, of a religious nature, I think every one has heard or knows the words “Christian Nationalism” by now. We do not need to look far to see the implementation of the image in the news, with leaders in Cabinet position, Supreme Court, of the Senate and Congress being filled by followers of the original Beast. So the image of the Beast, has been readied, I don’t think I need to say more as we watch it rise and its laws implemented.

Then will come the Close of Probation and the sealing of the 144000. the time such as never was, the Seven Last Plagues, and the 'false christ' showing up before the Second Coming of Christ.

So where are we now in the sequence as we see the Image clearly forming and 'Peace and Safety' coming from the top, and what do we have coming to the time of the end.

We have already begun with the signs with the fires and floods and pandemic but there is worse to come as we see the new world order unite saying its to combat these events, but there purpose is for a different reason. Revelation describes the whore of Babylon and we see that the leaders of this world will unite and give their power and support to the this AntiChrist power, apostate church, and then this new world order will be in a position ready to enforce the mark of the beast.

Revelation 17:17
For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

The Mark of the Beast will be enforced by what can only be the force of law on the whole world and people will have to choose. Revelation 13 tells us that the mark of the beast will be enforced upon the whole world ...
Revelation 13:16
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

The new world order governments will unite in convincing the world that the mark of the beast will be the "solution" to the world's problems, much as we see with these laws on 'climate change'. They will convince the world that all these troubles are the judgments of God because of us not following Him and then insert the deception of what they want the world to do.

 

[Hobie]

Now before anyone chooses for or against the mark of the beast, God, through His remnant on earth will send a final message to the world. This message contained in the three angel's messages of Revelation 14 is God's last call of mercy to the world.

Revelation 14:8-11
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
'
So the choice as to receiving the Mark of the Beast comes now and probation closes. Once everyone have made their decision for the mark of the beast or the seal of God, then the door of mercy will close and everyone will be judged either righteous or filthy ...
Revelation 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Then we shall see a time of trouble, like we have newer seen before, the great tribulation prophesied in Daniel..
Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Then come Seven Last Plagues as now that everyone has decided which side they will follow, either that of Christ or the beast, God's final judgments can begin to fall upon this world, in the form of the seven last plagues. These plagues will be the wrath of God..
Revelation 14:10
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Revelation 14:19
And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Then will come the Battle of Armageddon which is the final world battle and will happen when Jesus Christ returns,,,
Revelation 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

We will then have the second coming of Christ will be a world wide, visible event as He comes with all His angels. Jesus will return in unimaginable glory to deliver His people. There will be no secret rapture like so many believe, as the Bible clearly states that EVERY EYE will see Jesus return, and that His second coming will be a seen and heard by the whole world.
Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

We will then have the Resurrection of the saints lying asleep in the graves and the 144,000 living saints at the second coming, the graves will burst open and the righteous will rise up and together with the saints who have gone through the great tribulation and are still alive, will meet Jesus in the air ...
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Now this is the 'first resurrection' and the wicked or the rest of the dead (lost sinners) will not live again until the 1000 years are over ...
Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The saints and the 144,000 go to heaven with Christ and His angels and only after 1000 Year Millennium in heaven does the New Jerusalem come down to earth, and the wicked burn in the lake of fire. Contrary to what many have been told, we do not spend the 1000 years on earth wandering about with the wicked...

Revelation 20:6-8
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

After the 1000 years in Heaven, we return to this earth in the New Jerusalem and the wicked are resurrected and Satan gathers them together to fight and take the New Jerusalem ...
Revelation 20:9-10
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So the wicked are thrown into the lake of fire, where they are consumed and cease to exist in the second death, and even Satan himself is finally destroyed and will cease to exist.
Revelation 20:14-15
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[EarlyActs]

What is coming, what does the Bible tell us and in what sequence. Well, the James Webb Space Telescope shows a interstellar object in space heading for our solar system at light speed, and we see wars and rumors of wars and nations preparing alliances much as before WWI and WWII, and much of leaders gathering on peace talks, what does the Bible tell us? Scripture tells us of a “sudden destruction”, we find it in 1 Thessalonians 5:3..

