Noah's Ark Found??

[Frank Robert]

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/noa...-year-old-boat-shaped-mound-in-turkey-4524539

Archaeologists in Turkey have discovered what they believe to be ruins of a Noah's Ark-like vessel after excavating a geological site, the New York Post reported. The Mount Ararat and Noah's Ark Research Team is comprised of three Turkish and American universities, and their project began in 2021.​

​

The team extracted aged rock and soil samples from a geological formation in Turkey, which they believe contained the ruins of the vessel. Their findings also determined that ''clayey materials, marine materials, and seafood'' were present in the area between 5500 and 3000 BC, according to the Turkish newspaper Hürriyet.​

​

The Durupinar formation lies in the Doğubayazıt district of Ağrı, located less than two miles from the Iran-Turkey border. It is a 538-foot geographic feature made of limonite, believed by some locals to be the remnants of Noah's Ark.​

​

According to legend, Noah loaded two of every animal onto a 150-meter-long ark to save them from apocalyptic flooding that drowned the Earth. In the Book of Genesis, it was the mountains of Ararat in what is now eastern Turkey where Noah's Ark came to rest after the flood.​

​

The mountain stands at 16,500 feet and is carved out like an ark.​

​

...While dozens of researchers and individuals have claimed to have located the ark, no one has ever been able to produce definitive evidence. The holy texts of three religions, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, have all made references to Noah's Ark.​

 

[CrowCross]

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/noa...-year-old-boat-shaped-mound-in-turkey-4524539

Archaeologists in Turkey have discovered what they believe to be ruins of a Noah's Ark-like vessel after excavating a geological site, the New York Post reported. The Mount Ararat and Noah's Ark Research Team is comprised of three Turkish and American universities, and their project began in 2021.​

​

The team extracted aged rock and soil samples from a geological formation in Turkey, which they believe contained the ruins of the vessel. Their findings also determined that ''clayey materials, marine materials, and seafood'' were present in the area between 5500 and 3000 BC, according to the Turkish newspaper Hürriyet.​

​

The Durupinar formation lies in the Doğubayazıt district of Ağrı, located less than two miles from the Iran-Turkey border. It is a 538-foot geographic feature made of limonite, believed by some locals to be the remnants of Noah's Ark.​

​

According to legend, Noah loaded two of every animal onto a 150-meter-long ark to save them from apocalyptic flooding that drowned the Earth. In the Book of Genesis, it was the mountains of Ararat in what is now eastern Turkey where Noah's Ark came to rest after the flood.​

​

The mountain stands at 16,500 feet and is carved out like an ark.​

​

...While dozens of researchers and individuals have claimed to have located the ark, no one has ever been able to produce definitive evidence. The holy texts of three religions, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, have all made references to Noah's Ark.​

The article above states....
"While dozens of researchers and individuals have claimed to have located the ark, no one has ever been able to produce definitive evidence."......I disagree.

One of the evidences that supports the YEC's view has been lifted from the bible.

If one reads an account in the bile...then goes looking for the remains of the account and finds it...the bible gains even more credence.

In the bible there is an account of a sea worhty vessel called Noahs Ark. People have read about it for several thousand years.
People have looked for it where the bible says it landed....Genesis 8:4 informs us that...the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat.

So they looked...and here's what has been discoverd as presented in this article
FIGURE 1. AERIAL PHOTOGRAPH OF AN OBJECT, SHAPED LIKE A SHIP, IN THE ARARAT MOUNTAINS, EASTERN TURKEY, 1959,

The Old earth Secular geologist claimed it was simply a natural phenomena...and walked away.
About a year after taking the photo an expedition went looking for it.

The Ark like anomaly was found and over the years investigated....as the link above shows.

They employed scientific techniques such as metal detection and deep penatrating radar to peer underground...and discovered a ship.

The article tells us....On one occasion, the radar equipment picked up what appeared to be a square shaped object within the ships remains. The specimen was dug up by the Turkish military at that time, and later analyzed by Galbraith Laboratories in the United States. The laboratory testing confirmed that the specimen contained organic carbon, indicating that the material was not rock, but was once composed of living material, consistent with petrified wood. (Fig. 4).

