Romans 5:12-21

[Odë:hgöd]

.
The so-called "original sin" is commonly believed to be inherited from one's natural
father. Oh? From whence did Eve get it?

She was fully formed and constructed with material taken from Adam's body prior
to his tasting the forbidden fruit so it was too late for him to pass his mistake on to
her by means of heredity.

Note the grammatical tense of the verse below-- it's past tense rather than either
present or future; indicating that Adam's entire posterity was slammed in real time,
i.e. we were all tainted with his sin the very moment Adam took the first bite-- no
delay and no waiting period.

● Rom 5:12 . .Through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin,
and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.

FAQ: Did Jesus' virgin conception insulate him from the original sin?

REPLY: No.

FAQ: Why not?

REPLY: Jesus was conceived in his mother's womb rather than implanted; meaning
of course that Mary was baby Jesus' natural mother rather than his surrogate
mother.

Plus: it's easily proven that Jesus was one of David's natural descendants, and just
as easily proven that David was one of Adam's natural descendants.

* Quite a few Christians don't want Jesus to be biologically related to Adam, but
there is just no getting out of it.

FAQ: Wasn't Adam's mistake a sin unto Hell?

REPLY: No; the appropriate retribution for Adam tasting the forbidden fruit was just
simply his loss of immortality. In other words: had Jesus not been crucified he
would've eventually died of some other cause.
_

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
FAQ: How can Rom 5:12-21 be valid when the Bible says a man's children are not
held accountable for his mistakes? For example:

"The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the
father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son." (Ezek 18:20)

REPLY: The secret to this is simply timing. According to Deut 5:2-4, Rom 4:15,
Rom 5:13, and Gal 3:17; the laws of God-- especially His codified rules and
regulations --are not enforced ex post facto, viz: they aren't retroactive.
_

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
● Gen 2:25 . .The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

● Gen 3:6 . .When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and
pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate
it.

● Gen 3:6-7 . . She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate
it. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked;
so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

In the past, I was confident that the chemistry of the forbidden fruit had something
to do with the first couple's altered moral perception; but now I seriously doubt it
because the woman was first to eat the fruit, and when she did, nothing happened.
She remained just as shameless in the buff as before. It wasn't till Adam tasted the
fruit that she began to feel exposed; so I'm pretty sure that the underlying cause is
far more serious than something they ate.

FAQ: If the woman's transformation wasn't due to the fruit, nor due to heredity,
then what?

REPLY: Well; obviously the Serpent did it to her, a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2) the
ruler of the kingdom of the air, viz: the spirit world. He has the power of death
(Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human body and the human mind in
ways not easily detected. (e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2)

The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to get busy the moment that Adam
crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly things began to
happen. Not long after Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both immediately set
to work cobbling together some rudimentary aprons to cover up their pelvic areas.

FAQ: Why wasn't the woman's moral perception altered when she tasted the
forbidden fruit?

REPLY: It was apparently God's decision that if sin and death were to come into the
world, they would do so via a lone male's actions just as life and righteousness
would later be offered to the world via a lone male's actions. (Rom 5:12-21)

FAQ: When does the Serpent go to work on people. . . in the womb or out of the
womb?

REPLY: Adam and his wife demonstrate that it can be done on adults, but I'm
guessing that for most of us it's in the womb; and if not in the womb, then certainly
no later than when we're born. (Ps 51:5 & Ps 58:3)

So then: even if Joseph had fathered baby Jesus, the child wouldn't have
necessarily been born with the so-called fallen nature because it isn't inherited:
neither from one's father nor one's mother. It's obtained from humanity's covert
parent the Devil-- ergo: protecting baby Jesus from the so-called fallen nature was
just a simple matter of keeping the Devil's paws off him. (Luke 1:35 & 1John 3:9)

FAQ: No fair! Why are the rest of us allowed to be impaired by the Devil and not
him?

REPLY: Jesus is God's lamb of choice to atone for the sins of the world. (Matt 1:21)
He had to be a better man than his ancestors in order to succeed.

