Questions for the church (the body of Christ)

[Carbon]

1. What is the role and purpose of the Church? How do you measure its success?
2. What is church membership? How would you support it biblically? What makes one a member of a church?
3. What is church discipline? How would you support it biblically? How should it be used within the body?
4. What is baptism? Who is it for? What does it do, mean, or symbolize? What is your view on infant baptism?
5. What is your eschatological view? How does your stance on this matter impact your theological views?
6. Why do trials occur? What is the purpose of suffering?
7. What role in leadership do you believe women should have within the church? In what context should they teach? Are there any restrictions?
8. How should a Christian think about politics? What is the framework a believer should use to decide who to support politically?
9. What role should counseling have in the life of a believer? What should counseling look like and in which contexts should it occur? Should we ever recommend a licensed counselor?

 

[Josheb]

(josh pulls up a chair to watch the ensuing fray)

You sure you don't want to pick just one or two of those?

 

[Carbon]

(josh pulls up a chair to watch the ensuing fray)

You sure you don't want to pick just one or two of those?

Sure. 0ne or two is fine.

 

[ChristB4us]

1. What is the role and purpose of the Church? How do you measure its success?

The role & purpose of the church is below.

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Seeing apostasy abounding, I can see why faith is hard to find in these latter days and so the "church" is not fulfilling its role & purpose.

What you see heralded as a revival is actually apostasy. So beware.

Trust Jesus Christ to be your personal Good Shepherd & Friend to help you to follow Him by looking to Him to help you lay aside every weight ( provisions for the flesh ) & sin daily ( Hebrews 12:1-2 ) thus walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son in bearing fruits as His disciples.

You may find Him leading you to leave the unrepentant church as well as other unrepentant believers. Thing is, it is so bad, those astray can be of your own household.

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Like it or not, when the Bridegroom comes, we need His help to trust Him that we can leave our loved ones behind in His hands in order for us to go.

 

[makesends]

1. What is the role and purpose of the church? How do you measure its success?

a. Are you asking about what God has in mind for their final end? The Body of Christ and the Bride, the Dwelling Place of God? The success there is precise and perfect, being the work of God alone.

b. Or do you mean what is their function, here in the temporal, before the end? In a way, you could ask the same question concerning the elect individuals. But yes, there is nuanced difference, concerning corporate mission and so on.

Interestingly, to me, the answer to this (b) can be described, or should be described, in some way, according to the facts of (a). "Already, but not yet". (Ha,ha! I'll leave it there for now, before I start tangling my words up in it.)

 

[fastfredy0]

"Already, but not yet".

This seems to be a recent theme in your posts; that and God's POV. Your almost always have interesting, deep thoughts but in can't say I am keeping up with exactly what you're pointing out. Put some "meat on them bones". What are you getting at? Maybe start a new thread.

 

[Sereni-tea]

Wow! A lot of questions - many of which could be a thread on their own.

1. What is the role and purpose of the Church? How do you measure its success?

The Church is to reflect the light and love of God into the world and to reflect the praises of the world back to God. Its success is not measured by how rich it is, or by how many people are in its pews, or how much power it holds over people/governments, or any other number of ways success is usually measured in this world. Success should be measured in how the Church is growing to be more and more Christ-like.

2. What is church membership? How would you support it biblically? What makes one a member of a church?

A member of a church is one who takes part in the life of the church (Romans 12:3-8).

3. What is church discipline? How would you support it biblically? How should it be used within the body?

It is calling believers out of ungodly behaviour but doing it out of love (1 Corinthians 5).

4. What is baptism? Who is it for? What does it do, mean, or symbolize? What is your view on infant baptism?

It is a sign of the new covenant. It is a declaration that the person has passed out of slavery to sin and death and into the community of God's people. Infants of believing parents are as much a part of God's covenant people as adults and should be entitled to the symbol of that community. However I do believe when they come of age the person should make a public declaration of their faith.

5. What is your eschatological view? How does your stance on this matter impact your theological views?

Amillenial. It has very little impact on my theological views. I think the millenial views are way over-rated.

6. Why do trials occur? What is the purpose of suffering?

Trials occur because we live in a fallen world but also God uses suffering to shape the Christian's character and strengthen their faith (Romans 5:3-5).

7. What role in leadership do you believe women should have within the church? In what context should they teach? Are there any restrictions?

