Preterism is true....no bones about it. Right?

[makesends]

That is a good question. The way the Bible puts it, we are...

Not so sure. By the sound of Song of Solomon, they are not the Bride, which we (the Church, the Body of Christ) are.

 

[TMSO]

Not so sure. By the sound of Song of Solomon, they are not the Bride, which we (the Church, the Body of Christ) are.

Then what about the marriage supper of the lamb. In parables, Jesus always likened the church to people going to a wedding. Don't get caught there without your wedding clothes...

 

[makesends]

Then what about the marriage supper of the lamb. In parables, Jesus always likened the church to people going to a wedding. Don't get caught there without your wedding clothes...

I don't get your point.

 

[TMSO]

I don't get your point.

The question of whether we are the bride or not. If we are attenting the marriage supper, then we aren't the bride, right?

 

[Red Baker]

That is a good question. The way the Bible puts it, we are...

You guys have no clue, you sound like my youngest set of grandchildren playing games of marriage, yet no no ideal who is who.

John 3:29 KJV​

He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

2nd Corinthians 11:2-3​

For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Revelation 21:1-2​

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

BRI'DEGROOM, noun A man newly married; or a man about to be married.

 

[makesends]

The question of whether we are the bride or not. If we are attenting the marriage supper, then we aren't the bride, right?

Wrong. How do you get that? The bride is always attending any wedding meal, as far as I know.

 

[TMSO]

Wrong. How do you get that? The bride is always attending any wedding meal, as far as I know.

Not simply attending.

 

[makesends]

Not simply attending.

Agreed, but I'm losing patience. Make your point.

 

[TMSO]

Agreed, but I'm losing patience. Make your point.

I did. You agreed so the point is made. We can't be sure whether we are the bride, or those attending the banquet, and the bride is someone/something else. I don't like to dig into it too much since the Bible is not clear on the point. If I find a point that clearly states exactly who the bride is, without interpretation, then I may reach the point of resting on the point. It is eaiser just to keep with the concept of the bride, and when it comes, I'll then know for sure, clearly, perhaps with a slap on the wrist?

 

[makesends]

I did. You agreed so the point is made. We can't be sure whether we are the bride, or those attending the banquet, and the bride is someone/something else. I don't like to dig into it too much since the Bible is not clear on the point. If I find a point that clearly states exactly who the bride is, without interpretation, then I may reach the point of resting on the point. It is eaiser just to keep with the concept of the bride, and when it comes, I'll then know for sure, clearly, perhaps with a slap on the wrist?

SMH

 

[3 Resurrections]

Of course we all know these bones are not really the bones of Paul, Peter and Stephen because they would have been resurrected in the Preterist rapture/resurrection at Christ second coming back in 70 AD. Right?

That is right. None of these so-called relics can possibly be the bones belonging to any believers who had died prior to AD 70. All those saints (including Paul, Peter, and Stephen) who had physically died prior to AD 70 were bodily-resurrected at Christ's second coming return and taken to heaven with Him at that time. Paul testified to both Felix and Timothy of this bodily resurrection that was "about to be" in his time. (Acts 24:15, 25, and 2 Timothy 4:1). I believe Paul's prediction came true as promised, and in the first-century time frame that Christ predicted in Matthew 16:27-28.

 

[CrowCross]

That is right. None of these so-called relics can possibly be the bones belonging to any believers who had died prior to AD 70. All those saints (including Paul, Peter, and Stephen) who had physically died prior to AD 70 were bodily-resurrected at Christ's second coming return and taken to heaven with Him at that time. Paul testified to both Felix and Timothy of this bodily resurrection that was "about to be" in his time. (Acts 24:15, 25, and 2 Timothy 4:1). I believe Paul's prediction came true as promised, and in the first-century time frame that Christ predicted in Matthew 16:27-28.

2 Tim 4:1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom:....how does that fit in with what Paul was talking about with the rapture/resurrection? Especially when we see Christ Kingdom is not here as of yet.

Same thing with Acts 24:15 and 25.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Paul told Felix in Acts 24:15 "Having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that there is ABOUT TO BE a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous;" Acts 14:25 further stated, "and he reasoning concerning righteousness, and temperance, and the judgment ABOUT TO BE, Felix, having become afraid, answered..."

There truly was sufficient reason for Felix to be fearful of a judgment and a resurrection of the dead that was soon to come in his own first century. If Paul had been speaking of a particular resurrection and judgment event down the road some 2,000 years and counting, there would have been no reason for a fearful response from Felix at that time.

Paul also told Timothy in 2 Timothy 4:1, "I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is ABOUT TO JUDGE LIVING AND DEAD at his manifestation AND HIS REIGN..."

Your sense of what that reign entails does not match scripture. Christ already reigns. Peter testified of Christ's regnal authority on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:29-36. Long ago, God made Jesus both Lord and Christ, and enthroned Him at His right hand. He continues to rule now in the midst of His enemies, whether they realize it or not.

 

[CrowCross]

Paul told Felix in Acts 24:15 "Having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that there is ABOUT TO BE a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous;" Acts 14:25 further stated, "and he reasoning concerning righteousness, and temperance, and the judgment ABOUT TO BE, Felix, having become afraid, answered..."