● 1Pet 1:18-20 . .You know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or
gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from
your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or
defect. He was chosen before the creation of the world.
_

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
Romans 5:12-21 explains why everyone unified with Adam has to die; but that's
only half its purpose. That passage also serves to explain why everyone unified with
Christ will live forever.

In a nutshell: were Jesus subpoenaed to appear before the great white throne
event depicted by Rev 20:11-15, he would walk away acquitted because God's son
never once committed a personal sin of his own to answer for. (John 8:29, 2Cor
5:21, Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22)

In point of fact, it was impossible for God's son to commit a personal sin of his own.

● 1John 3:9 . . No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in
him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Now; I haven't a clue how God pulls this off without cooking the books, but in a
manner similar to how He burdened Adam's posterity with a share in his guilt, God
has a way to credit folks with a share in Jesus' sinless perfection so that they can
walk away from the great white throne acquitted.

* Acquittal can be defined as an adjudication of innocence due to a lack of sufficient
evidence to convict.

There's a number of men here and there going about identifying themselves as
women so they can compete with women in women's sports. Of course they are not
really women, i.e. they're women in accord with culture rather than in accord with
nature. Well; in a manner of speaking, folks unified with Christ have a God-given
mandate to identify with His son as 100% perfectly sinless creatures though on a
personal level they are definitely not so.

● 1John 1:8-10 . . If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the
truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our
sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned,
we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
_

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
FAQ: How can sinners unified with Christ be credited with his righteousness when
the Bible says otherwise? For example:

"The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the
wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him." (Ezek 18:20)

REPLY: The secret to this is simply timing. According to Deut 5:2-4, Rom 4:15,
Rom 5:13, and Gal 3:17; the laws of God-- especially His codified rules and
regulations --are not enforced ex post facto, viz: they aren't retroactive.

This is especially applicable to Christ because he was designated, and scheduled, to
atone for the sins of the world before the world existed. (1Pet 1:18-21 & Rev 13:8)

Also: everyone who would eventually unify with Christ was foreseen and tagged
very early-on. (Rom 8:29-30 & Eph 1:4-5)
_

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
FAQ: I am interested in unifying with Christ so I can become accredited with his
righteousness. How do I go about this?

REPLY: I suggest you begin by opening a line of forthright communication with God
because according to 2Cor 5:19-21 He's been waiting to hear from you.

Find some privacy, anywhere will do. Cover your face with your hands-- it will give
you a sense of connection --and in your own words; tell God you haven't measured
up to His expectations and are pretty sure you never will. Then tell Him you would
like to take advantage of His son's death as an atonement to protect yourself from
retribution.
_

 

[JIM]

.
The so-called "original sin" is commonly believed to be inherited from one's natural
father. Oh? From whence did Eve get it?

She was fully formed and constructed with material taken from Adam's body prior
to his tasting the forbidden fruit so it was too late for him to pass his mistake on to
her by means of heredity.

Note the grammatical tense of the verse below-- it's past tense rather than either
present or future; indicating that Adam's entire posterity was slammed in real time,
i.e. we were all tainted with his sin the very moment Adam took the first bite-- no
delay and no waiting period.

● Rom 5:12 . .Through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin,
and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.

FAQ: Did Jesus' virgin conception insulate him from the original sin?

REPLY: No.

FAQ: Why not?

REPLY: Jesus was conceived in his mother's womb rather than implanted; meaning
of course that Mary was baby Jesus' natural mother rather than his surrogate
mother.

Plus: it's easily proven that Jesus was one of David's natural descendants, and just
as easily proven that David was one of Adam's natural descendants.

* Quite a few Christians don't want Jesus to be biologically related to Adam, but
there is just no getting out of it.

FAQ: Wasn't Adam's mistake a sin unto Hell?