It's complicated. I believe women have a very important part to play in the church and should be able to teach in certain situations. Not a topic I have spent a lot of time thinking about though, so won't say anything more specific about it.

8. How should a Christian think about politics? What is the framework a believer should use to decide who to support politically?

Politics is a necessary part of society. I do not think a believer should align themselves with a particular party but should support the person who best represents the needs of the poor and most vulnerable. But sadly these are also the ones often overlooked by politicians. The best thing a person can do is pray for our leaders and for God's guidance at election time.

9. What role should counseling have in the life of a believer? What should counseling look like and in which contexts should it occur? Should we ever recommend a licensed counselor?

A person should seek whatever medical help they need, including counselling if appropriate. But here I am talking about bigger issues that cannot be helped by talking/praying with other Christians/pastor, etc.

 

[atpollard]

This seems to be a recent theme in your posts; that and God's POV. Your almost always have interesting, deep thoughts but in can't say I am keeping up with exactly what you're pointing out. Put some "meat on them bones". What are you getting at? Maybe start a new thread.

"Already and not yet" is a classic BAPTIST thing. [It is our version of the Lutheran "Mystery" ... when you talk to a Lutheran, every conversation ends in "Mystery". When you talk to a Baptist, every conversation ends in "Already and not yet. ... Well, to be honest, we Baptists sort of just start out with "Already and Not yet" as the Lead Line.]

 

[fastfredy0]

"Already and not yet" is a classic BAPTIST thing. [It is our version of the Lutheran "Mystery" ... when you talk to a Lutheran, every conversation ends in "Mystery". When you talk to a Baptist, every conversation ends in "Already and not yet. ... Well, to be honest, we Baptists sort of just start out with "Already and Not yet" as the Lead Line.]

Maybe so ... but I am not any smarter after reading this. I just now went to Gotquestions for their answer

The theological concept of “already but not yet” holds that believers are actively taking part in the kingdom of God, although the kingdom will not reach its full expression until sometime in the future. We are “already” in the kingdom, but we do “not yet” see it in its glory. The “already but not yet” theology is related to kingdom theology or inaugurated eschatology.

What is the concept of "already but not yet"? | GotQuestions.org

What is the concept of 'already but not yet'? How is the kingdom already here and not yet here at the same time?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[prism]

"Already and not yet" is a classic BAPTIST thing. [It is our version of the Lutheran "Mystery" ... when you talk to a Lutheran, every conversation ends in "Mystery". When you talk to a Baptist, every conversation ends in "Already and not yet. ... Well, to be honest, we Baptists sort of just start out with "Already and Not yet" as the Lead Line.]

How ironic, the first time I ever heard the concept of 'already, but not yet', was in a Lutheran Church circa 2003. (I had recently came out of a Reformed Baptist and never heard it.) Go figure.

 

[Carbon]

1. What is the role and purpose of the church? How do you measure its success?

a. Are you asking about what God has in mind for their final end?

The questions are to the church. So, what do you think?

The Body of Christ and the Bride, the Dwelling Place of God? The success there is precise and perfect, being the work of God alone.

b. Or do you mean what is their function, here in the temporal, before the end? In a way, you could ask the same question concerning the elect individuals. But yes, there is nuanced difference, concerning corporate mission and so on.

Interestingly, to me, the answer to this (b) can be described, or should be described, in some way, according to the facts of (a). "Already, but not yet". (Ha,ha! I'll leave it there for now, before I start tangling my words up in it.)

 

[Carbon]

Interestingly, to me, the answer to this (b) can be described, or should be described, in some way, according to the facts of (a). "Already, but not yet". (Ha,ha! I'll leave it there for now, before I start tangling my words up in it.)

The already, but not yet, I'm very familiar with it. It's just like when someone askes if something is for the past or present. The answer is yes. I'm sure you know what I mean.

 

[atpollard]

Maybe so ... but I am not any smarter after reading this. I just now went to Gotquestions for their answer

The theological concept of “already but not yet” holds that believers are actively taking part in the kingdom of God, although the kingdom will not reach its full expression until sometime in the future. We are “already” in the kingdom, but we do “not yet” see it in its glory. The “already but not yet” theology is related to kingdom theology or inaugurated eschatology.