The natural phenomena that the OE Geologist walked away from turns out to not be rock. Metallic objects were also discovered at the Ark site....see figure 5 in the link provided above.

Figure six shows a very ship like pattern when the locations metal was connected....quite amazing.
It was then concluded that the object was the remains of a ship, which exactly matched the Biblical description, and dimensions of Noah’s Ark.

As time went on the rib indentations of the ships were discovered and investigated. Figures 8,9 and 10

As time went on they eventually took 3D images...and the hull of the ship became apparent. Figure 14.

Once again the physical biblical description was realized...“WITH LOWER, SECOND, AND THIRD STORIES SHALT THOU MAKE IT.” (GEN 6:16)
Once again the biblical details were a match....Location, size, shape, (figure 19) decks, materials

The article goes on to explain many more biblically predected features and draws several conclusions. One which is:

It would be a physical impossibility, for a ship the size of the Ark, to drift into the Ararat Mountains, and run aground, 2000 metres above the present elevation of sea level, without water being present. Yet the Ark is not millions of years old. The fossils and sediment on top of which the Ark came to rest, had to have been deposited by the same water, which carried the Ark into that area.

For those who don't believe the bible and follow an Old earth narrative....if it's not Noahs Ark...what is it?

 

[Fred]

If Noah's ark has been found or will one day be found, I just hope people don't begin to worship it.

 

[CrowCross]

The following statement made me question it...

"Their findings also determined that ''clayey materials, marine materials, and seafood'' were present in the area between 5500 and 3000 BC, according to the Turkish newspaper Hürriyet."

I'm not quite sure what dating method they used (C14?)...but, I would expect the ages to be much older...that is if the material they tested was pre-flood material.

 

[Frank Robert]

For those who don't believe the bible and follow an Old earth narrative....if it's not Noahs Ark...what is it?

It is ok to admit we don't know when we don't know. What has been found is suggestive. Unfortunately, suggestive is not confirmatory evidence.

If Noah's Ark were true everyone living today would be descendants of Noah's family which in turn would be evident in our DNA. Yet, the genetic evidence is not consistent with descending from a single family that survived a global flood as described in the Old Testament. Instead. What we know from of anthropology, archaeology, and genetics is that we have diverse and ancient origins.

 

[Mr GLee]

I am not geologian. I remember reading that many geological places were named after words used in the bible like four rivers going out from the garden going moving toward the direction of the sun. Men had given them names. They could be true but have no value in hearing the good news . There was a great movement because of the flood. we understand God by the things not seed using that seen to demonstrate his creative power.

It's not like today GPS will guide the way . Unlike the Christian GPS . . .God's Positioning Scripture. . . . . recalculating . . . .U turn, repent, return to me slow down or life will pass you . . . . . by LOL .

 

[CrowCross]

It is ok to admit we don't know when we don't know. What has been found is suggestive. Unfortunately, suggestive is not confirmatory evidence.

If Noah's Ark were true everyone living today would be descendants of Noah's family which in turn would be evident in our DNA. Yet, the genetic evidence is not consistent with descending from a single family that survived a global flood as described in the Old Testament. Instead. What we know from of anthropology, archaeology, and genetics is that we have diverse and ancient origins.

The genetics would have been from Noah and his wife....who genetics were passed along to their sons.... Shem, Ham, and Japheth....each son then married into genetics that pertained to their wives and their families genetics...the genetics in itself would have been similar yet different and consisting of up to 5 or even more different yet human DNA sources.

I would not suspect that the genetics would be consistent with descending from a single family that survived a global flood as described in the Old Testament....as the diversity of the wives genetics should also have been presented.

To go off road a bit...Gen 6 tells us.... 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

It's possible one of Noahs sons wife had the genetics of the "Nephilium" to some extent and when she had children with one of Noahs sons that genetics was passed along...producing "giants' such as those who were the the descendants of Anak.

 

[EarlyActs]

It is ok to admit we don't know when we don't know. What has been found is suggestive. Unfortunately, suggestive is not confirmatory evidence.

If Noah's Ark were true everyone living today would be descendants of Noah's family which in turn would be evident in our DNA. Yet, the genetic evidence is not consistent with descending from a single family that survived a global flood as described in the Old Testament. Instead. What we know from of anthropology, archaeology, and genetics is that we have diverse and ancient origins.