1 Thessalonians 5:3
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

This is not a local or limited event such as Gaza or 9/11, but what will certainly be a world changing or cataclysmic event. What are we given next, lets look.
Revelation 13:11-17
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Then we have the “Image of the Beast” which is a political power that begins to compelling observance of or compliance with a law, or obligation, of a religious nature, I think every one has heard or knows the words “Christian Nationalism” by now. We do not need to look far to see the implementation of the image in the news, with leaders in Cabinet position, Supreme Court, of the Senate and Congress being filled by followers of the original Beast. So the image of the Beast, has been readied, I don’t think I need to say more as we watch it rise and its laws implemented.

Then will come the Close of Probation and the sealing of the 144000. the time such as never was, the Seven Last Plagues, and the 'false christ' showing up before the Second Coming of Christ.

So where are we now in the sequence as we see the Image clearly forming and 'Peace and Safety' coming from the top, and what do we have coming to the time of the end.

We have already begun with the signs with the fires and floods and pandemic but there is worse to come as we see the new world order unite saying its to combat these events, but there purpose is for a different reason. Revelation describes the whore of Babylon and we see that the leaders of this world will unite and give their power and support to the this AntiChrist power, apostate church, and then this new world order will be in a position ready to enforce the mark of the beast.

Revelation 17:17
For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

The Mark of the Beast will be enforced by what can only be the force of law on the whole world and people will have to choose. Revelation 13 tells us that the mark of the beast will be enforced upon the whole world ...
Revelation 13:16
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

The new world order governments will unite in convincing the world that the mark of the beast will be the "solution" to the world's problems, much as we see with these laws on 'climate change'. They will convince the world that all these troubles are the judgments of God because of us not following Him and then insert the deception of what they want the world to do.

Sorry but I find that this misses a lot. The Rev text said it was about things that would happen right away on its first page, twice.

The Thess material is very direct--expecting the total end of the world in that time, as most other NT passages did, including I Cor 7 which advises against marriage because of that.

Mt 24A (before v29) is about 1st century Judea, then after 'these things' the worldwide wrath was expected, as mentioned above. It did not occur because God has redemptively delayed, says 2 Peter 3.

Islam is much more of a daunting threat at this time, and is also totalitarian. We should be resisting totalitarianism of any kind.

The Christian nationalism remark is off base, too. In fact, that is how globalism should be resisted. Acts 17 says all nations were appointed their times and boundaries, a line that comes from Deut 32. Like the US Constitution, it is best if this nationalism is Christian, not secular. This has been the case since Hus resisted the Holy Roman Empire.

Speaking of, we should note that the 16th century had the combined evils of Islam, the Black Plague, the HRE and the Little Ice Age. So far as I know, the death toll of western Europe, where Christian faith was expanding, was some 2/3 of the starting population figure. And yet here we are now.

 

[CrowCross]

We will then have the second coming of Christ will be a world wide, visible event as He comes with all His angels. Jesus will return in unimaginable glory to deliver His people. There will be no secret rapture like so many believe, as the Bible clearly states that EVERY EYE will see Jesus return, and that His second coming will be a seen and heard by the whole world.

The way I see it Jesus comes with His saints....that would be us...not the angels at this time.

Rev 17:14 They will make war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will triumph over them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and He will be accompanied by His called and chosen and faithful ones.”

Rev 19: 14 The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. 15 And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

Rev 3:5 5 Like them, he who overcomes will be dressed in white. And I will never blot out his name from the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and His angels.

 

[EarlyActs]

Sorry but I find that this misses a lot. The Rev text said it was about things that would happen right away on its first page, twice.

The Thess material is very direct--expecting the total end of the world in that time, as most other NT passages did, including I Cor 7 which advises against marriage because of that.