There truly was sufficient reason for Felix to be fearful of a judgment and a resurrection of the dead that was soon to come in his own first century. If Paul had been speaking of a particular resurrection and judgment event down the road some 2,000 years and counting, there would have been no reason for a fearful response from Felix at that time.

Paul also told Timothy in 2 Timothy 4:1, "I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is ABOUT TO JUDGE LIVING AND DEAD at his manifestation AND HIS REIGN..."

Your sense of what that reign entails does not match scripture. Christ already reigns. Peter testified of Christ's regnal authority on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:29-36. Long ago, God made Jesus both Lord and Christ, and enthroned Him at His right hand. He continues to rule now in the midst of His enemies, whether they realize it or not.

Christ Jesus isn't currently ruling the earth. Look around.

Secondly...where did it say "about to"?

 

[3 Resurrections]

Christ Jesus isn't currently ruling the earth. Look around.

Christ and all the scriptures contradict you. I believe in them rather than what my own eyes might try to tell me.

"All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth" (Matthew 28:18) was the bodily-resurrected Christ's clear statement of His enthroned position, even before His final ascension back to heaven in Acts 1.

"Yet have I set my King upon mine holy hill of Zion" (Psalms 2:6) was a prophecy which Paul in Acts 13:32-34 said had been fulfilled on the day of Christ's resurrection.

And of course, Peter announced on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:29-36 that in His resurrection, Christ had already been exalted by God and given the throne of His father David - seated at His right hand.

Christ also promised the twelve disciples in Matthew 19:28 that in the regeneration (His resurrection) when He sat upon the throne of His glory that they would be seated on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. This the apostles did in their role of establishing the doctrine of Christ and church practices in the days of the early church at Jerusalem. Judgment matters were settled by the apostles, as well as the commissioning of evangelists, choosing deacons, collecting and dispersing charitable gifts, providing care for widows in the church, clarifying the question regarding circumcision, etc. The fact that the apostles were performing in this role as judges in the early church at Jerusalem proves that Christ was already sitting on the throne of His glory as God's anointed "King of kings".

Even Daniel 7:13-14 predicted the day of Christ's resurrection-day ascension when He came with the clouds of heaven and was brought near before the Ancient of Days. "And there was given Him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

Secondly...where did it say "about to"?

I am quoting the text verbatim in those verses I wrote for you concerning the soon-to-occur bodily resurrection and judgment which Paul was describing. These are all from the YLT version, in case you are wondering. And the sense of imminence that "ABOUT TO" gives us matches Christ's prediction in Matthew 16:27-28 exactly: that He would return in the glory of His Father with the angels to give rewards to all according to their works - and while some of those He was directly speaking to were still alive to see that return.

 

[Red Baker]

Paul told Felix in Acts 24:15 "Having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, that there is ABOUT TO BE a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous;" Acts 14:25 further stated, "and he reasoning concerning righteousness, and temperance, and the judgment ABOUT TO BE, Felix, having become afraid, answered..."

That's not what Paul said to Felix, that's what you need him to say in order to support you doctrine of Preterism, it is sad to see old friends who have forsaken the truth, to allow themselves do corrupt scriptures in order to give their doctrine seemly support.

Paul said these words:

Acts 24:15​

“And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.”

Not about to be!

Concerning:

Acts 24:25​

“And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.” You added words as though they were part of this verse! If what you are saying is true, (which it is not) then do you truly think Felix would have said: "Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee."? I do not think so.

If Paul had been speaking of a particular resurrection and judgment event down the road some 2,000 years and counting, there would have been no reason for a fearful response from Felix at that time.

Felix trembled because of Paul's reasoning from the word of God concerning righteousness, temperance and judgement to come! The same that any man should do, even in our days. I have read concerning Jonathan Edward's sermon "Sinners in the hands of an angry God" and men did just as Felix did, and even with much more trembling and fear. Your point is proven to be a moot point in support of the Preterits doctrine of belittling, and even denying of a future resurrection.

Paul also told Timothy in 2 Timothy 4:1, "I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is ABOUT TO JUDGE LIVING AND DEAD at his manifestation AND HIS REIGN..."

There you go again, corrupting scriptures in order to support a lying doctrine.

2 Timothy 4:1​

“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;”

Jesus did not appear in 70 A. D. All this shall take place at the last day...Christ's appearing; resurrection of both the unrighteous, and the righteous; and the Great White Throne Judgement.

Your sense of what that reign entails does not match scripture. Christ already reigns. Peter testified of Christ's regnal authority on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:29-36. Long ago, God made Jesus both Lord and Christ, and enthroned Him at His right hand. He continues to rule now in the midst of His enemies, whether they realize it or not.

Agreed.

 

[Mr GLee]

From what I read according to the Preterist the return of Christ, resurrection and rapture occurred around 70 AD during or around the destruction of the Temple.
WIKI says it like this...."full preterists believe that the destruction of Jerusalem fulfilled all eschatological or "end times" events."

From what I read and understand the bones of Paul, Peter are on display. There is even the claim that Stephens body has been found.