Not according to Carlson, at Princeton. He says it explains the DNA groupings of the DNA bottleneck that happened about 5000 ago. See Tacket IS GENESIS HISTORY? and Rives Ministry science collection.

The Cataclysm does not hinge on the Ark, of course, there are tons of other phenomenon.

We must remember that even if some tenuous problems are found, the self-conception of the Bible is not that it is 'historically-false but spiritually-true' as neo-orthodox denominations have claimed since the early 1900s.

 

[Frank Robert]

Carlson, at Princeton. He says it explains the DNA groupings of the DNA bottleneck that happened about 5000 ago.

You apparently didn't notice that the results were published solely in creationist journals.

See: https://www.icr.org/article/y-chromosome-study-confirms-genesis-flood-timeline

 

[Frank Robert]

We must remember that even if some tenuous problems are found, the self-conception of the Bible is not that it is 'historically-false but spiritually-true' as Neo-orthodox denominations have claimed since the early 1900s.

The historical-metaphorical interpretation of the Bible centers on the spiritual and religious lessens from the text as understood by people of the time.

 

[Frank Robert]

The genetics would have been from Noah and his wife....who genetics were passed along to their sons.... Shem, Ham, and Japheth....each son then married into genetics that pertained to their wives and their families genetics...the genetics in itself would have been similar yet different and consisting of up to 5 or even more different yet human DNA sources.

I would not suspect that the genetics would be consistent with descending from a single family that survived a global flood as described in the Old Testament....as the diversity of the wives genetics should also have been presented.

From a biological perspective, the idea of repopulating the Earth with only eight individuals is not feasible, as it would result in severe genetic bottlenecking. A small population with limited genetic diversity would be highly susceptible to genetic disorders and diseases, making long-term survival and repopulation of the Earth problematic.

Bottom line: the Earth's human population and biodiversity could not have originated from such a small group of individuals.

The animal pairs from the ark would have suffered from the same fate as Noah's family.

To go off road a bit...Gen 6 tells us.... 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

It's possible one of Noahs sons wife had the genetics of the "Nephilium" to some extent and when she had children with one of Noahs sons that genetics was passed along...producing "giants' such as those who were the the descendants of Anak.

How did the Nephilim survive the flood?

 

[EarlyActs]

The historical-metaphorical interpretation of the Bible centers on the spiritual and religious lessens from the text as understood by people of the time.

So what? That's neo-orthodox. Exactly how do you 'bury' the people of the world as a religious lesson for being utterly evil but not actually bury them? Why is this the explanation for such an event the world-over? "After the 'time of change' when the mountains rose, men were no longer wolves."--Quileute (NW USA) elder retelling their history, roughly 10,000 year oral tradition.
"Alaska's mega-flora was suddenly encased in ice."--AK State museum graphic. So apart from any oral tradition, the science says it went quickly from tropical to a mile of ice. Like Job says: "his voice turns the ocean to ice."

How irrational is Christ for saying that the destruction of Jerusalem 40 years out would be like the destructive days of Noah? Why would believe anything 'spiritual' by the guy? You see, the deists and divinity-deniers of the 19th century were quite shocked when Pastor Holford circulated around England, explaining a rational Christ with his 40 year prediction intact and historic.

As will be found end-to-end, the Bible is a unity of history and explanation, not a neo-orthodoxy. It is called historical-grammatical interp.

How do you bury/drown the Egyptian pursuit army in the Red Sea and escape but not actually bury/drown them but then memorialize it in your people's literature?

 

[CrowCross]

From a biological perspective, the idea of repopulating the Earth with only eight individuals is not feasible, as it would result in severe genetic bottlenecking. A small population with limited genetic diversity would be highly susceptible to genetic disorders and diseases, making long-term survival and repopulation of the Earth problematic.

Bottom line: the Earth's human population and biodiversity could not have originated from such a small group of individuals.

So you say.

Perhaps todays corrupt DNA couldn't stand a chance...but 4,500 years ago closer to creation and the perfect genetic body....I doubt what you say.

The animal pairs from the ark would have suffered from the same fate as Noah's family.

How did the Nephilim survive the flood?

Either through one of Noahs sons wives genetics lke I pointed out in the past thread....or the angels pulled off another Gen 6.

