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PSA: What is Implied in Christ's Substitution; What Death Did He Die?

Or, at least, about God being appeased, (by Christ's substitution).

And, @Carbon ...that is the language used by Scripture. We are reconciled to God.
Of course, reconcile is the language used by scripture. But do we understand what reconciliation is?
 
Primarily. . .

It's about us appeasing God, not about him appeasing us.

As if we ever could!

It's about reconciling us to him, not him to us (Eph 2:16).

Because it was we who were estranged. God was never estranged from His relationship with Himself, we were estranged because of sin.
 
The blood of Christ's sacrifice is interposed between God and the sinner, and in view of it, the wrath of God is turned aside. It has the effect, therefore, of warding off God's wrath from the sinner.


Christ's sacrifice turned aside God's wrath; that's not reconciliation?

RECONCI'LE, verb transitive [Latin reconcilio; re and concilio; con and calo, to call, Gr. The literal sense is to call back into union.]

1. To conciliate anew; to call back into union and friendship the affections which have been alienated; to restore to friendship or favor after estrangement; as, to reconcile men or parties that have been at variance.
Yes, that is reconciliation, but your definition doesn't designate which party is which. Such things can be said as, "Reconciliation is necessary", or, "That is a reconciling", or, "This problem needs to be reconciled", which also do not designate which party is the offended party.

But WE are the ones that have been alienated from God and need to be brought back into union —not God.
 
Of course, reconcile is the language used by scripture. But do we understand what reconciliation is?
No, I'm saying the language is that "WE are reconciled TO" God.

And no, none of us understand, but a little at best.
 
Yes, that is reconciliation, but your definition doesn't designate which party is which. Such things can be said as, "Reconciliation is necessary", or, "That is a reconciling", or, "This problem needs to be reconciled", which also do not designate which party is the offended party.

But WE are the ones that have been alienated from God and need to be brought back into union —not God.
Okay, thanks for your explanation. Enough on this from me anyway. :)
 
I was almost lost at the beginning of this thread. I had to look up the meaning of PSA.

"According to PSA, Jesus suffered the wrath of God by suffering the punishment for sins as a substitute for us instead of us taking that punishment ourselves."

I thought that the above quote described what God did for me.
 
The blood of Christ's sacrifice is interposed between God and the sinner, and in view of it, the wrath of God is turned aside.
It's not about interposition, any more than jail time is about interposition.

1) The wrath of God is the penalty for sin, it operates as does penalty (jail time) in our justice system.
You do the crime (law breaking/sin), you do the time (penalty/wrath of God).

The wrath of God poured out as a penalty for sin, which pouring out satisfies his justice in regard to that sin (as jail time satisfies justice in our legal system), has been poured out on Jesus instead.
Our penalty (suffering God's wrath) for sin has been paid by Jesus (who has done our "time" for us).

2) Satisfying God's justice on sin, and reconciliation of the sinner to God, are two different things, accomplished for the believer in one event, the cross.
It has the effect, therefore, of warding off God's wrath from the sinner.
It has the effect of paying the penalty, of "doing the time," for breaking his law.
God's wrath is the penalty for sin.

For those who believe in and trust on the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ, the penalty; i.e., the wrath of God's justice on sin is now satisfied, penalty paid in its payment by Jesus suffering that wrath for us, and we are thereby reconciled to God.
Christ's sacrifice turned aside God's wrath; that's not reconciliation?
Satisfying God's justice, paying the penalty of justice (his wrath) by Jesus is reconciliation only for those who believe in Jesus Christ and his atoning work for the remission of their sin.
RECONCI'LE, verb transitive [Latin reconcilio; re and concilio; con and calo, to call, Gr. The literal sense is to call back into union.]

1. To conciliate anew; to call back into union and friendship the affections which have been alienated; to restore to friendship or favor after estrangement; as, to reconcile men or parties that have been at variance.
Now, you should really be confused. . .
 
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Eleanor said:
It's not about interposition, any more than jail time is about interposition.
Now you are more confused. I don't think you understand.
@Eleanor, please explain what you mean there. WHAT is not about interposition? We're not getting it. Are you saying that though there is interposition, as in "substitutionary", the point you are making is about the wrath question? I'm missing something here.
 
Now you are more confused. I don't think you understand.
@Eleanor
Sister, I apologize for my cruel words. Please forgive me.

Often, I speak before I think. It may be me who is confused and not quite understanding.
 
Eleanor said:
It's not about interposition, any more than jail time is about interposition.

@Eleanor, please explain what you mean there. WHAT is not about interposition? We're not getting it. Are you saying that though there is interposition, as in "substitutionary", the point you are making is about the wrath question? I'm missing something here.
Sorry about that. . .and I can't promise that it will get any better. . .

There is no need for interposition of the wrath of God, it is not directed at the redeemed, for they have been reconciled by the death of Christ.
Only God's love is directed at the redeemed.
 