Mt 24A (before v29) is about 1st century Judea, then after 'these things' the worldwide wrath was expected, as mentioned above. It did not occur because God has redemptively delayed, says 2 Peter 3.

Islam is much more of a daunting threat at this time, and is also totalitarian. We should be resisting totalitarianism of any kind.

The Christian nationalism remark is off base, too. In fact, that is how globalism should be resisted. Acts 17 says all nations were appointed their times and boundaries, a line that comes from Deut 32. Like the US Constitution, it is best if this nationalism is Christian, not secular. This has been the case since Hus resisted the Holy Roman Empire.

Speaking of, we should note that the 16th century had the combined evils of Islam, the Black Plague, the HRE and the Little Ice Age. So far as I know, the death toll of western Europe, where Christian faith was expanding, was some 2/3 of the starting population figure. And yet here we are now.

Did a new post disappear?

 

[durg]

The way I see it Jesus comes with His saints....that would be us...not the angels at this time.

Rev 17:14 They will make war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will triumph over them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and He will be accompanied by His called and chosen and faithful ones.”

Rev 19: 14 The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. 15 And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16 And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

Rev 3:5 5 Like them, he who overcomes will be dressed in white. And I will never blot out his name from the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and His angels.

Saints are angels. There's no need for resurrected humans to return. The word SAINTS indicates angels - Jesus returns with his angels.

There are disagreements over who the "saints" are that Jesus comes back with at his return. Pre-trib believers say it includes resurrected people who were raptured before the tribulation. Some post-trib believers think the resurrection happens while Jesus returns in the clouds after the tribulation, AND the resurrected "saints" then come back down to earth with him as he comes to Armageddon. Both of these theories are false. It's not that difficult to see that the saints whom Jesus comes back with are ONLY His holy angels.

Jesus returns with all his Saints
ZECHARIAH 14:3-5
Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives... And you shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal: yes, you shall flee, like you fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the SAINTS with you.

1 THESSALONIANS 3:13 To the end he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

JUDE 14-15 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints. To execute judgment upon all...

Here are a few issues - NOT ALL!

First, the righteous dead who will rise at the rapture are all raised on the LAST DAY! not 7 YEARS BEFORE. (John 6:39-40; 6:44; 6:54; 11:24).

Second, it would mean that Jesus has to come at least three times in all, once to suffer and die, once to translate (or rapture) the church before the tribulation, and again on the last day for Armageddon.

Nowhere does scripture teach a third coming of Jesus. On the contrary. The Parousia is mentioned 4 times in Mathew 24 in V.3, 27, 37, and 39.

PAROUSIA is also 'singular' in 1 Corinthians 1:7; 1 Thessalonians 3:13; 4:1), 1 Corinthians 15:23; 1 Thessalonians 2:19; 1 John 2:28). Notice they are all in the singular!

These scriptures show Jesus is coming back with his "saints." The big question is, "who are the saints"? I can answer that in my next reply if you like.

 

[CrowCross]

Saints are angels. There's no need for resurrected humans to return. The word SAINTS indicates angels - Jesus returns with his angels.

Wow, that is wrong. Saints are not angels. Which of the denominations teach that?

Second, it would mean that Jesus has to come at least three times in all, once to suffer and die, once to translate (or rapture) the church before the tribulation, and again on the last day for Armageddon.

Jesus came the first time to suffer and die as you said.
The second time will be in the air pre-trib.
The actual second coming will be at the end of the 7 year trib and prior to the 1,000 year reign.

 

[durg]

Wow, that is wrong. Saints are not angels. Which of the denominations teach that?

Jesus came the first time to suffer and die as you said.
The second time will be in the air pre-trib.
The actual second coming will be at the end of the 7-year trib and prior to the 1,000-year reign.

I keep telling you guys my beliefs are not tied to any church.