What is the concept of "already but not yet"? | GotQuestions.org

What is the concept of 'already but not yet'? How is the kingdom already here and not yet here at the same time?

www.gotquestions.org

How ironic, the first time I ever heard the concept of 'already, but not yet', was in a Lutheran Church circa 2003. (I had recently came out of a Reformed Baptist and never heard it.) Go figure.

I started a topic on "Already and Not Yet"

 

[atpollard]

What is baptism? Who is it for? What does it do, mean, or symbolize? What is your view on infant baptism?

As a good Baptist, I know that any believers 'dunkin' is not salvific, but symbolic. [Water wets, God saves.]
So what does it "symbolize"? The death, burial and resurrection of Christ and our death, burial and resurrection In Him.

(ALREADY AND NOT YET)
Baptism is a PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE event.

• ALREADY: 2000 years ago (ballpark) Jesus died, was buried and was resurrected to purchase for US our Justification. His work already saved us. When we are baptized, we REMEMBER what HE has done and symbolically join Him in His eternal work (once for all).
• AND: Now, today, in the present, God is doing [Technically in Credobaptism, God has already done] a work..When we are baptized, we make a public profession acknowledging what God has done IN US. The old man has DIED and is BURIED [forever dead to our past], the water washes our sin away [symbolically, as the Holy Spirit did in reality], and we rise a New Creation ... the present event is an Ebenezer [stone of remembrance] to mark the transition - the crossing from death to life.
• NOT YET: One day we each will die. An earth grave awaits each of us. Our Baptism is a reminder that that future grave is not our end. Just as Jesus rose in the PAST, we will rise in the FUTURE. Just as Jesus was glorified in the past, we will be glorified in the future.

That one symbolic ORDINANCE carries within it a message of our PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE and a reminder of the ALREADY AND NOT YET nature of our Christian sojourn in this foreign land.

 

[atpollard]

How should a Christian think about politics? What is the framework a believer should use to decide who to support politically?

Just vote Republican, no matter what. [just kidding]

I heard good advice on this from the most unlikely of places ... Creflo Dollar [I know, who would have guessed?]

When you watch a Soccer game [Football for you people in foreign countries ], there are THREE teams on the field. There is the HOME team and the AWAY team, each with its cheering fans and each striving towards a different goal. There are strict rules for each team about what they may or may not do and where they may or may not go. Then there is a THIRD team on the field wearing striped shirts. This THIRD team owes allegiance to NEITHER of the other two teams and is free to move about the field through, among and between each of the other teams. This is allowed because this "Striped" team owed allegiance to something higher than the local fans of either team. They are sworn to uphold the RULES and owe allegiance to THE GAME.​

​

WE are IN this world but not OF this world. We are not playing for any POLITICAL team. We owe allegiance to a HIGHER AUTHORITY. So we are free to move among either or both Political Team as need arises in pursuit of the Goals of OUR SUPREME COMMANDER. Whichever person or organization or program supports and aligns with the PLAN of God, we should support. Whatever does not support or align with the plan of God, we should not support. We play for a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TEAM according to COMPLETELY DIFFERENT RULES than the World.​

Not bad advice, imho.

 

[prism]

Just vote Republican, no matter what. [just kidding]

I heard good advice on this from the most unlikely of places ... Creflo Dollar [I know, who would have guessed?]

When you watch a Soccer game [Football for you people in foreign countries ], there are THREE teams on the field. There is the HOME team and the AWAY team, each with its cheering fans and each striving towards a different goal. There are strict rules for each team about what they may or may not do and where they may or may not go. Then there is a THIRD team on the field wearing striped shirts. This THIRD team owes allegiance to NEITHER of the other two teams and is free to move about the field through, among and between each of the other teams. This is allowed because this "Striped" team owed allegiance to something higher than the local fans of either team. They are sworn to uphold the RULES and owe allegiance to THE GAME.​

​

WE are IN this world but not OF this world. We are not playing for any POLITICAL team. We owe allegiance to a HIGHER AUTHORITY. So we are free to move among either or both Political Team as need arises in pursuit of the Goals of OUR SUPREME COMMANDER. Whichever person or organization or program supports and aligns with the PLAN of God, we should support. Whatever does not support or align with the plan of God, we should not support. We play for a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TEAM according to COMPLETELY DIFFERENT RULES than the World.​

Not bad advice, imho.