This thread will necessarily get into just what is human death —is it only physical death that is meant by, "The wages of sin is death"? That will not be Off-Topic. I also happily expect it also to divert into the meaning of "eternity", and its implications.

But, first, @Arial said, in another thread:

This is not exactly what Arial meant to address, but it provoked the thought in me that remains unresolved, concerning the meaning of one's death.

When I was growing up, it never entered my mind that Christ's death on the cross was only the passing of his physical life. I always assumed that he suffered every bit the penalty I would have had to pay, to include the infinite ('eternal') suffering of Hell and the Lake of Fire.

When my mother looked at me shocked one day at the notion that Jesus more than simply suffered horribly at the hands of 'legal' murderers, and endured the scorn and rejection of humanity, and lost his physical life, and asked in a dramatic whisper if I really thought he suffered the spiritual death I would be suffering if God was to count my sins against me, I said, yes, of course I believe that! She's gone, now, so I'm sure she knows better than I can understand it, what Christ did on my behalf.

But, I have no recourse but to think that Christ died precisely the death that all the redeemed would have died.

Was the 'mere', 'simple', fact of his temporal suffering and physical death, all that happened here?
Have you factored in that He was Trichotomous? What about his Soul; was it forsaken?

Matthew 26:38 ("My soul is consumed with sorrow to the point of death"),
 
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Yep. That's the reason for the thread.

Personally, I think it was much more than just the public humiliation of the Author of Life; and others have undergone worse physical suffering, I'm pretty sure. I think it was something hinted at in the point of the Father separating himself from his Son, 'forsaking' him, not only temporally, but in an infinite fact, (which (aside) itself is enough explanation as to why Jesus Christ can only be God, since he did away with that aspect of death, in the place of millions/billions who should have undergone it, and was resurrected from it!)
I always say, "When an Eternal Being suffers Eternal Punishment, the Eternal requirement of the Punishment is Mete through the Eternal Nature of his Being"...

This is how Christ's Passion was an Eternal Passion...

And it shows us that his Deity was Punished, or Jesus in his Humanity would still be being Punished...
 
Reconciliation, no, as far as I can tell.

Are you sure about that? Could you explain your meaning? I'm serious. I could be wrong, obviously, but I do not believe I am. And I appreciate your understanding.

I think you're right, Carbon. We are reconciled to God, yes, but God is also reconciled to us. We were once hostile to God, refusing to submit to his word and unable to do so. But in Christ we are reconciled, which includes God being reconciled to us—we went from loving sin and hating God to hating sin and loving God. Our inner being now delights in his word as waters of life.
 
Reconciliation ~ by ReverendRV * August 29

2nd Corinthians 5:18 KJV
; And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

When we think about Reconciliation today, we think of bad Marriages. There is only one verse in the Bible about reconciling your Marriage; ‘If she does leave him, let her remain single or else be reconciled to him. And the husband mustn’t leave his wife’. When it comes to something as important as Marriage, all we really need is one verse; right? But the Bible uses the word ‘Reconcile’ and its many derivatives often when it comes to our relationship with God; that must be even more important; and we mess that up even worse. The perfect Couple messed up their relationship with God, before they ever messed up their relationship with one another and with the lives of their children. Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating from the forbidden Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil; this caused God to want a Separation…

The Hebrew word in the Bible for Death means Separation from God. ~ Have you perfectly honored your parents? If they have ever had to spank you or put you on restriction, then it’s safe to say you haven’t. When this happened to you, were you eventually reconciled with that parent? You paid for your sin with a temporary punishment. But after King David had Uriah killed, he told God that “Against you alone have I Sinned”. Our Sins are often twofold, against God and Man; but when you Sin against someone who is Eternal, your punishment is eternal. ~ This was just one of the Ten Commandments, do we need more? I shouldn’t have to even ask you if you’ve Lied or Stolen, right? Stealing is against God and Man too, God owns the cattle on a thousand hills; this means you steal from God too. If He judges you by his standard, would you be innocent or guilty? Would you go to Heaven or to Hell? Does this bother you even a little?

You need to be reconciled with God. ~ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting Life! Jesus Christ was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born to the Virgin Mary, so he could bypass the Sin of our father Adam. He accrued a good record of Righteousness by never Sinning in his entire life; he must have been God to do that! He came to the world to die for the World, so Believers can be forgiven and cleansed to the point they can go to Heaven without leaving even one smudge when they get there. Jesus shed his blood on the Cross to take our punishment for what we did; and it killed him. But he arose from the grave to new Life and ascended to Heaven where he waits for God his Father to send him to usher the Living and the Dead home with him. We’re Saved by Grace through Faith in the Resurrected Savior Jesus Christ, without our trying to earn our Reconciliation. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God; and find a Church that teaches the Bible; and has a Ministry of Reconciliation which goes looking for the Lost…

2nd Corinthians 5:19 KJV; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
 
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