Of course we all know these bones are not really the bones of Paul, Peter and Stephen because they would have been resurrected in the Preterist rapture/resurrection at Christ second coming back in 70 AD. Right?

Seems to represent reincarnation. Like the Cadaver trial of Pope Formosus 816 – 896) the bishop of Rome and ruler of the Papal States

 

[3 Resurrections]

That's not what Paul said to Felix, that's what you need him to say in order to support you doctrine of Preterism,

Yes, it IS what Paul said to Felix. Everyone reading your objections to my quoted verses using the term "ABOUT TO" from the YLT version (and other literal versions like it) should know that you are a rigid King-James-Only adherent. I used to be this also from my early childhood, but have come to realize, (since leaving that KJV-Only cult church you and I both shared), that the KJV was written by men who were well known as choosing a generic, politically-correct translation of some of the original languages just to please King James' preferences. To some extent, I sympathize with their situation, because they were desperately trying to get King James' authorization on a Bible in the people's own English language. This caused them to pick a translation choice of some words that would be the least controversial. Unfortunately, those generic KJV choices have blurred the exact meaning originally intended in many cases. Such as in this case of an imminent resurrection and judgment "ABOUT TO" happen at Christ's bodily second coming in the first century.

I don't even need to use the YLT to understand Christ's announcement in Matthew 16:27-28, that He would bodily return with the angels while some of those He was speaking to would still be alive in that first century. The KJV is also clear on this point, just as in the YLT. You just choose to ignore Christ's statement.

Your point is proven to be a moot point in support of the Preterits doctrine of belittling, and even denying of a future resurrection.

You have proved nothing by your personal objections. And you know very well that I do not deny or even "belittle" a future bodily resurrection. On the contrary, I constantly stress the reality of no less than THREE bodily resurrection events. One in AD 33 with Christ and the many Matthew 27:52-53 saints rising bodily from the graves around Jerusalem, one on AD 70's Pentecost day, (as predicted by Daniel's very precise 1,335th day), and one in AD 3033 in the seventh month when the Feast of Tabernacles would have ordinarily been celebrated at the end of Israel's agricultural harvest year. The "Lord of the harvest" has planned no less and no more than three group resurrection "harvests" for the bodies of His saints, to match the symbolism behind those three Israelite OT harvest feast celebrations.

The charge made in the original post is that Preterism denies that the bodies of deceased saints will rise. But this is not universally true of Preterism as a whole. Some Full Preterists do teach this - and of course they are in error on this point.

 

[Mr GLee]

Aside: Who are the bridesmaids?

I would offer.

She is the chaste virgin bride the church made up of members like Timothy .

Virgins who have no other gods before the living God according to his written law (sola scriptura)

Paul a member of the chaste virgin bride suffered in pain of birth holding out the gospel seed until Christ was formed in Timothy another member of the chaste virgin bride. .

Sexual sin is another matter. The word virgin is used in two ways .Satan would make it all together one in the same. . removing the spiritual understanding .The accuser of the brethren making it all about shame .Lust flesh, lust of the eye Again sexual sin LGBTQ2s+ coming out of the closet of privacy. . . another doctrine .

Remember the father of lies has no understanding of faith the unseen eternal things of Christ. Search the spiritual understanding of the parables.

Galatian 4;19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Galatian 4;26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin (un-married woman ) to Christ.

1 Corinthians 7:36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin,(un-married women )if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.

 

[CrowCross]

Christ and all the scriptures contradict you. I believe in them rather than what my own eyes might try to tell me.

"All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth" (Matthew 28:18) was the bodily-resurrected Christ's clear statement of His enthroned position, even before His final ascension back to heaven in Acts 1.

"Yet have I set my King upon mine holy hill of Zion" (Psalms 2:6) was a prophecy which Paul in Acts 13:32-34 said had been fulfilled on the day of Christ's resurrection.

And of course, Peter announced on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:29-36 that in His resurrection, Christ had already been exalted by God and given the throne of His father David - seated at His right hand.

Christ also promised the twelve disciples in Matthew 19:28 that in the regeneration (His resurrection) when He sat upon the throne of His glory that they would be seated on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. This the apostles did in their role of establishing the doctrine of Christ and church practices in the days of the early church at Jerusalem. Judgment matters were settled by the apostles, as well as the commissioning of evangelists, choosing deacons, collecting and dispersing charitable gifts, providing care for widows in the church, clarifying the question regarding circumcision, etc. The fact that the apostles were performing in this role as judges in the early church at Jerusalem proves that Christ was already sitting on the throne of His glory as God's anointed "King of kings".

Even Daniel 7:13-14 predicted the day of Christ's resurrection-day ascension when He came with the clouds of heaven and was brought near before the Ancient of Days. "And there was given Him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."


I am quoting the text verbatim in those verses I wrote for you concerning the soon-to-occur bodily resurrection and judgment which Paul was describing. These are all from the YLT version, in case you are wondering. And the sense of imminence that "ABOUT TO" gives us matches Christ's prediction in Matthew 16:27-28 exactly: that He would return in the glory of His Father with the angels to give rewards to all according to their works - and while some of those He was directly speaking to were still alive to see that return.

If you say so.