 

[Mr GLee]

From a biological perspective, the idea of repopulating the Earth with only eight individuals is not feasible, as it would result in severe genetic bottlenecking. A small population with limited genetic diversity would be highly susceptible to genetic disorders and diseases, making long-term survival and repopulation of the Earth problematic.

Bottom line: the Earth's human population and biodiversity could not have originated from such a small group of individuals.

The animal pairs from the ark would have suffered from the same fate as Noah's family.

If God did populate with two people .Why not populate with 8 seeing he controls corruption?

How did the Nephilim survive the flood?

The sons of God born again believers were violating the passing on the spiritual seed "Christ" used to represent (the second birth) They were unevenly yoked with non believers daughters of men

Nephilim giants' moved of faith are the renown . Used 9 time to indicate the strength of God or that of mankind. It has nothing to do with height more to do with unseen power with David

Numbers 16:2And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown:

Isaiah 14:20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

The renowned as sons of God called Nephilim (giants of faith) fought against the renowned of the enemy In one occasion God's renown David battles against the renown of the enemy Goliath. Being strength by faith it took one little round stone right between the eyes.

Again the flood is used to represent the baptism our second birth Formerly the environment was watered from the earth up . After the demonstration the flood the gospel is reckoned as coming from above marked with a rainbow Before not a cloud in the sky. Changing the life expectancy from hundreds of years until the Psalms 70 to 80 years

The warning still aplies today

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?



.

 

[Frank Robert]

So what? That's neo-orthodox.

I have no objections to what you call it. Biblical scholars refer to this type of interpretation as historical-metaphorical.

how do you 'bury' the people of the world as a religious lesson for being utterly evil but not actually bury them? Why is this the explanation for such an event the world-over? "After the 'time of change' when the mountains rose, men were no longer wolves."--Quileute (NW USA) elder retelling their history, roughly 10,000 year oral tradition.

Their oral tradition contains myths which provided a moral compass for the Hebrews of the time. The greatest contribution the Hebrews made was the worship of one God which set them apart from other Mesopotamian peoples of the time.

"Alaska's mega-flora was suddenly encased in ice."--AK State museum graphic. So apart from any oral tradition, the science says it went quickly from tropical to a mile of ice. Like Job says: "his voice turns the ocean to ice."

Anything that resembles science in the OT is coincidental. The Bible is NOT a science book, it is a religious book.

How irrational is Christ for saying that the destruction of Jerusalem 40 years out would be like the destructive days of Noah?

Jesus was a Jewish preacher who likely used Noah's flood as a teaching story. (A teaching story is a narrative that has been deliberately created as a vehicle for the transmission of wisdom.)

Why would believe anything 'spiritual' by the guy? You see, the deists and divinity-deniers of the 19th century were quite shocked when Pastor Holford circulated around England, explaining a rational Christ with his 40 year prediction intact and historic.

As will be found end-to-end, the Bible is a unity of history and explanation, not a neo-orthodoxy. It is called historical-grammatical interp.

Call it whatever you desire, it does not matter as it has nothing to do with living your faith in Christ.

How do you bury/drown the Egyptian pursuit army in the Red Sea and escape but not actually bury/drown them but then memorialize it in your people's literature?

The Exodus is a teaching story/narrative, for the origin myth of the Israelites leaving slavery in Biblical Egypt to form there own nation through the strength of God who chose them as his people.

It is likely that there was a sort of Exodus. The Song of Miriam, which is the oldest text in the Bible refers to it but never mentions how many people were involved in the Exodus, and it never speaks of the whole nation of Israel. It just refers to a people leaving Egypt.

 

[Frank Robert]

If God did populate with two people .Why not populate with 8 seeing he controls corruption?

Because that is not how it happened.

The sons of God born again believers were violating the passing on the spiritual seed "Christ" used to represent (the second birth) They were unevenly yoked with non believers daughters of men

Nephilim giants' moved of faith are the renown . Used 9 time to indicate the strength of God or that of mankind. It has nothing to do with height more to do with unseen power with David

Numbers 16:2And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown:

Isaiah 14:20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

The renowned as sons of God called Nephilim (giants of faith) fought against the renowned of the enemy In one occasion God's renown David battles against the renown of the enemy Goliath. Being strength by faith it took one little round stone right between the eyes.

