Perseverance of the Saints, and Hebrews 6:4-6; 10:26-31

[makesends]

I see it all as part of the simple act of "tasting" (getting a look at) salvation rest in Jesus Christ and refusing to enter it,
paralleled to the Israelites' simple act of "tasting" (Nu 13:26-28) the nature of Canaan rest (Dt 25:19) and refusing to enter it.

I see the parallel as giving us the correct way to understand Heb 10:26-31.

Thank you. I love good reason.

 

[Mr GLee]

If you meant your first question to restate the point of the OP, great. Close enough. That restatement was cogent and relevant. But you don't answer it. You do tell what is better, and truly enough, I suppose, but you still don't answer the question. Explain your quote and your statements —How do they answer the question? I'm not the first one to tell you that your writing is hard to follow. I rarely understand just what you are trying to say, and I doubt I'm the first to tell you it isn't only your language difficulty that makes this so.

You talk as though one should be able to figure out what you are getting at and apply it to their lives, or doctrines, or mindset, or thoughts when reading scripture, or maybe something else, I don't know.

The closest I saw, besides the first sentence of this post, is when you said, "Why crucify him over and over and call that perseverance?" But besides using some of the words of the text being discussed and a word from the title of the OP, I don't see how you are relating that to the subject of the OP. And who is saying that those being discussed in Hebrews, (or anyone else), is calling the crucifying-over-and-over, "perseverance"???

Hi thanks sorry for any misunderstandings.

I would look to the foundation of the doctrine "dead works" Human will . Hebrew 6;1

God is not served by human will. He can sent a unbeliever to preach the gospel just as easily as one that does have new born again faith.

What is lacking is having tasted of the will of God but not entering one's soul and therefore no power to persevere to the end ..
Remember it is God working in us to both to hear and do His God works in us . He makes our heart soft.

The key is both to hear and to do not just tasted but empowered to do it persevere to the end

Philippians 2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

A companion verse in Job .Again teaching God is not served by human will in any way shape or form. Our God who perverses to end either does all the work of salvation or he accredited with none

Job23:12-14 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

To desire (to will) and persevere finish it (even that he does )

Job 23:14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him

Some like Jonas murmured when Christ did perform a work,knowing God would save the Ninevites who had no previous knowledge. They did not know their left from the right when it came to spiritual understanding of Christ

The person in Hebrews 6 tasted as if it was literal bread not given the understanding hid in that parble .

Matthew 15:16-18King James Version16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

Same with those in Matthew 7 God did not say they did not perform the work but that he did not send them He did not know them that taste but do not take in like Jesus persevering to the end finish the work

John 4:33-35King James Version33 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work

The law of Christ's work of his faith both to hear the will "Let there be? and finish it :it was very God good"

God is not served by human. . will dead works

 

[makesends]

Hi thanks sorry for any misunderstandings.

I would look to the foundation of the doctrine "dead works" Human will . Hebrew 6;1

God is not served by human will. He can sent a unbeliever to preach the gospel just as easily as one that does have new born again faith.

What is lacking is having tasted of the will of God but not entering one's soul and therefore no power to persevere to the end ..
Remember it is God working in us to both to hear and do His God works in us . He makes our heart soft.

The key is both to hear and to do not just tasted but empowered to do it persevere to the end

Philippians 2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

A companion verse in Job .Again teaching God is not served by human will in any way shape or form. Our God who perverses to end either does all the work of salvation or he accredited with none

Job23:12-14 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food.But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

To desire (to will) and persevere finish it (even that he does )

Job 23:14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him

Some like Jonas murmured when Christ did perform a work,knowing God would save the Ninevites who had no previous knowledge. They did not know their left from the right when it came to spiritual understanding of Christ

The person in Hebrews 6 tasted as if it was literal bread not given the understanding hid in that parble .

Matthew 15:16-18King James Version16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

Same with those in Matthew 7 God did not say they did not perform the work but that he did not send them He did not know them that taste but do not take in like Jesus persevering to the end finish the work

John 4:33-35King James Version33 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat? Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work

The law of Christ's work of his faith both to hear the will "Let there be? and finish it :it was very God good"

God is not served by human. . will dead works

Very good. Thanks!

Let me try to summarize, applying what you are saying to the OP.

The difference between the person who all are warned in these two passages not to be, as over against the one who does persevere, is not the content of what they experience, but the presence of the Spirit of God, and its power within them —even apart from the promises of blessing resulting from surface dynamics, or from attendance to spiritual formulae.

 

[donadams]

I'm not quite sure this verse is about salvation but rather "blessing".

Heb 6 starts off with.....1 Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity,

I'm sure you have heard a preacher say...we need to see what the word therefore is there for....with that we need to look at the prior chapters.

The verse reflects on Moses and the promised land and the generation that lost their "blessing" of going into the promised land.

Heb 1:14 the whole book is about salvation and 6:1 says perfection

 

[donadams]

If Moses was lost why is he at the mount of transfiguration?