REPLY: No; the appropriate retribution for Adam tasting the forbidden fruit was just
simply his loss of immortality. In other words: had Jesus not been crucified he
would've eventually died of some other cause.
_

The wages of sin is spiritual death, not physical death. There is nothing in the whole of the Bible that says or even suggests that Adam and Eve were created as immortal beings. That is your assumption, and a really bad assumption. Nothing about this physical creation was or is immortal.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.

The wages of sin is spiritual death, not physical death.

Spiritual death-- a.k.a. the so-called fallen nature --was an important result of the
man's fall; as evidenced by his altered self awareness and by his hiding from God's
presence. However; spiritual death wasn't the only result of his fall.

Now the thing to note is that mortality and the fallen nature aren't inseparably
joined at the hip. For example Jesus circumvented the spiritual element of death,
but he didn't circumvent the natural element, i.e. he avoided the one while
retaining the other. (Heb 9:27-28)

There is nothing in the whole of the Bible that says . . .

I have yet to encounter anyone during my 80+ years in this world who I felt had a
flawless understanding of the entire Bible from cover to cover. So unless you sincerely
believe yourself infallible and/or channeling God's thoughts; then I suggest leaving
yourself some room for error so if need be you can stand down with dignity instead of
humiliation.
_

 

[JIM]

.However; spiritual death wasn't the only result of his fall._

It did get him kicked out of the Garden so that he could no longer access the fruit of the tree of life which kept him from dying physically. (Gen 3:22)

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
FAQ: What if Adam had eaten some fruit from the tree of life prior to trying the
forbidden fruit?

REPLY: To my knowledge: the tree of life doesn't work like a vaccine, rather, it's a
remedy; portrayed in the Bible as a treatment for whatever ails you (Rev 22:2) and
in Adam's case, that would've included mortality.

In other words: under normal circumstances Adam had no medical use for the tree
of life at first because he was already in perfect health, viz: the tree of life wouldn't
prevent Adam from contracting mortality, but the tree would've cured it and restored
him to perpetual youth had he been allowed continued access to it.

NOTE: Immortality makes people immune to the aging process. But although
immortality prevents people from dying of old age, it doesn't protect them from
death by other means, e.g. violence, poison, falls, starvation, dehydration, bleeding
out, decapitation, blunt force trauma, bullets, suffocation, crushing, etc.

On top of that; immortality isn't indelible, viz: the Serpent was able to take it away
from Adam (John 8:44, Heb 2:14) plus: the Serpent's ability extended to Adam's
posterity too because God somehow, in some way I've yet to understand, reckons
us all joint principals in Adam's disobedience. (Rom 5:12-21, 1Cor 15:21-22)

Anyway: people tend to take advantage of medicine in order to continue their bad
habits. For example; treatments for STDs enable immoral folk to continue their
swinging life style with little fear of permanent consequences. The same can be said
for folk with high cholesterol numbers. Statins make it possible for them to keep on
eating foods that are normally unsuitable for them.

In other words; had Adam been allowed unlimited access to the tree of life, he and
his wife would've no doubt routinely included fruit from the forbidden tree in their
diets because detrimental effects on their health could've been easily reversed.
_

 

[JIM]

.
FAQ: What if Adam had eaten some fruit from the tree of life prior to trying the
forbidden fruit?

REPLY: To my knowledge: the tree of life doesn't work like a vaccine, rather, it's a
remedy; portrayed in the Bible as a treatment for whatever ails you (Rev 22:2) and
in Adam's case, that would've included mortality.

In other words: under normal circumstances Adam had no medical use for the tree
of life at first because he was already in perfect health, viz: the tree of life wouldn't
prevent Adam from contracting mortality, but the tree would've cured it and restored
him to perpetual youth had he been allowed continued access to it.

There is no indication that Adam was created immortal, quite the opposite in fact. The clear implication that the tree of life was placed in the garden to prevent physical death which was an integral part of creation for every living thing.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
@JIM

Hello;

This is to inform you that I don't have the patience to be distracted by your
comments so I've placed you on my ignore list. Others will still be able to view your
posts; just not me. Sorry.
_

 

[JIM]

.
@JIM

Hello;

This is to inform you that I don't have the patience to be distracted by your
comments so I've placed you on my ignore list. Others will still be able to view your
posts; just not me. Sorry.
_

This is almost always a typical response of one who doesn't have the "patience" to defend his position.

