So if we understand all Prophecies and Scripture, Doctrine.., what more do we need?

[jeremiah1five]

I think you are a bit off on your assessment to say the least.
Romans 3:30
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

I find it most ignorant and self-serving that wherever in Scripture the word "Gentile" or "uncircumcision" is found Gentiles immediately think of a uncircumcised, non-covenant, idol-worshiping Roman, Scythian, or Greek Gentiles instead of the obvious circumcised proselyte or uncircumcised God-Fearer. Both the proselyte and God Fearer were closest to the commonwealth of Israel, being citizens, allied, and obedient to the Torah, for they would be in the synagogues on a normal sabbath and hear the witness and testimony of a Jewish Christian who became born-again and told of their experiences with the Holy Spirit of Promise and whatever testimony was said of this Jesus of Nazareth who died on a tree. Unless the context is specifically mentioning an idol-worshiping Gentile then it is speaking about proselytes and God-Fearers.

Below Saul is speaking about proselytes and God-Fearers:

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom. 3:27–31.

And there you have it. The Law/Torah of God is not "abolished" or "obsolete" but is still to be obeyed by those that love God and His Christ. Jesus obeyed the Torah. His disciples obeyed the Torah even after they became born-again. They understood it in time as Judaism Completed and now that they became spiritual Israel along with thousands and thousands of other Jews who became born-again and saved by their Savior, their obedience, albeit, perfect obedience to the Torah was accomplished in and through the Holy Spirit of Promise.

 

[Mr GLee]

Show me in the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets God made covenant with Gentiles, and I will include them in covenant with God

Show me in the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets where and when God made covenant with Jew that was passed down from the Gentiles?

Abel the first martyr, apostle sent with prophecy. The Holy Spirt used Abel the second born to represent all born again mankind. The spiritual seed Christ. Abel was murdered and replaced by another second born Seth . Again to represent our new birth .

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Five generations latter Abraham was grafted into the bride of Christ.

Luke 3:34 Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor,

Esau like Cain had no value in the unseen thing of Christ sold his birthright for a cup of hairy goat soup. Onan spilled it out having no desire to worship a God not seen . God is not a Jewish man as King of kings.

When do you think the Jewish brothers and sisters were grafted in the the born again family of our Holy Father ?

 

[Mr GLee]

I find it most ignorant and self-serving that wherever in Scripture the word "Gentile" or "uncircumcision" is found Gentiles immediately think of a uncircumcised, non-covenant, idol-worshiping Roman, Scythian, or Greek Gentiles instead of the obvious circumcised proselyte or uncircumcised God-Fearer. Both the proselyte and God Fearer were closest to the commonwealth of Israel, being citizens, allied, and obedient to the Torah, for they would be in the synagogues on a normal sabbath and hear the witness and testimony of a Jewish Christian who became born-again and told of their experiences with the Holy Spirit of Promise and whatever testimony was said of this Jesus of Nazareth who died on a tree. Unless the context is specifically mentioning an idol-worshiping Gentile then it is speaking about proselytes and God-Fearers.

How does a gentile think different than a Jew. . . is it in thier DNA? ?

I would offer. . Be careful how we hear who we say we do .Many false prophets, bringing false prophecy as oral traditons of dying mankind .

Remember not all Israel are born again Israel or in the same way the new name the father in Isiah 62 promised to name his bride, Christian. .

Christian, literally with no other meaning added. Residents of the invisible city of Christ prepared for his one bride the church named after her founder and husband Christ.

A more befitting name to name the bride of all the nations of the world .

Not all of Christians are Christian in the same way. Both names are interchangeable A Jew is not one after the flesh but is one after the Holy Spirt that dwells in all the families of the world

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Word of God not the oral traditons of dying mankind

 

[Hobie]

I find it most ignorant and self-serving that wherever in Scripture the word "Gentile" or "uncircumcision" is found Gentiles immediately think of a uncircumcised, non-covenant, idol-worshiping Roman, Scythian, or Greek Gentiles instead of the obvious circumcised proselyte or uncircumcised God-Fearer. Both the proselyte and God Fearer were closest to the commonwealth of Israel, being citizens, allied, and obedient to the Torah, for they would be in the synagogues on a normal sabbath and hear the witness and testimony of a Jewish Christian who became born-again and told of their experiences with the Holy Spirit of Promise and whatever testimony was said of this Jesus of Nazareth who died on a tree. Unless the context is specifically mentioning an idol-worshiping Gentile then it is speaking about proselytes and God-Fearers.

Below Saul is speaking about proselytes and God-Fearers:

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom. 3:27–31.

And there you have it. The Law/Torah of God is not "abolished" or "obsolete" but is still to be obeyed by those that love God and His Christ. Jesus obeyed the Torah. His disciples obeyed the Torah even after they became born-again. They understood it in time as Judaism Completed and now that they became spiritual Israel along with thousands and thousands of other Jews who became born-again and saved by their Savior, their obedience, albeit, perfect obedience to the Torah was accomplished in and through the Holy Spirit of Promise.

It is everywhere in the Bible, need to read what it tells us...
Acts 15:1-19
1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

 

[jeremiah1five]

It is everywhere in the Bible, need to read what it tells us...
Acts 15:1-19
1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

The issue is salvation. Obedience to God's Torah does not bring salvation. And that's what the Judaizers like Peter, James, and others originally taught. But one obeys the Torah because Jesus declared "if you love me obey my commandments" and if one disobeys or teaches the Torah of God is "abolished" or "obsolete" then that person is showing hatred for God and His Christ and His Torah, a Torah that instructs in how God is to be worshiped and how brethren are to live together amongst themselves. It is the same Torah that God will use to judge the nations and His people. It is the same Torah by which His people will live under in the Millennium and in eternity. But once we are born again, we need the Torah to guide and instruct us in how we are to order our lives. Train up a child in the way he should go applies once a person becomes born again. And after we are born again the Torah is put in our inward parts so that we might not sin against God. The Torah to the born-again believer is for instruction in righteousness so that we may be perfect (complete) throughly furnished unto all good works. Without the Torah we are a ship without a rudder and destined to lean upon our own understanding in the vanity of our minds.

