Romans 11:26a.... And so all Israel will be saved.

[Eleanor]

. . .

 

[brightfame52]

The Church, the Body of Christ Israel, has always been those individuals God foreknew in the purpose of Christ Rom 11:2

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

The same people Paul speaks of here as referring to the Church the Body of Christ Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

And these are the ones it is promised Jesus shall save from their sins , His People Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins. 2

 

[EarlyActs]

The Church, the Body of Christ Israel, are those whom God foreknew, His People. Rom 11:1-2a

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people[Israel] which he foreknew.

The casting away of the nation of israel was not God casting away His People Israel the Church, the Body of Christ, the remnant according to the election of grace. Remember Paul had just wrote in Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel[foreknew], which are of Israel[national]

Those whom He foreknew in Christ to be conformed to His Image, is the Israel the Body of Christ Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

This verse Identifies Israel, no not the ethnic nation, but the people of God Israel, the Children of God

Israel

It might be simpler to say the race-nation Israel vs the faith-based Israel

 

[prism]

It might be simpler to say the race-nation Israel vs the faith-based Israel

Or, all those who have faith in Jesus.

 

[EarlyActs]

Or, all those who have faith in Jesus.

Yes

 

[brightfame52]

I'm going to clarify something. National ethnic Israel was God's people while under the old covenant and it was by national covenant. However within that national covenant Israel was remnant Israel the spiritual body of Christ, God's people He foreknew. That Israel will be conformed to the image of Christ. Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren

So yes in a real sense national ethnic Israel was God's people for a time by national covenant! 2

 

[Eleanor]

. . .

 

[Eleanor]

I'm going to clarify something. National ethnic Israel was God's people while under the old covenant and it was by national covenant. However within that national covenant Israel was remnant Israel the spiritual body of Christ, God's people He foreknew. That Israel will be conformed to the image of Christ. Rom 8:29

That would be those who believed in and trusted on the promise (Ge 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16), as did Abraham (Ge 15:6).

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren

So yes in a real sense national ethnic Israel was God's people for a time by national covenant! 2

 

[makesends]

brightfame52 said:
I'm going to clarify something. National ethnic Israel was God's people while under the old covenant and it was by national covenant. However within that national covenant Israel was remnant Israel the spiritual body of Christ, God's people He foreknew. That Israel will be conformed to the image of Christ. Rom 8:29

That would be those who believed in and trusted on the promise (Ge 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16), as did Abraham (Ge 15:6).

I think, more to the point, it is those who belong to God, because they are those individuals he created for that purpose. It is not what they did, but what he did, that makes them Israel.

 

[EarlyActs]

I'm going to clarify something. National ethnic Israel was God's people while under the old covenant and it was by national covenant. However within that national covenant Israel was remnant Israel the spiritual body of Christ, God's people He foreknew. That Israel will be conformed to the image of Christ. Rom 8:29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren

So yes in a real sense national ethnic Israel was God's people for a time by national covenant! 2

But only because they were all considered believers initially. Then incidents took place to show they all were not, as Hebrews explains in depth.

 

[brightfame52]

The Old Testament Saints are part of Christ Body the Church, or they will not partake of the resurrection in the Last day which they had an eye to. Christ is the first fruits 1 Cor 15:12-23

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 and if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 and if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

Jesus Christ is the resurrection Jn 11:24-25

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life:

Paul testifies that the OT Fathers believed in the resurrection Acts 24:14-15

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 15 and have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Now the resurrection of the just, or Justified of all time is contingent upon being in Christ ! Its only in Him that all shall be made alive. That goes for King David, or the Philippian Jailor. 6

 

[brightfame52]

But only because they were all considered believers initially. Then incidents took place to show they all were not, as Hebrews explains in depth.

