Six Problems Inherent in Dispensational Premillennialism, Part 6: Compromises in Core Doctrine

[Josheb]

Dispensational Premillennialism compromises historical, orthodox core Christian doctrine.

This is perhaps the most problematic, the most egregious of the problems inherent within Dispensational Premillennialism. These problems occur in the arenas of Theology, Christology, soteriology, ecclesiology, and perhaps other doctrinal areas beside eschatology. When reading leading Dispensationalists like Lewis Sperry Chafer (the founder of Dallas Theological Seminary), his successor Charles Caldwell Ryrie, or Michael Vlach (to name only three) it becomes clear they are aware of the problems, aware of the criticisms both within and outside their theological camp. There is, on occasion, some attempt to acknowledge and address the problems, but the attempts are superficial at best.

Here's a brief list of some of the conflicts. The first has to do with the open elevation of eschatology and ecclesiology as preeminent doctrines. For 19 centuries eschatology was considered a minor doctrine, so minor that the historical record of discussion and debate on the subject is very sparse until the Restoration Movement. For most of Christian history the doctrine was a fairly settled matter with Amillennialism considered the orthodox position and Postmillennialism and Idealism simply variations on the historical position. Although Historical Premillennialism is the oldest formalized view, it has much more in common with the other views than it has in common with Dispensationalism. In Dispensationalism the eschatology is predicated on a scripturally unfounded assertion: God has two completely different peoples with two completely different purposes and two completely outcomes or objectives. This, in turn, has led to what might possibly be the single greatest division and topic of debate currently being had within Protestantism; the problem of whether or not scripture is continuous or discontinuous, with the historical and orthodox view being overwhelmingly in favor of the continuity of scripture. Dispensationalism invented dispensations and de facto teaches the dispensations are unrelated (although they may or may not overlap).

These departures have resulted in fundamental changes in the historically more important doctrines of Theology (the nature of God), Christology, and soteriology. Theologically, Dispensational Premillennialism implicitly, inescapably, asserts a God who wants His creation to fall into depravity, a God who wants His ecclesia to become impotent and need rescue, a God who wants history to defy, disobey, and repudiate the cultural mandate and great commission. Christologically, Dispensational Premillennialism denies Jesus is currently King, Lord, and High Preist over all creation (he will not be king over all the earth until he physically comes to earth and physically establishes his kingdom on the earth). This is a fundamentally different Jesus than the one asserted in scripture, a radically different Christ than that held by the entirety of orthodox Christianity for 2000 years.

In regard to soteriology, many leading Dispensationalists (like Chafer and Ryrie) articulate a fairly monergistic classic Reformed view of salvation BUT they also espouse two paths to salvation, not one. By claiming there are two peoples with two purposes Dispensational Premillennialists have also espoused two different paths to coming to Christ salvifically, even as they espouse one salvation by grace through faith. Some modern futurists are synergists, and this is a growing influence within the sects arising following the Restoration Movement. Whether claiming to be monergist or synergist, they espouse one means of salvation for those of the Church, and another for the Jews in nation of Israel. The Jew in Israel must go through a series of accomplishments before being brought to faith in Christ. Those accomplishments include recapturing all the original land promised to Abraham, building a new temple, re-instituting the Mosaic Law, reconstituting the Levitical priesthood, and returning to animal sacrifices. Simply put, these are all works, and they are predicate works; works that must be accomplished before the Jews in the nation of Israel can and will be brought to salvific faith in Christ. This is not salvation by grace through faith for works (as espoused in Ephesians 2). This is salvation by works plus grace for faith; a radically different soteriology than anything ever asserted in the entire history of orthodox Christendom!




Dispensational Premillennialism compromises core orthodox Christian doctrine.

 

[Arial]

Everything that these posts have put forth as to the problems inherent in Dispensationalism have been demonstrated by the Dispensationalists that have responded. Most prominent imo the point made about dissociation in Part 4. The ways of disconnection and moving away from the biblical view of soteriology and eschatology or from Scripture period, are not seen by them as applying to their view. IOW they can't see it.