 

[Mr GLee]

The issue is salvation. Obedience to God's Torah does not bring salvation. And that's what the Judaizers like Peter, James, and others originally taught. But one obeys the Torah because Jesus declared "if you love me obey my commandments" and if one disobeys or teaches the Torah of God is "abolished" or "obsolete" then that person is showing hatred for God and His Christ and His Torah, a Torah that instructs in how God is to be worshiped and how brethren are to live together amongst themselves. It is the same Torah that God will use to judge the nations and His people. It is the same Torah by which His people will live under in the Millennium and in eternity. But once we are born again, we need the Torah to guide and instruct us in how we are to order our lives. Train up a child in the way he should go applies once a person becomes born again. And after we are born again the Torah is put in our inward parts so that we might not sin against God. The Torah to the born-again believer is for instruction in righteousness so that we may be perfect (complete) throughly furnished unto all good works. Without the Torah we are a ship without a rudder and destined to lean upon our own understanding in the vanity of our minds.

Hi You used the word Torah more than 10 times . Is it limited to the first five books of the Bible or is there a oral Torah as part of it ?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Hi You used the word Torah more than 10 times . Is it limited to the first five books of the Bible or is there a oral Torah as part of it ?

The Torah is the Law. That's what Torah means. All 613.

 

[Hobie]

I find it most ignorant and self-serving that wherever in Scripture the word "Gentile" or "uncircumcision" is found Gentiles immediately think of a uncircumcised, non-covenant, idol-worshiping Roman, Scythian, or Greek Gentiles instead of the obvious circumcised proselyte or uncircumcised God-Fearer. Both the proselyte and God Fearer were closest to the commonwealth of Israel, being citizens, allied, and obedient to the Torah, for they would be in the synagogues on a normal sabbath and hear the witness and testimony of a Jewish Christian who became born-again and told of their experiences with the Holy Spirit of Promise and whatever testimony was said of this Jesus of Nazareth who died on a tree. Unless the context is specifically mentioning an idol-worshiping Gentile then it is speaking about proselytes and God-Fearers.

Below Saul is speaking about proselytes and God-Fearers:

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom. 3:27–31.

And there you have it. The Law/Torah of God is not "abolished" or "obsolete" but is still to be obeyed by those that love God and His Christ. Jesus obeyed the Torah. His disciples obeyed the Torah even after they became born-again. They understood it in time as Judaism Completed and now that they became spiritual Israel along with thousands and thousands of other Jews who became born-again and saved by their Savior, their obedience, albeit, perfect obedience to the Torah was accomplished in and through the Holy Spirit of Promise.

Well, lets just say they werent Jewish by lineage to say the least...

 

[jeremiah1five]

Well, lets just say they werent Jewish by lineage to say the least...

If you're speaking about Gentiles, you are correct.
Scripture records the covenant with Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and his seed and Gentiles are not his seed.
All three covenants (Abrahamic, Mosaic, New) were made with the Hebrew people also known by the descendant name of Children/House of Israel

 

[Hobie]

If you're speaking about Gentiles, you are correct.
Scripture records the covenant with Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and his seed and Gentiles are not his seed.
All three covenants (Abrahamic, Mosaic, New) were made with the Hebrew people also known by the descendant name of Children/House of Israel

And yet they will be in the kingdom and some with 'linage' weeping and gnashing...
Matthew 8:11-12
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Luke 13:28
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

 

[jeremiah1five]

And yet they will be in the kingdom and some with 'linage' weeping and gnashing...
Matthew 8:11-12
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Luke 13:28
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Which kingdom? Northern, southern, heaven?
Identify the children. Which tribe or tribes?

 

[Hobie]

Which kingdom? Northern, southern, heaven?
Identify the children. Which tribe or tribes?

Well, if you don't know, need to study your Bible...

 

[jeremiah1five]

Well, if you don't know, need to study your Bible...

YOU SAID:
And yet they will be in the kingdom and some with 'linage' weeping and gnashing...

Matthew 8:11-12
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Luke 13:28
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

RESPONSE: What kingdom? Jesus begins with the kingdom of heaven and ends with the kingdom of God which are two different 'things.'

So, how do you understand it is what I'm asking.

 

[Hobie]

YOU SAID:
And yet they will be in the kingdom and some with 'linage' weeping and gnashing...

Matthew 8:11-12
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Luke 13:28
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

RESPONSE: What kingdom? Jesus begins with the kingdom of heaven and ends with the kingdom of God which are two different 'things.'

So, how do you understand it is what I'm asking.

They are one and the same, Christ comes to take us to heaven where His Fathers house is with our masions, this is the Kingdom and until the New Jerusalem comes down after the 1000 years is where the saints will be.

 

[jeremiah1five]

They are one and the same, Christ comes to take us to heaven where His Fathers house is with our masions, this is the Kingdom and until the New Jerusalem comes down after the 1000 years is where the saints will be.

Convoluted response:
Who's "us"? Who's "our"? Who's the "saints"?
So, let me clarify.

- The kingdom of heaven is the kingdom that will come down from heaven, specifically, New Jerusalem where the Jews will be.
- The kingdom of God is within you. The kingdom of God is Christ Himself, a Person.
- The saints as identified in the Old Testament is Israel. They are a holy nation (Deut. 7:6-9.)