Bible predictions about Noahs Ark...are true.

[EarlyActs]

Was it? That is the question is it not?

Doug

Do you see the difference between epoch and a Recent Creation Week? Both may allow for more time, but only RCW does not violate the normal sense of Genesis. See my post above for a complete treatment, #103.

I noticed this morning that the NIV now reads that the local astronomical objects are markers of 'sacred time periods.' That is the connection to the Sabbath and the annual festivals. If you break that normal sense of 7 days, you break that observance.

 

[EarlyActs]

Ussher is just one of several reasons.

Are you familiar with Velikovsky's thought on longevity? Author of WORLDS IN COLLISION.

 

[TibiasDad]

Are you ruling out this light source? Rev 21:23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb......are you saying that when God said let there be light it couldn't have been this light?

That is the new heaven and earth, not this one’s beginning. Genesis the the account of creating this earth.

Perhaps it was the creation of Angels and their "light" who were present when Jesus created the world. This isn't my top choice.

I whole lot of perhaps’. The most straightforward understanding is that there was normal sunlight for plant life to grow. That if your perspective is correct, then an Evening and Morning type of language implies a typical sunrise and sunset event on all six day of creation week. To depart from this is to take God away from the physical laws that we see in the universe and in our own world.

If the creation is only 6k old, what happened to the “other sun” of day three, and why did we need a sun (and moon) created if it wasn’t necessary for life to grow to fruitful maturity? These are questions that I can’t find satisfactory answers in a recent creation explanation.


Doug

 

[CrowCross]

Are you familiar with Velikovsky's thought on longevity? Author of WORLDS IN COLLISION.

No.

 

[CrowCross]

That is the new heaven and earth, not this one’s beginning. Genesis the the account of creating this earth.

I simply asked if that could not have been the same light? Light source??

I whole lot of perhaps’. The most straightforward understanding is that there was normal sunlight for plant life to grow.

The straightforward reading is that the sun was created after plant life.

That if your perspective is correct, then an Evening and Morning type of language implies a typical sunrise and sunset event on all six day of creation week.

Which only implies light and rotation.

To depart from this is to take God away from the physical laws that we see in the universe and in our own world.

I never departed....you did when you tried to mix mans scientific thought into what God said He did.

If the creation is only 6k old, what happened to the “other sun” of day three,

There wasn't an other sun....As I said I believe the light was the shekinah light of God....I even gave you an example pulled from Revelations.

Matt 17:2 has another example....And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light.

It is true no one can say.....this is what the light was....But I can say according to the bible the light on day one was not the sun which is currently app. 93.7 million miles away.....Which is why I am going to stay with the shekinah light.

and why did we need a sun (and moon) created if it wasn’t necessary for life to grow to fruitful maturity?

God replaced His shekinah light with the sun and moons....and gave the reason why He created the sun and moon and hung them in the heavens.

These are questions that I can’t find satisfactory answers in a recent creation explanation.

It's not that you can't find satisfactory answers...it's that you won't.

Doug

 

[EarlyActs]

No.

At his best Velikovsky outsmarted NASA by saying that Jupiter would be found to be radiologically young when Viking flew by in the 70s. He was right. He was also a pal of Einstein.

The important point here is his view of what happened in a 'collision' in our solar system, which he finds explains the 'smattering' on the moon, and elsewhere. He thinks it created features like the Genesis cataclysm, but for some reason was at another time. The collision slowed the earth's rotation down.

If you can work out the rate mathematics, you can see that if we are slower now, people in the past may have had very high 'year' counts which were not years as we now know them. They were shorter/quicker, and they ran them up much higher, as Genesis and other sources indicate.

This also affects our count of the age of the earth, if you pencil out the mathematics.

 

[CrowCross]

At his best Velikovsky outsmarted NASA by saying that Jupiter would be found to be radiologically young when Viking flew by in the 70s. He was right. He was also a pal of Einstein.

The important point here is his view of what happened in a 'collision' in our solar system, which he finds explains the 'smattering' on the moon, and elsewhere. He thinks it created features like the Genesis cataclysm, but for some reason was at another time. The collision slowed the earth's rotation down.

If you can work out the rate mathematics, you can see that if we are slower now, people in the past may have had very high 'year' counts which were not years as we now know them. They were shorter/quicker, and they ran them up much higher, as Genesis and other sources indicate.

This also affects our count of the age of the earth, if you pencil out the mathematics.

The year account due to a faster spinning planet would not have increased the lifespans mentioned in the bible enough to make up for the difference.

I believe those long lifespans were due to a more genetically "perfect" population being closer to the creation date and not run down by the mutations and increased radiation we are currently exposed to.

 

[EarlyActs]

The year account due to a faster spinning planet would not have increased the lifespans mentioned in the bible enough to make up for the difference.