 

[Josheb]

Oops! I forgot to list one more place where core doctrine is compromised: Imminence! Imminence says Jesus could return at any time. Since its inception, for thousands of years, Christianity has asserted position that Jesus could return at any moment. Dispensational Premillennialism, while claiming Jesus can return at any moment, teaches a series of events will occur first and then and only then will Jesus return If these events do not happen, or do not have to happen the DPism falls apart and is unsustainable. In DPism Israel has to first re-obtain all the physical land promised Abraham, re-establishing its original boundaries, fulfilling its restoration of the land. It must also rebuild a temple and do all those things listed in the opening post. At a very minimum, if we assumed the modern geo-political nation-state of Israel is the forerunner of a restored Israel then it will be years before all those events occurred. Jesus cannot return for several years. That is a huge compromise on historical orthodox Christianity's doctrine of Imminence.

 

[Arial]

@CrowCross

Another way in which there is no accountability in their doctrine, self accountability and accountability within the community, is that they state the beliefs as absolute fact as though everybody knows it is true and those who don't are sadly in the dark and need to grow up. When asked to give biblical proof that there is a rapture, a seven year tribulation and a literal thousand year restoration of Israel, they never do so.

On occasion they will quote a few scriptures---I think there are two or three main ones having to do with "caught up" and various prophecies such as Dan 9 that they have already interpreted according to their presuppositions when there are other possibilities. What they never ever do is ask themselves the question and go find the answer, in the scriptures, "What did Jesus come to do?"

Implicit in their belief is that Jesus came to save national, ethnic, geopolitical, Israel. And the church as they call Gentile believers is just a secondary reason. An after thought so to speak. A blessing added to Israel the nation and people.

Gen 3 in the curse on the serpent and first promise of redemption, "The seed of the woman will crush your head..." and the fruition of that promise in Rev 21:1-6 never comes into consideration as to what Jesus came to do and what He did and is doing. IOW they do not even bother to be accountable to the word of God. And no dispensationalist whether on forums or otherwise ever holds themselves or their "comrades" accountable for this blatant disrespect and mishandling of the word of God.

 

[CrowCross]

When asked to give biblical proof that there is a rapture, a seven year tribulation and a literal thousand year restoration of Israel, they never do so.

Where have you been? All along I've been talking about 1 Thes 4:16ish.....the 1,000 years mentioned several times and presented as literal in Rev 20 as well as Daniels 70th week also know as the time of Jacobs trouble. The bible teaches the "clock was stopped" at the end of week 69 and there is one more week or "7 years" left on Gods timescale. The 7 years is not an unfounded piece of theology. There are thousands upon thousands of book, articles, podcast, video's etc. on that topic.

 

[Arial]

Where have you been? All along I've been talking about 1 Thes 4:16ish.....the 1,000 years mentioned several times and presented as literal in Rev 20 as well as Daniels 70th week also know as the time of Jacobs trouble. The bible teaches the "clock was stopped" at the end of week 69 and there is one more week or "7 years" left on Gods timescale. The 7 years is not an unfounded piece of theology. There are thousands upon thousands of book, articles, podcast, video's etc. on that topic.

As long as there are thousands upon thousands of books, articles, podcasts, video's etc on the topic I guess I will believe it. Not. For you to say this, tells me clearly that you are from a psychological standpoint, utterly unable to understand what I was saying in that post. All those things do exactly what I was saying. And I say this in a descriptive way not as a personal insult---it is as though there is a dead spot in the brain that won't receive or send certain signals.

 

[prism]

For 19 centuries eschatology was considered a minor doctrine, so minorst that the historical record of discussion and debate on the subject is very sparse until the Restoration Movement.

Too bad 27% of the Bible was ignored.(Perhaps due to persecutions, suppression of reading the bible by Rome, the Battle over Justification by Faith Alone, Pietism etc.)

In DPism Israel has to first re-obtain all the physical land promised Abraham, re-establishing its original boundaries, fulfilling its restoration of the land.