Back in the OT in the nation of Israel , one didn't have to be a believer in Christ to be part of Gods Covenant people Israel, it was a physical by blood privilege. For instance, a jew of that nation back then would not have to be a believer to partake of the Passover. Now that said, there was always a small remnant in national israel that were believers in Christ to come, like Moses, Joshua etc. So you are in error to say all national ethnic jews were initially considered believers in Christ for salvation, only a remnant. Thats why Paul revealed there was a Israel within Israel Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all[remnant] Israel, which are of[ethnic national] Israel:

The remnant Israel, believers in Christ like Moses, they were the church, the Body of Christ within the nation of israel

 

[EarlyActs]

Back in the OT in the nation of Israel , one didn't have to be a believer in Christ to be part of Gods Covenant people Israel, it was a physical by blood privilege. For instance, a jew of that nation back then would not have to be a believer to partake of the Passover. Now that said, there was always a small remnant in national israel that were believers in Christ to come, like Moses, Joshua etc. So you are in error to say all national ethnic jews were initially considered believers in Christ for salvation, only a remnant. Thats why Paul revealed there was a Israel within Israel Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all[remnant] Israel, which are of[ethnic national] Israel:

The remnant Israel, believers in Christ like Moses, they were the church, the Body of Christ within the nation of israel

If your last line is right, then there was no national covenant that you mentioned; that would be a 2nd program, and D’ism would be correct.

But Galatians 3 dismisses a national covenant. It says that Judaizers (though not named) believe that the Law (read: national covenant) replaced and voided the Promise to the nations. Vs 15, 16. Applying that to land promises in Genesis, they really had no function other than making a place for Christ to come to, because “the promise was about the Seed, meaning one person…”. And for his message to spread from.

Ever since Babel, the location of Israel was considered and international crossroad. The cursed 70 nation list forms a circle around it, and the blessing of the Gospel goes to those nations right after Pentecost.

Likewise Rom 15:8-13. No mention of the land, only the mission to the nations, which was successful. Thus no national covenant that included unbelieving Jews was ever in mind.

But only if Paul is correct, of course.

 

[Eleanor]

That would be those who believed in and trusted on the promise (Ge 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16), as did Abraham (Ge 15:6).

I think, more to the point, it is those who belong to God, because they are those individuals he created for that purpose. It is not what they did, but what he did, that makes them Israel.

Agreed. . .that's what it always is in anything salvific. . .and what he did was embue them with faith in the promise (Ge 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) which faith was necessary to be true Israel (Ge 15:6).

 

[brightfame52]

If your last line is right, then there was no national covenant that you mentioned;

Yes it was a national covenant at siani Paul refers to it here Gal 4 24-25

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 ;For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Personal slight deleted by Mod

 

[EarlyActs]

Yes it was a national covenant at siani Paul refers to it here Gal 4 24-25

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 ;For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Personal slight deleted by Mod

But the promise was made to the Seed, meaning one person. 3:15

 

[makesends]

But the promise was made to the Seed, meaning one person. 3:15

Can you prove the singular form in the Hebrew is no indication of genetic descent, multiple generations? "People" for example, is singular, but inclusive of many members.

 

[brightfame52]

The Church, the Body of Christ is the Seed of Abraham, for its seen when we consider a couple of verses in Hebrews to start. Heb 2:11

11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

This no doubt refers to Christ as the " He that sanctifieth" and the " we who are sanctified" are His Body the Church, and they are of One or they are One. The Head and His Members are One 1 Cor 12:12

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

Col 1:18

And he[Christ] is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Now lets look again in Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people

So He became One when He took on the seed of Abraham in the flesh, He identified in the flesh with those e is the Head of, they also being the members of His Body.

Christ is the Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

And His Body the Church is Abrahams Seed Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[brightfame52]

But the promise was made to the Seed, meaning one person. 3:15

What do you mean ? What is 3:15

 

[Eleanor]

Can you prove the singular form in the Hebrew is no indication of genetic descent, multiple generations? "People" for example, is singular, but inclusive of many members.

Does not the text do that: "The Scripture does not say 'and to seeds,' meaning many people, but 'and to your seed,' meaning one person, who is Christ." (Gal 3:16)

Or am I misunderstanding?