You have not said how the Nephilim survived the flood.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

I believe in living my faith in Christ which has nothing to do with the way I interpret the OT.

 

[Frank Robert]

The article above states....
"While dozens of researchers and individuals have claimed to have located the ark, no one has ever been able to produce definitive evidence."......I disagree.

One of the evidences that supports the YEC's view has been lifted from the bible.

If one reads an account in the bile...then goes looking for the remains of the account and finds it...the bible gains even more credence.

In the bible there is an account of a sea worhty vessel called Noahs Ark. People have read about it for several thousand years.
People have looked for it where the bible says it landed....Genesis 8:4 informs us that...the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat.

So they looked...and here's what has been discoverd as presented in this article
FIGURE 1. AERIAL PHOTOGRAPH OF AN OBJECT, SHAPED LIKE A SHIP, IN THE ARARAT MOUNTAINS, EASTERN TURKEY, 1959,

The Old earth Secular geologist claimed it was simply a natural phenomena...and walked away.
About a year after taking the photo an expedition went looking for it.

The Ark like anomaly was found and over the years investigated....as the link above shows.

The Bible tells us the Ark landed on “the mountains of Ararat” halfway through the Flood on day 150 (Genesis 8:4), rather than on Mt. Ararat itself, which is mostly a recent volcano that has erupted numerous times in recent history.

The Ark like anomaly was found and over the years investigated....as the link above shows.

They employed scientific techniques such as metal detection and deep penatrating radar to peer underground...and discovered a ship.

Here is an article from Answers in Genesis by Dr. Andrew A. Snelling

Dr Andrew A. Snelling has a Ph.D. in geology from The University of Sydney, Sydney, Australia, for his research on the mineralogy and geochemistry of the Koongarra uranium deposit in Australia’s Northern Territory. For many years he worked in the mining industry as a field and research geologist, and was a consultant to the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation in a collaborative international research program involving the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, several U.S. universities, the UK Atomic Energy Research Establishment, the Japanese Atomic Energy Research Institute, the International Atomic Energy Agency and the European Nuclear Energy Agency. For more than 25 years he has been involved in full-time research on the global geologic evidences that confirm the Genesis historical account of the worldwide cataclysmic Flood. He has also conducted detailed technical research into all the radioactive dating methods for rocks and fossils, and along with the research of others has demonstrated conclusively that these methods are erroneous and grossly misleading. He has served for more than 25 years with Christian ministries in Australia and the U.S. that stand for the absolute authority of God’s Word, and is currently the Director of Research for Answers in Genesis and the Creation Museum in northern Kentucky, U.S.A.​

​

https://answersingenesis.org/noahs-...ood-recently-found-on-mt-ararat-from-the-ark/

​

"As a scientist I am always cautious and somewhat skeptical of bold and spectacular claims, especially when made in defense of the Bible, yet as a Bible-believing Christian the thought of this wooden structure being the remains of the Ark was tantalizing. Friends in Hong Kong who helped arrange this confidential conference call were equally cautious but excited. We were all looking for the unequivocal evidence that would convince us that this was indeed the remains of the long-sought-after Ark. Such a discovery would be another powerful witness to the truth and authority of God’s Word.1​

​

These Chinese members of the discovery team wanted to determine if I would be sympathetic to their claims, and able to participate with them in their planned press conference, to appear as an “expert witness” to corroborate their potential discovery. I would have seriously considered their request if they could convince me that this discovery was genuine. I was already skeptical though, because the Bible tells us the Ark landed on “the mountains of Ararat” halfway through the Flood on day 150 (Genesis 8:4), rather than on Mt. Ararat itself, which is mostly a recent volcano that has erupted numerous times in recent history​

​

Even so, during our conference call I asked whether any scientific tests had already been conducted. It was quickly indicated that samples of wood from the structures on Mt. Ararat had been tested for radiocarbon (C-14). My curiosity was naturally aroused, as such tests would potentially be a good indication of the structure’s possible antiquity. So without any hesitation on their part, these Chinese members of the discovery team tabled their full compilation of C-14 test results, and sent me a copy.​