 

[Eleanor]

The so-called "original sin" is commonly believed to be inherited from one's natural
father. Oh? From whence did Eve get it?

Eve got it from doing it, the first sin in the universe; i.e., original sin.

She was fully formed and constructed with material taken from Adam's body prior
to his tasting the forbidden fruit so it was too late for him to pass his mistake on to
her by means of heredity.

Note the grammatical tense of the verse below-- it's past tense rather than either
present or future; indicating that Adam's entire posterity was slammed in real time,
i.e. we were all tainted with his sin the very moment Adam took the first bite-- no
delay and no waiting period.

● Rom 5:12 . .Through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin,
and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.

In the OT, all is reckoned from the father. The nature is inherited from our father in the OT.

All those of Adam inherit the guilt of Adam's sin imputed to them (Ro 5:18),
which imputation of sin is "a pattern (Ro 5:14) for the one to come,"
a pattern for Christ's righteousness imputed to all those of Christ (Ro 5:18-19),
just as Adam's sin is imputed to all those of Adam (Ro 5:18).

FAQ: Did Jesus' virgin conception insulate him from the original sin?
REPLY: No.
FAQ: Why not?
REPLY: Jesus was conceived in his mother's womb rather than implanted; meaning
of course that Mary was baby Jesus' natural mother rather than his surrogate
mother.

Jesus' insulation from sin was not due to the virgin conception, it was due to his Father. . .in the OT all is reckoned from the father.
Jesus' Father was God and, therefore, he was God (Jn 1:1, 14), without sin.

Plus: it's easily proven that Jesus was one of David's natural descendants, and just
as easily proven that David was one of Adam's natural descendants.

* Quite a few Christians don't want Jesus to be biologically related to Adam, but
there is just no getting out of it.

Jesus is a descendant of Adam through his mother, which is not reckoned as his geneaology.
He is likewise a descendant of David both by birth through Mary and legally by Joseph.
However, genealogy is reckoned through the father in the OT which, for Jesus, is God, making Jesus to be God.
In God's order, Jesus did not have his mother's sinful nature.

FAQ: Wasn't Adam's mistake a sin unto Hell?

REPLY: No; the appropriate retribution for Adam tasting the forbidden fruit was just
simply his loss of immortality.

He also lost eternal life as well as physical life.
"Dying (spiritually), you shall die (physically)." (Ge 2:17)

In other words: had Jesus not been crucified he
would've eventually died of some other cause.

NOT! . . .Death is the result of sin (Ro 6:23), of which Jesus was never ever guilty, being descended from God the Father.

Jesus would not have died, he would have simply ascended back toheaven as he did after the resurrection.

 

[Eleanor]

FAQ: How can Rom 5:12-21 be valid when the Bible says a man's children are not
held accountable for his mistakes? For example:

"The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father,
nor will the father share the guilt of the son." (Ezek 18:20)

Sin is not inherited. . .however, it is imputed, just as righteousness is not inherited, but it is imputed (Ro 5:18-19).

REPLY: The secret to this is simply timing. According to Deut 5:2-4, Rom 4:15,
Rom 5:13, and Gal 3:17; the laws of God-- especially His codified rules and
regulations --are not enforced ex post facto, viz: they aren't retroactive.

No, the secret is Imputation, which is not inheritance.

 

[Eleanor]

Romans 5:12-21 explains why everyone unified with Adam has to die; but that's
only half its purpose. That passage also serves to explain why everyone unified with
Christ will live forever.

In a nutshell: were Jesus subpoenaed to appear before the great white throne
event depicted by Rev 20:11-15, he would walk away acquitted because God's son
never once committed a personal sin of his own to answer for. (John 8:29, 2Cor
5:21, Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22)

In point of fact, it was impossible for God's son to commit a personal sin of his own.