That sounds more like Post Mill, rather than the Kingdom Christ sets up AFTER His return. (during His Millennial reign).

It must also rebuild a temple and do all those things listed in the opening post.

Tribulation Temple occupied by the anti-Christ..

(2Th 2:4) who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

 

[Josheb]

@CrowCross

Another way in which there is no accountability in their doctrine, self accountability and accountability within the community, is that they state the beliefs as absolute fact as though everybody knows it is true.....

That is true. On the rare occasion when any diversity is acknowledged the alternatives are usually misrepresented. An objectively observable example of this is the use of full-preterism as the basis for criticism of all preterism when anyone and everyone with letter after their name knows the full-pret population is both a statistical and normative outlier. They do the same thing with Replacement Theology. Another example is when Dispensationalism divides up scripture into dispensations it removes them from the covenants. Not only is "covenant" the term scripture itself uses, but from its inception Christians always spoke of "dispensation" within the context of covenant. When Dispensationalists seek to legitimize Dispensationalism with appeals to the ECFs they are misrepresenting the scripture, the ECFs, and the entire history of Christianity. They appeal to post-scriptural and extreme sources to argue, "See, Dispensationalism has a historical existence before John Darby," never acknowledging the fact cults and pseudepigraphic source justify nothing. Each of these are examples where historical and orthodox Christian thought, doctrine, and practice are either diluted, misrepresented, or adulterated.

And everyone one of them is also an example where there's no accountability, too. They are conscious of these problems and do nothing about it. As a consequence, the common believer thinks what they're hearing from the pulpit/classroom/radio is orthodoxy when it is not.

 

[Josheb]

Too bad 27% of the Bible was ignored.(Perhaps due to persecutions, suppression of reading the bible by Rome, the Battle over Justification by Faith Alone, Pietism etc.)

That sounds more like Post Mill, rather than the Kingdom Christ sets up AFTER His return. (during His Millennial reign).

Tribulation Temple occupied by the anti-Christ..

(2Th 2:4) who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

I recommend you read the ops in this board that pertain to the prospective building of the temple, the sacrifice of red heifers, the mark, the tribulation and more. Most of them are written by modern futurists asserting contradictions with historical orthodox Christianity. It's orthodox Dispensationalism, but it's not orthodox Christianity. A visit to any Eschatology board in any Christian forum will show more of the same.

 

[Alive]

pseudepigraphic

I learned a new word...thanks.

 

[Alive]

articulate a fairly monergistic classic Reformed view of salvation BUT they also espouse two paths to salvation, not one. By claiming there are two peoples with two purposes Dispensational Premillennialists have also espoused two different paths to coming to Christ salvifically, even as they espouse one salvation by grace through faith.

This is the second main problem I had with Dispensationalism. Its clearly not honoring scripture.

 

[Eleanor]

Oops! I forgot to list one more place where core doctrine is compromised: Imminence! Imminence says Jesus could return at any time. Since its inception, for thousands of years, Christianity has asserted position that Jesus could return at any moment.

Which Paul addressed and corrected. . .

There can be no second coming until the man of lawless is revealed (2 Th 2:3-8).

The second coming is not imminent.

Dispensational Premillennialism, while claiming Jesus can return at any moment, teaches a series of events will occur first and then and only then will Jesus return If these events do not happen, or do not have to happen the DPism falls apart and is unsustainable. In DPism Israel has to first re-obtain all the physical land promised Abraham, re-establishing its original boundaries, fulfilling its restoration of the land. It must also rebuild a temple and do all those things listed in the opening post. At a very minimum, if we assumed the modern geo-political nation-state of Israel is the forerunner of a restored Israel then it will be years before all those events occurred. Jesus cannot return for several years. That is a huge compromise on historical orthodox Christianity's doctrine of Imminence.

 

[prism]

I recommend you read the ops in this board that pertain to the prospective building of the temple, the sacrifice of red heifers, the mark, the tribulation and more. Most of them are written by modern futurists asserting contradictions with historical orthodox Christianity. It's orthodox Dispensationalism, but it's not orthodox Christianity. A visit to any Eschatology board in any Christian forum will show more of the same.