​

What I saw immediately convinced me, that if these C-14 test results were obtained on wood samples from the structure they had discovered on Mt. Ararat, then they had definitely NOT discovered the Ark. I graciously sought to explain this to our conference call hosts, giving the reasons for my coming to that conclusion. I also strongly urged them to have further C-14 testing done on their wood samples, and other scientific tests performed on samples of a rope and white pellets we’d seen in the video footage and photos. I even suggested that they delay their press conference until such time as extra scientific tests had been done."​

 

[CrowCross]

The Bible tells us the Ark landed on “the mountains of Ararat” halfway through the Flood on day 150 (Genesis 8:4), rather than on Mt. Ararat itself, which is mostly a recent volcano that has erupted numerous times in recent history.

So what???? Whether the ark landed on the actual what we call the "Mountain of Ararat" or miles down what became the Ararat mountain range makes no difference.

Here is an article from Answers in Genesis by Dr. Andrew A. Snelling

Dr Andrew A. Snelling has a Ph.D. in geology from The University of Sydney, Sydney, Australia, for his research on the mineralogy and geochemistry of the Koongarra uranium deposit in Australia’s Northern Territory. For many years he worked in the mining industry as a field and research geologist, and was a consultant to the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation in a collaborative international research program involving the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, several U.S. universities, the UK Atomic Energy Research Establishment, the Japanese Atomic Energy Research Institute, the International Atomic Energy Agency and the European Nuclear Energy Agency. For more than 25 years he has been involved in full-time research on the global geologic evidences that confirm the Genesis historical account of the worldwide cataclysmic Flood. He has also conducted detailed technical research into all the radioactive dating methods for rocks and fossils, and along with the research of others has demonstrated conclusively that these methods are erroneous and grossly misleading. He has served for more than 25 years with Christian ministries in Australia and the U.S. that stand for the absolute authority of God’s Word, and is currently the Director of Research for Answers in Genesis and the Creation Museum in northern Kentucky, U.S.A.​

​

https://answersingenesis.org/noahs-...ood-recently-found-on-mt-ararat-from-the-ark/

​

"As a scientist I am always cautious and somewhat skeptical of bold and spectacular claims, especially when made in defense of the Bible, yet as a Bible-believing Christian the thought of this wooden structure being the remains of the Ark was tantalizing. Friends in Hong Kong who helped arrange this confidential conference call were equally cautious but excited. We were all looking for the unequivocal evidence that would convince us that this was indeed the remains of the long-sought-after Ark. Such a discovery would be another powerful witness to the truth and authority of God’s Word.1​

​

These Chinese members of the discovery team wanted to determine if I would be sympathetic to their claims, and able to participate with them in their planned press conference, to appear as an “expert witness” to corroborate their potential discovery. I would have seriously considered their request if they could convince me that this discovery was genuine. I was already skeptical though, because the Bible tells us the Ark landed on “the mountains of Ararat” halfway through the Flood on day 150 (Genesis 8:4), rather than on Mt. Ararat itself, which is mostly a recent volcano that has erupted numerous times in recent history​

​

Even so, during our conference call I asked whether any scientific tests had already been conducted. It was quickly indicated that samples of wood from the structures on Mt. Ararat had been tested for radiocarbon (C-14). My curiosity was naturally aroused, as such tests would potentially be a good indication of the structure’s possible antiquity. So without any hesitation on their part, these Chinese members of the discovery team tabled their full compilation of C-14 test results, and sent me a copy.​

​

What I saw immediately convinced me, that if these C-14 test results were obtained on wood samples from the structure they had discovered on Mt. Ararat, then they had definitely NOT discovered the Ark. I graciously sought to explain this to our conference call hosts, giving the reasons for my coming to that conclusion. I also strongly urged them to have further C-14 testing done on their wood samples, and other scientific tests performed on samples of a rope and white pellets we’d seen in the video footage and photos. I even suggested that they delay their press conference until such time as extra scientific tests had been done."​

I would think wood that grew pre-flood would provide results that are not representative of what todays atmosphere are of the ratio between C14 to C12.

 

[Frank Robert]

So what???? Whether the ark landed on the actual what we call the "Mountain of Ararat" or miles down what became the Ararat mountain range makes no difference.