The OT word for saints implies ANGELS. qadîš is Strongs #6922 and it clearly implies angels in Zech 14:5..
H6922 - qadîš - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

The other OT word for saint also implies angels...
קָדוֹשׁ qâdôwsh, kaw-doshe'; or קָדֹשׁ qâdôsh; from H6942; sacred (ceremonially or morally); (as noun) God (by eminence), an angel, a saint, a sanctuary:—holy (One), saint.

In the NT the word for saint is the same word as holy.

The passage in question is this one....Zech 14:5

To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
So now take a look at this link and click on and notice THIS at the bottom of the page...

H6918 - qāḏôš - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

c. angels, Psalm 89:6; Psalm 89:8; Job 5:1; Job 15:15; Zechariah 14:5; Daniel 8:13 (twice in verse).

 

[durg]

To clarify how the word SAINTS is used in 1Thes. 3:13.

"To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints."

b. of persons whose services God employs; as for example, apostles, Ephesians 3:5; angels, 1 Thessalonians 3:13; Matthew 25:31 [Rec.]; Revelation 14:10; Jude 1:14; prophets, Acts 3:21; Luke 1:70 (Wis. 11:1);

 

[CrowCross]

To clarify how the word SAINTS is used in 1Thes. 3:13.

"To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints."

b. of persons whose services God employs; as for example, apostles, Ephesians 3:5; angels, 1 Thessalonians 3:13; Matthew 25:31 [Rec.]; Revelation 14:10; Jude 1:14; prophets, Acts 3:21; Luke 1:70 (Wis. 11:1);

Matt 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose.....are you saying dead angels came to life?

 

[durg]

No. The word doesn't imply angels everywhere. Strongs and Thayer's show us where and I posted that info I believe.

Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[EarlyActs]

No. The word doesn't imply angels everywhere. Strongs and Thayer's show us where and I posted that info I believe.

Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matt 24A is clearly about that 1st century situation. I have historical training on that, to support that. That runs to v29. After that they expected the world to end, ie, to be redone beyond recognition; not something on this earth. You will find this in both the Thess letters and 2 Peter 3.

Best not to get too invested in a belief about something that hasn’t actually happened yet. Not when you can dwell on historical truth.

 

[CrowCross]

No. The word doesn't imply angels everywhere.

That's good. You were making it seem as if it did.

BTW....why did you say....."Saints are angels. There's no need for resurrected humans to return. The word SAINTS indicates angels - Jesus returns with his angels."

 

[Arial]

These scriptures show Jesus is coming back with his "saints." The big question is, "who are the saints"? I can answer that in my next reply if you like.

Scripturally I see the "saints" according to what is given in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4:13-18. They are the resurrected bodies who have died before his return and the changed bodies of those who are alive when he returns. They rise to meet him in the air and return with him in his final victory. This would correlate with the customs of the day, and particularly with those of the OT. A king went out to battle enemies and if he was victorious, he returned with his victorious army. The inhabitants of the city he returned to, his subjects who he reigned over, prepared a great victory celebration, went out to meet him and returned with him, with shouts of joy and victory. There was feasting and celebration of the victory. (The wedding supper of the bridegroom?)

 

[EarlyActs]

Scripturally I see the "saints" according to what is given in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4:13-18. They are the resurrected bodies who have died before his return and the changed bodies of those who are alive when he returns. They rise to meet him in the air and return with him in his final victory. This would correlate with the customs of the day, and particularly with those of the OT. A king went out to battle enemies and if he was victorious, he returned with his victorious army. The inhabitants of the city he returned to, his subjects who he reigned over, prepared a great victory celebration, went out to meet him and returned with him, with shouts of joy and victory. There was feasting and celebration of the victory. (The wedding supper of the bridegroom?)

They have been accumulating since the beginning, according to Heb 11. If He said we would be with him at death, then we can assume He would be with them for the monumental day in question.