● 1John 3:9 . . No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in
him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Now; I haven't a clue how God pulls this off without cooking the books, but in a
manner similar to how He burdened Adam's posterity with a share in his guilt, God
has a way to credit folks with a share in Jesus' sinless perfection so that they can
walk away from the great white throne acquitted.

Scripture calls it "imputation" (Ge 15:6, Ro 4:3).

* Acquittal can be defined as an adjudication of innocence due to a lack of sufficient
evidence to convict.

There's a number of men here and there going about identifying themselves as
women so they can compete with women in women's sports. Of course they are not
really women, i.e. they're women in accord with culture rather than in accord with
nature. Well; in a manner of speaking, folks unified with Christ have a God-given
mandate to identify with His son as 100% perfectly sinless creatures though on a
personal level they are definitely not so.

● 1John 1:8-10 . . If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the
truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our
sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned,
we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
_

 

[Eleanor]

FAQ: How can sinners unified with Christ be credited with his righteousness when
the Bible says otherwise?

For example:

"The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the
wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him." (Ezek 18:20)

1) What righteousness?
"No one is righteous, not even one" (Ps 14:1-3, 53:1-3, Eccl 7:20, Ro 3:10)

2) "Credited" means "one's own merit/demerit applied to one"

3) "Righteousness" in Ro 5:18-19 means Christ's righteousness reckoned to one. . .
as Adam's sin is reckoned to those between Adam and Moses when there was no law to (Ro 5:13) sin against.

REPLY: The secret to this is simply timing. According to Deut 5:2-4, Rom 4:15,
Rom 5:13, and Gal 3:17; the laws of God-- especially His codified rules and
regulations --are not enforced ex post facto, viz: they aren't retroactive.

This is especially applicable to Christ because he was designated, and scheduled, to
atone for the sins of the world before the world existed. (1Pet 1:18-21 & Rev 13:8)

Also: everyone who would eventually unify with Christ was foreseen and tagged
very early-on. (Rom 8:29-30 & Eph 1:4-5)

"Timing" has nothing to do with it. It's about imputation of Adam's sin to all men when there was no law to sin against between Adam and Moses (Ro 5:13), and yet they all died anyway (Ro 5:14).

 

[JIM]

3) "Righteousness" in Ro 5:18-19 means Christ's righteousness reckoned to one. . .
as Adam's sin is reckoned to those between Adam and Moses when there was no law to (Ro 5:13) sin against.

"Timing" has nothing to do with it. It's about imputation of Adam's sin to all men when there was no law to sin against between Adam and Moses (Ro 5:13), and yet they all died anyway (Ro 5:14).

The Law of Moses had not yet been given, but there was law. There is always law even if it is not the Law; that is, the Law of Moses.

Rom 2:12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

 

[JIM]

Sin is not inherited. . .however, it is imputed, just as righteousness is not inherited, but it is imputed (Ro 5:18-19).

The sin of another is never imputed. That would be totally unjust. God is just. The righteousness of Christ is imputed; that is mercy and grace.

 

[Mr GLee]

The sin of another is never imputed. That would be totally unjust. God is just. The righteousness of Christ is imputed; that is mercy and grace.

Its seems how the the word dead is the key understand .Not Limbo or Purgatory.. wonder, wonder wonder?

Death, dead not breathing. Mankind dying to get there.

Death never to rise was passed down to the whole creation not imputed.

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until no

Having failed the test letter of law "death". .The temporal flesh returns to dust and temporal spirit returns to the father .

Just as if never born .No record. . name erased

To impute is to to reckon, clear up, settle (an account),which was paid in full by Christ working in demonstrated by the Son of man, Jesus . his flesh reckoned as sinful, dying.

The whole dead creation. It will vanish on the last day under the sun the previous things (the letter of the law scripture )willl never come to mind forever more

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: (Not reconditioned) and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.