Why is Jesus communicating with the dead?

 

[donadams]

I just don't get where you can use the perseverance of the saints in these passages. There are no saints in them.

How about heb 1:14?

 

[donadams]

Chuck Missler has a lot to say on Heb 6.

You are correct
"It isn't even discussing whether or not one can lose their salvation."

No one who truly has salvation ((heaven)) can lose it
But here ((on earth)) we have grace and charity and the spirit and we can lose them! And this verse refers to final apostasy or rejection of Christ and His grace

Thks

 

[Mr GLee]

If Moses was lost why is he at the mount of transfiguration?

Why is Jesus communicating with the dead?

The Son man Jesus was communicating with the Father who spoke from heaven not seen Not a shadow

Moses and Elisa as the law and the prophets together represent the living word of God (sola scriptura) The Father said hear it as it is writen in that parable

A vison shadow. . not dying flesh and blood . Their flesh has long returned to the dust. . worm food.

Peter our brother in the Lord supported Satan's " surely you will not die" He said John will not die.

One of the many as oral traditons of dying mankind

Jesus said if every time he exposed a lie we would need a bigger planet to hold the volumes that could of been written

On warning against the law of the fathers, oral tradition of dying mankind .I would think is enough? What do you think?

 

[CrowCross]

Heb 1:14 the whole book is about salvation and 6:1 says perfection

Do you have a commentary on this or just a statement?

If Moses was lost why is he at the mount of transfiguration?

I never said Moses was lost...Moses and that generation missed the "blessing" of the promised land.

Why is Jesus communicating with the dead?

no

 

[CrowCross]

No one who truly has salvation ((heaven)) can lose it
But here ((on earth)) we have grace and charity and the spirit and we can lose them! And this verse refers to final apostasy or rejection of Christ and His grace

Thks

Where does the bible say we can lose salvation?
If it does....what must one do to lose salvation?

 

[Mr GLee]

If Moses was lost why is he at the mount of transfiguration?

Why is Jesus communicating with the dead?

Its not the Son of man Jesus that communes with the dead But is our the invisible head our Holy Father. he considers dying mankind dead He gives them the light of the gospel the light of life

Not the living seeking the dead (patron saints ).It would seem you have in backwards . . . abomination

Isaiah 8: 19:20And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living (God) to the dead?(dying mankind) .To the law and to the testimonysola scriptura) if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[donadams]

Do you have a commentary on this or just a statement?

I never said Moses was lost...Moses and that generation missed the "blessing" of the promised land.

no

Moses did not die?

 

[donadams]

Where does the bible say we can lose salvation?
If it does....what must one do to lose salvation?

I said “no one who truly has salvation ((heaven)) can lose it”!

 

[CrowCross]

Moses did not die?

Huh????

I said “no one who truly has salvation ((heaven)) can lose it”!

Never mind.

 

[Mr GLee]

Huh????

Never mind.

I think its because they are taught mankind does not really die .A lie from the beginning. Rather its off to Limbo for the younger sinners and Purgatory for the more mature sinner,

If men did really did die which they do it would destroy the legion of patron saints.(3500 and rising disembodied worker with a familiar spirit (the dead)

Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Peter as a example of what not to do. Follow a law of dying mankind called fathers .Peter tried to trap a spirit in a box .

Missing the whole point of the parable (obey sola scriptura )

Peter the denier tried to pull that off more than once. Once rebuked the invisible head the Holy Father. empower by Satan Not you lord me I will be the head I will rise to the clouds of glory

Mathew 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee

Peter the third time of denying the lord This time Jesus infallibly informs us that every time Perter would choose to follow after the oral traditons of dying mankind. If he would of record the lies .Christians would need a bigger plant to hold the volumes upon volumes of oute right lies .

Catholics l would try and convince dying mankind that portion proves oral traditons have there place in the worship of our unseen head Christ our husband.

John 21: 23-25 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

 

[donadams]

I said: “Why is Jesus communicating with the dead”?
You said: “no” so I suppose you mean Moses did not die

 

[Mr GLee]

I said: “Why is Jesus communicating with the dead”?
You said: “no” so I suppose you mean Moses did not die

Moses corrupted flesh and blood returned to he dust thousands of years ago

Satan is still bringing with all power to deceive lying signs and wonders,.

 

[makesends]

If Moses was lost why is he at the mount of transfiguration?

Why is Jesus communicating with the dead?

I've been gone for a bit ...who said Moses was lost? I need some context.

(The fact his GPS continued for forty years to say, "recalculating", doesn't mean he was lost!)

 

[donadams]

I've been gone for a bit ...who said Moses was lost? I need some context.

(The fact his GPS continued for forty years to say, "recalculating", doesn't mean he was lost!)

Cc in #3

 

[makesends]

Cc in #3

@CrowCross in post 3 doesn't say that Moses was lost. He says that Moses lost the blessing (that he would have had, had he (and Israel) been entirely obedient) of entry into the promised land.