The Arminianist Charismatic: Why Some Abandon Their Faith

[Arial]

It is important to notice the word "their" in the title.

The predominant answer to the question by both Reformed/Calvinist and those factions of Arminianism that believe salvation cannot be lost, is to say "They were never really saved, never really believed." While this is a true statement, can an actual defense of the statement be made biblically? IOW, is there scripture that affirms, with substance presented (not just the quote), that it is actually impossible for one who is genuinely saved to become "unsaved"?

The R/C can use John 10:25-29 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe, the works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."

The Arminianist, be he Charistmatic or not, cannot use that verse because he alters the scripture to support his denial of election and predestination. Usually simply by quoting another scripture that when removed from all context, (surrounding, historical, full counsel of God); standing alone appears to say that anyone who wants to come to Jesus, can come to him. Such as the verse in John 3:16 "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." Saying that demonstrates our choice in the matter, ignoring all that Jesus had said in John 3:1-15 and everything that came after.

The biblical substantiation for a Christian never losing their salvation is found only in a rightly defined and exegesis of the Doctrines of Grace in R/C.

My particular focus in this OP of the Charismatic branch of Arminianism was prompted by my attention being brought to a You Tuber, Timmy Gibson. He was born into and raised Pentecostal. He was "saved" at age seven when he, according to his own words, "invited Jesus into his heart". He was groomed by the Pentacostal organization to be a youth pastor and ordained when he was very young. His interviews and videos say he was a pastor for thirty years. At some point he started his own church near Kansas City, Ks.

 

[CrowCross]

@Arial
Can one lose their salvation? I say no. You presented one of the verses above. You can't be snatched.

As to abandoning your faith.....does that mean you lost salvation or simply returned back to your un-saved lifestyle? Some call it backslidden... Still saved but at the Bema seat judgement will receive no or little rewards as your christian "life" will be burnt up....He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames. (1 Cor 3:15)

 

[Arial]

@Arial
Can one lose their salvation? I say no. You presented one of the verses above. You can't be snatched.

As to abandoning your faith.....does that mean you lost salvation or simply returned back to your un-saved lifestyle? Some call it backslidden... Still saved but at the Bema seat judgement will receive no or little rewards as your christian "life" will be burnt up....He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames. (1 Cor 3:15)

No a person who has been saved by God cannot lose their salvation.

If someone were to claim that you can, what do you suppose would be their arguments supporting loss of salvation, and how would you counter them, beyond just quoting the Scripture? What support would you give to the scripture you use that would refute the ones they used?

As to abandoning your faith.....does that mean you lost salvation or simply returned back to your un-saved lifestyle? Some call it backslidden... Still saved but at the Bema seat judgement will receive no or little rewards as your christian "life" will be burnt up....He himself will be saved, but only as if through the flames. (1 Cor 3:15)

By abandoning their faith in this OP I am dealing with completely departing from what they had once claimed to believe. The actual gospel in its soteriology aspects. How we get saved.

Returning back to one's unsaved lifestyle may be an indication but no one but God can see what is in their heart. Only he knows whether or not he has changed that heart and brought them to genuine faith. Therefore, it is not the place of any human to judge whether what they see is having never believed or if it is a season God is allowing them or even decreeing, that they go through to serve his purposes. Often, it produces a stronger faith because on the inside, the person is just wrestling (flesh against spirit, environment, situation),and on the inside they are convicted of their sin by the Holy Spirit and in their heart they grieve but tenaciously cling to God. (There was a time in my own life because of all the parentheticals in that last sentence, that the most I could do was a number of times a day I cried out to him, "God I know I only breathe because you give me breath."). He brought me out of it much stronger.

As to 1 Cor 3:15 I take issue with the wording of "backsliding" will cause his Christian life to be burned up. Maybe it just needs better clarification, but to do so would change the subject. As would me explaining why I disagree with the term "backsliding" to describe sins that may not be fully put to death. It is enough to just believe the words of Paul and leave it at that, without having to decide exactly what that would look like.

 

[CrowCross]

No a person who has been saved by God cannot lose their salvation.

I never said they could. In fact I said the exact opposite of the claim you made for me.

As to 1 Cor 3:15 I take issue with the wording of "backsliding" will cause his Christian life to be burned up.

I was referring to what they did or didn't do for the glory of God through out the saved portion of their life.

 

[Arial]

Can one lose their salvation?

No a person who has been saved by God cannot lose their salvation.

I never said they could. In fact I said the exact opposite of the claim you made for me.

If you cannot carry on a decent conversation with me without resorting to putting words in my mouth and being accusatory, then don't respond to my posts at all.

 

[CrowCross]

If you cannot carry on a decent conversation with me without resorting to putting words in my mouth and being accusatory, then don't respond to my posts at all.

Please stop twisting what i say.