 

[CrowCross]

Scripturally I see the "saints" according to what is given in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4:13-18. They are the resurrected bodies who have died before his return and the changed bodies of those who are alive when he returns. They rise to meet him in the air and return with him in his final victory. This would correlate with the customs of the day, and particularly with those of the OT. A king went out to battle enemies and if he was victorious, he returned with his victorious army. The inhabitants of the city he returned to, his subjects who he reigned over, prepared a great victory celebration, went out to meet him and returned with him, with shouts of joy and victory. There was feasting and celebration of the victory. (The wedding supper of the bridegroom?)

Yes, some see this "king went out to battle and returned" scenario....
But, I see a better scenario.

John 14:2 tells us....In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

This follows the Jewish engagement/wedding procedure of that time.

To sum it up....The bridegroom would pay a dowery to the brides father. This represents the ransom that Jesus paid on the cross for His bride, the church.

The bridegroom would then leave and go to his father house and build a room for his bride..this represents John 14:2...I go to prepare a place for you.

At an unknown time the bridegroom would return for his bride and take her to his father's house....This is the resurrection/rapture of the church.

Then there would be a feast....which is the marriage supper of the lamb in heaven in which the Lord and Savior Christ Jesus has prepared for His bride.

Got Questions goes into more details.

The returning king scenario seems to fall short as it can't be built around biblical meaning.

 

[Arial]

Yes, some see this "king went out to battle and returned" scenario....
But, I see a better scenario.

"Better" is relative. It is determined by what one prefers. I don't consider it better and I don't consider that the Bible actually teaches a removal of believers from the earth at his return. Which is what you base (the particular bias) your interpretation on. It teaches that his return is him coming to us. With us is where he was before the ascension. With us is where and who he returns to.

John 14:2 tells us....In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

This was spoken directly to the apostles as a comfort and strengthening for them as he was soon to leave them. Does that mean his words were not true, or that there are not literally places prepared for them? Of course not. But to infer that he is speaking about a rapture of the saints from the earth at his second coming is confirmation bias interpretation. The ones he spoke those words to were not raptured out of the earth. They all died and were buried. and are awaiting the resurrection.

This follows the Jewish engagement/wedding procedure of that time.

To sum it up....The bridegroom would pay a dowery to the brides father. This represents the ransom that Jesus paid on the cross for His bride, the church.

The bridegroom would then leave and go to his father house and build a room for his bride..this represents John 14:2...I go to prepare a place for you.

At an unknown time the bridegroom would return for his bride and take her to his father's house....This is the resurrection/rapture of the church.

Though this is the cultural betrothal and marriage tradition, I believe you have added something to it that does not exist within the scriptures and did not exist in the culture. That of the bridegroom returning for his bride at an unknown time. Also Got Questions is always biased towards the Dispensational view of asked about end times, as though it is written in stone and all other views are wrong.

The returning king scenario seems to fall short as it can't be built around biblical meaning.

It is built around biblical meaning, steeped in historical OT customs and traditions. Just as you have done with the wedding tradition. It is more accurate imo because:

• Jesus is a King (King of kings and Lord of lords).
• He has been doing battle with his enemies since war on them was declared in Gen 3:14-15.
• He won a victory of defeating their power over his people on the cross.
• The war has continued against Christ the King and his church since his ascension.
• His army on earth (believers) continue to multiply his church through the preaching of the word and righteous living until his return.
• When he returns it is in victory and final judgment of the unrighteous and full conquering of and destruction of Satan, that serpent of old.

War won and over. The victory is manifest in all the earth with the resurrection and changing of his people, those he died for. As promised. So, when they rise to meet him in the air (1 Thess 4), where do they go? On past him? Or are they the victorious army returning with the victorious King in celebration of the victory? The wedding of Christ and his bride and the wedding feast. Nothing about it falls short. The wedding of Christ and his bride the church follows a war of many battles, won. Victory!

 

[CrowCross]

"Better" is relative. It is determined by what one prefers. I don't consider it better and I don't consider that the Bible actually teaches a removal of believers from the earth at his return. Which is what you base (the particular bias) your interpretation on. It teaches that his return is him coming to us. With us is where he was before the ascension. With us is where and who he returns to.