Sorry, it's just not any kind of 'orthodox dispensationalism' I'm aware of. Like I said, it sounds more like Post Millennialism where the Church is to pave the way for Christ's 2nd Coming. Besides it's always easier to tear down another's eschatological views than to present a coherent view of one's own without it being dog piled on. At least it's not a salvific issue as some who attack it seem to act as if it is.

 

[Eleanor]

Another way in which there is no accountability in their doctrine, self accountability and accountability within the community, is that they state the beliefs as absolute fact as though everybody knows it is true and those who don't are sadly in the dark and need to grow up. When asked to give biblical proof that there is a rapture, a seven year tribulation and a literal thousand year restoration of Israel, they never do so.

The rapture (La rapturo, Gr harpazo); i.e., "catching up" in the air to meet Jesus at his second coming stated in 1 Th 4:17, will occur at the resurrection (1 Th 4:16), where the saints will then accompany Jesus to earth to assist in the final judgment (1 Co 6:2).

 

[Arial]

The rapture (La rapturo, Gr harpazo); i.e., "catching up" in the air to meet Jesus at his second coming stated in 1 Th 4:17, will occur at the resurrection (1 Th 4:16), where the saints will then accompany Jesus to earth to assist in the final judgment (1 Co 6:2).

I meant pre-trib rapture.

 

[CrowCross]

As long as there are thousands upon thousands of books, articles, podcasts, video's etc on the topic I guess I will believe it. Not. For you to say this, tells me clearly that you are from a psychological standpoint, utterly unable to understand what I was saying in that post. All those things do exactly what I was saying. And I say this in a descriptive way not as a personal insult---it is as though there is a dead spot in the brain that won't receive or send certain signals.

Perhaps our DNA acts as an antenna and sends and receives "certain signals"

 

[CrowCross]

Sorry, it's just not any kind of 'orthodox dispensationalism' I'm aware of. Like I said, it sounds more like Post Millennialism where the Church is to pave the way for Christ's 2nd Coming. Besides it's always easier to tear down another's eschatological views than to present a coherent view of one's own without it being dog piled on. At least it's not a salvific issue as some who attack it seem to act as if it is.

As we know the bible doesn't say the church will pave the way for the second coming.

if they are supposed to ave the way....they're not doing a very good job.

 

[prism]

As we know the bible doesn't say the church will pave the way for the second coming.

if they are supposed to ave the way....they're not doing a very good job.

Agreed, but satan is doing a marvelous job at deceiving the nations even though he is supposed to be bound during this 'spiritual' millennium...

Revelation 20:2-3 NKJV
He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; [3] and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

 

[Josheb]

.

In regard to soteriology, many leading Dispensationalists (like Chafer and Ryrie) articulate a fairly monergistic classic Reformed view of salvation BUT they also espouse two paths to salvation, not one. By claiming there are two peoples with two purposes Dispensational Premillennialists have also espoused two different paths to coming to Christ salvifically, even as they espouse one salvation by grace through faith....

This is the second main problem I had with Dispensationalism. Its clearly not honoring scripture.

No, it is not honoring scripture (and that is being gracious and kind).

 

[Josheb]

Sorry, it's just not any kind of 'orthodox dispensationalism' I'm aware of.

And like I said, all you have to do is read through the ops in this board. That evidence will leave only two options: Either 1) all those Dispies are wrong about their own theology and haven't a clue what their own theology teaches, or 2) they are representative of the theology and you're the one whose understanding is wanting.

Like I said, it sounds more like Post Millennialism where the Church is to pave the way for Christ's 2nd Coming.........

Which has absolutely nothing to do with nation-state Israel, building a temple, re-instituting the Levitical Law or reconstituting animal sacrifices (all of which Postmillennialists reject). DIP views don't sound anything like Postmillennialism. Please do not repeat that nonsense in this thread again. This op is not about comparative views. This op is about compromises to core doctrines found within Dispensational Premillennialism.