I am not the expert. I am merely quoting the opinion of a sympathetic expert from a Christian Apologetic website who believes it makes a difference.

I would think wood that grew pre-flood would provide results that are not representative of what todays atmosphere are of the ratio between C14 to C12.

You can think whatever pleases you.

 

[EarlyActs]

I have no objections to what you call it. Biblical scholars refer to this type of interpretation as historical-metaphorical.

Their oral tradition contains myths which provided a moral compass for the Hebrews of the time. The greatest contribution the Hebrews made was the worship of one God which set them apart from other Mesopotamian peoples of the time.

Anything that resembles science in the OT is coincidental. The Bible is NOT a science book, it is a religious book.

Jesus was a Jewish preacher who likely used Noah's flood as a teaching story. (A teaching story is a narrative that has been deliberately created as a vehicle for the transmission of wisdom.)

Call it whatever you desire, it does not matter as it has nothing to do with living your faith in Christ.

The Exodus is a teaching story/narrative, for the origin myth of the Israelites leaving slavery in Biblical Egypt to form there own nation through the strength of God who chose them as his people.

It is likely that there was a sort of Exodus. The Song of Miriam, which is the oldest text in the Bible refers to it but never mentions how many people were involved in the Exodus, and it never speaks of the whole nation of Israel. It just refers to a people leaving Egypt.

I don't think you've grasped the signficance of what I'm saying. The "neo" in neo-orthodox truly matters! You're right that it is not a book about science, but also is not a book about sex. Yet when those topics come up it is not conflicted, confusing, misleading, propaganda, subversion. You can refuse to believe in the extent of world flood narrative, but that does not change that they are there.

Don't you understand what Dali painted about the "Last Supper." He realized what neo-orthodoxy was doing: setting up a "faith" that had no facts under it. Let me copy Schaeffer's page called "'Faith' vs Faith" in the next post. It will astonish you what has happened to our culture--and your "living your faith" in a Christ that has nothing to do with historic reality.




“Faith” v. Faith
Francis Schaeffer, 1972, in HE IS THERE AND HE IS NOT SILENT


Francis Schaeffer used this analogy to show how we know that there are reasons for the objective meaning of Christian truth.


Suppose we are climbing in the Alps and are very high on the bare rock and suddenly the fog shuts down. The guide turns to us and says that the ice is forming and there is no hope; before morning we will all freeze to death here on the shoulder of the mountain. Simply to keep warm, the guide keeps us moving in the dense fog further out on the shoulder until none of us have any idea where we are. After an hour or so, someone says to the guide: "Suppose I dropped and hit a ledge ten feet down in the fog. What would happen then?" The guide would say that you might make it till the morning and thus live. So, with absolutely no knowledge or any reason to support his action, one of the group hangs and drops into the fog. This would be one kind of faith, a leap of faith.
Suppose, however, that after we have worked out on the shoulder in the midst of the fog and the growing ice on the rock, we had stopped and we heard a voice which said: "you cannot see me, but I know exactly where you are from your voices. I am on another ridge. I have lived in these mountains, man and boy for over sixty years and I know every foot of them. I assure you that ten feet below you there is a ledge. If you hang and drop, you can make it through the night and I will get you in the morning."
I would not hang and drop at once, but would ask questions to try to ascertain if the man knew what he was talking about and if he was not my enemy. In the Alps, for example, I would ask him his name. If the name he gave me was the family of that part of the mountains, it would count a great deal to me. In the Swiss Alps there are certain family names that indicate mountain families of that area. For example, in the area of the Alps where I live, Avanthey would be such a name. In my desperate situation, even though time would be running out, I would ask him what to me would be the sufficient questions, and when I became convinced by his answers, then I would hang and drop.
This is faith, but obviously it has no relationship to the first instance. As a matter of fact, if one of these is called faith, the other should not be designated by the same word symbol.
The historic Christian faith is not a leap of faith in the post-Kierkegaardian sense because "he is not silent," and I am invited to ask the sufficient questions in regard to details but also in regard to the existence of the universe and its complexity and in regard to the existence of man. I am invited to ask the sufficient questions and then believe him and bow before him metaphysically in knowing that I exist because he made man, and bow before him morally as needing his provision for me in the substitutionary death of Christ.