This was spoken directly to the apostles as a comfort and strengthening for them as he was soon to leave them. Does that mean his words were not true, or that there are not literally places prepared for them? Of course not. But to infer that he is speaking about a rapture of the saints from the earth at his second coming is confirmation bias interpretation. The ones he spoke those words to were not raptured out of the earth. They all died and were buried. and are awaiting the resurrection.

Though this is the cultural betrothal and marriage tradition, I believe you have added something to it that does not exist within the scriptures and did not exist in the culture. That of the bridegroom returning for his bride at an unknown time. Also Got Questions is always biased towards the Dispensational view of asked about end times, as though it is written in stone and all other views are wrong.

It is built around biblical meaning, steeped in historical OT customs and traditions. Just as you have done with the wedding tradition. It is more accurate imo because:

• Jesus is a King (King of kings and Lord of lords).
• He has been doing battle with his enemies since war on them was declared in Gen 3:14-15.
• He won a victory of defeating their power over his people on the cross.
• The war has continued against Christ the King and his church since his ascension.
• His army on earth (believers) continue to multiply his church through the preaching of the word and righteous living until his return.
• When he returns it is in victory and final judgment of the unrighteous and full conquering of and destruction of Satan, that serpent of old.

War won and over. The victory is manifest in all the earth with the resurrection and changing of his people, those he died for. As promised. So, when they rise to meet him in the air (1 Thess 4), where do they go? On past him? Or are they the victorious army returning with the victorious King in celebration of the victory? The wedding of Christ and his bride and the wedding feast. Nothing about it falls short. The wedding of Christ and his bride the church follows a war of many battles, won. Victory!

If you wanna teach your "king return" scenario...go for it.

I don't really intend to argue the point with you. I've presented my point....in the mansion scenario.
I think it fits better and you don't. So, leave it there.

 

[EarlyActs]

"Better" is relative. It is determined by what one prefers. I don't consider it better and I don't consider that the Bible actually teaches a removal of believers from the earth at his return. Which is what you base (the particular bias) your interpretation on. It teaches that his return is him coming to us. With us is where he was before the ascension. With us is where and who he returns to.

This was spoken directly to the apostles as a comfort and strengthening for them as he was soon to leave them. Does that mean his words were not true, or that there are not literally places prepared for them? Of course not. But to infer that he is speaking about a rapture of the saints from the earth at his second coming is confirmation bias interpretation. The ones he spoke those words to were not raptured out of the earth. They all died and were buried. and are awaiting the resurrection.

Though this is the cultural betrothal and marriage tradition, I believe you have added something to it that does not exist within the scriptures and did not exist in the culture. That of the bridegroom returning for his bride at an unknown time. Also Got Questions is always biased towards the Dispensational view of asked about end times, as though it is written in stone and all other views are wrong.

It is built around biblical meaning, steeped in historical OT customs and traditions. Just as you have done with the wedding tradition. It is more accurate imo because:

• Jesus is a King (King of kings and Lord of lords).
• He has been doing battle with his enemies since war on them was declared in Gen 3:14-15.
• He won a victory of defeating their power over his people on the cross.
• The war has continued against Christ the King and his church since his ascension.
• His army on earth (believers) continue to multiply his church through the preaching of the word and righteous living until his return.
• When he returns it is in victory and final judgment of the unrighteous and full conquering of and destruction of Satan, that serpent of old.

War won and over. The victory is manifest in all the earth with the resurrection and changing of his people, those he died for. As promised. So, when they rise to meet him in the air (1 Thess 4), where do they go? On past him? Or are they the victorious army returning with the victorious King in celebration of the victory? The wedding of Christ and his bride and the wedding feast. Nothing about it falls short. The wedding of Christ and his bride the church follows a war of many battles, won. Victory!

Re removal from earth
If a completely different NHNE is the end location of God with his people at the end of the Rev, and 2P3, then yes, we are removed from this earth.