Not bad. too bad Creflo doesn't practice what he preaches. His allegiance appears to be the Mammon of this world.

 

[makesends]

"Already and not yet" is a classic BAPTIST thing. [It is our version of the Lutheran "Mystery" ... when you talk to a Lutheran, every conversation ends in "Mystery". When you talk to a Baptist, every conversation ends in "Already and not yet. ... Well, to be honest, we Baptists sort of just start out with "Already and Not yet" as the Lead Line.]

I never identified it with any group. Interesting —thanks!

 

[Josheb]

"Already and not yet" is a classic BAPTIST thing. [It is our version of the Lutheran "Mystery" ... when you talk to a Lutheran, every conversation ends in "Mystery". When you talk to a Baptist, every conversation ends in "Already and not yet. ... Well, to be honest, we Baptists sort of just start out with "Already and Not yet" as the Lead Line.]

I never identified it with any group. Interesting —thanks!

I believe it was Dutch Reformed Geerhardus Vos who formalized the "already/not yet" terminology in the literature in the early 1900s, first in his book, "The Teaching of Jesus Concerning the Kingdom of God and the Church" (1903) and again in "The Pauline Eschatology" (1930), but I suspect the concept has been around a long time. It's interchangeable with "inaugurated" versus "realized" kingdom/eschatology.

 

[prism]

...

 

[Red Baker]

1. What is the role and purpose of the Church? How do you measure its success?

1. To be very brief, I would say to be a light in a dark world, and to be salt to preserves the true worship of God. Matthew 5:13-16.

What is church membership? How would you support it biblically? What makes one a member of a church?

There is no just teaching in the scriptures as joining membership of a local church. When one comes to the faith, he should seek to join his presence with other disciples to go in and out among them. Acts 9:26 What local church was Christ a member of? When you find the scripture please share it with us.

What is church discipline? How would you support it biblically? How should it be used within the body?

Where there are believers gathered together in one place, and if any among them walk not according to the scriptures by indulging in any known open sin, then that person should be excommunicated by the elders (older men ) from them, until he repents, and if no repentance then turn them over unto Satan for the destruction of their flesh~ but there should be no fellowship with unfruitful workers of iniquities. 1st Corinthians 5

What is baptism? Who is it for? What does it do, mean, or symbolize?

What is your view on infant baptism?

Assuming you mean water baptism? 1st Peter 3:21 tells us what it is~it is an answer of a good conscience unto God.

What does it do, mean, or symbolize?

In a few words: It speaks to the eyes of men what the gospel does to the ears of men. When one is baptized into Jesus Christ, or into his faith/religion per Romans 6:1-4, one is professing to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ, in his death, burial and resurrection.

Also, you are confessing that you believe in a future resurrection, per 1st Corinthians 15:29, or else, why even be baptized if there is no future resurrection!

Baptism is only for believers and no one else, per Acts 8:37.

What is your view on infant baptism?

Baptism is only for believer, there is no instance in the scriptures of infant baptism, and truly there is not for teenagers!

God's elect will not spoil, we should not push young folks into making a confession of Jesus Christ UNTIL they are ready for a full commitment to Jesus Christ, the apostles did not, why should we.

What is your eschatological view? How does your stance on this matter impact your theological views?

Amill, idealist. None.

Why do trials occur? What is the purpose of suffering?

James 1:2,3~"My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience."

Romans 5:3-5~"And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope: And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us."

What role in leadership do you believe women should have within the church? In what context should they teach? Are there any restriction?

None~1st Corinthians 14:34-35; 1st Timothy 2:11-14. That being said, women can teach in area's like we are doing, and in a private settings when the church is not coming together in one place to hear the word of God, etc.

How should a Christian think about politics? What is the framework a believer should use to decide who to support politically?

Nothing wrong with voting, as long as it does not consumed our time and move us to speak evil of those in power even when we strongly disagree with them like I do with president Biden.

We should use God's word to help us to decide who we should vote for. When we do, it is clear we cannot support a party that kills babies and think nothing about it. We cannot support men who support Sodomy and even defends them......on and on we can go.

What role should counseling have in the life of a believer? What should counseling look like and in which contexts should it occur? Should we ever recommend a licensed counselor?

None! We have Solomon's proverbs that addresses every problems under heaven~why look to unbelievers for help? It is sinful to do so.

This is as brief as I can say what I have said.