I believe those long lifespans were due to a more genetically "perfect" population being closer to the creation date and not run down by the mutations and increased radiation we are currently exposed to.

The first line is simply mathematical. If it traveled around the sun 100x our current rate, and they counted the trip as a year (the Babylonians considered movement through 12 sky-sectors to be a year), you have your answer. All we need is 10x faster before the collision.

Velikovsky found evidence of collisions in many world narratives; the flood too, but we don't see it referenced in Genesis, only side-effects like the bursting of the crust.

Increased radiation is certainly true. What do you think the 'canopy' was made of? Have you read Sylvestru (YEC who passed away about 10 years back).

 

[Frank Robert]

Even "mainstream science" has many differences. Do they teach them all?

I am not an educator, but my understanding is that most states that have a dept or board that sets the requirements for courses and their content. For example, in NY, The New York State Education Department Office of Standards and Instruction provides guidance for the development and implementation of New York State P-12 Science Learning Standards.

 

[TibiasDad]

I simply asked if that could not have been the same light? Light source??

No, this is the account of a physical creation that is operating on the physical laws that are seen and understood today. This creation gains its light and energy from created physical sources not other sources. It is the only way to be consistent in thinking through the physical process.

Moreover the physical capabilities of earth for life are dependent on the reality of our galaxy’s mass, rotation, and other planets and sun being just as they are now. If they didn’t exist until day four, life in a purely natural way would be impossible on day three.

Doug

 

[CrowCross]

The first line is simply mathematical. If it traveled around the sun 100x our current rate, and they counted the trip as a year (the Babylonians considered movement through 12 sky-sectors to be a year), you have your answer. All we need is 10x faster before the collision.

If I go back and look as I believe you first said the long ages were due to the earth spinning faster....now you seemed to have moved to the earth zipping around the sun 10X faster. Perhaps they lived into the 900's recent to creation because the bible speaks the truth and that's what they did.

Velikovsky found evidence of collisions in many world narratives; the flood too, but we don't see it referenced in Genesis, only side-effects like the bursting of the crust.

Something seems to have cause the fountains of the deep to split open and burst forth...no one has ruled out some form of collision.

Increased radiation is certainly true. What do you think the 'canopy' was made of? Have you read Sylvestru (YEC who passed away about 10 years back).

Radiation would certainly mutate a populations DNA and cause shorter lifespans. As for Sylvestru, I haven't heard of him.

 

[CrowCross]

No, this is the account of a physical creation that is operating on the physical laws that are seen and understood today. This creation gains its light and energy from created physical sources not other sources. It is the only way to be consistent in thinking through the physical process.

Moreover the physical capabilities of earth for life are dependent on the reality of our galaxy’s mass, rotation, and other planets and sun being just as they are now. If they didn’t exist until day four, life in a purely natural way would be impossible on day three.

Doug

Then what was the light? We know the bible tells us it wasn't the sun.

 

[EarlyActs]

If I go back and look as I believe you first said the long ages were due to the earth spinning faster....now you seemed to have moved to the earth zipping around the sun 10X faster. Perhaps they lived into the 900's recent to creation because the bible speaks the truth and that's what they did.

Something seems to have cause the fountains of the deep to split open and burst forth...no one has ruled out some form of collision.

Radiation would certainly mutate a populations DNA and cause shorter lifespans. As for Sylvestru, I haven't heard of him.

sorry my celestial mechanic language was off by one object. I meant the speed of movement of the earth around the sun, not the 24 hr cycle! Orbiting not spinning.

Sylvestru did not think the canopy could be water (many do not--except in a permanently miraculous way, which cannot be ruled out). He round that sugilite, a trace mineral, is an anomaly in that it is located everywhere around the world instead of in concentrations. Had it dropped uniformly everywhere in the Cataclysm? It also reflects sunlight, and is translucently rose-colored, which may have affected what kind of radiation existed prior to the Cataclsym. Interesting thoughts. He also had worked out several things about tectonic plates and the Cataclysm, but before animation was good enough to demonstrate it.

re 'permanently miraculous' see Lewis in MERE CHRISTIANITY or MIRACLES. It's heavy wading, but he has a category called natural vs supernatural miracles. for ex., the fact that grapes turn water in to juice is miraculous, but is not suspending any normal process to do so. The miracle at Cana did suspend them, by speed, and is 'supernatural' as was most of what Christ did. (Using water to amplify his voice by standing in a boat out a ways was 'natural.') Perhaps Gen 1 simply meant that low overcast was permanent.

 

[CrowCross]

sorry my celestial mechanic language was off by one object. I meant the speed of movement of the earth around the sun, not the 24 hr cycle! Orbiting not spinning.

Sylvestru did not think the canopy could be water (many do not--except in a permanently miraculous way, which cannot be ruled out). He round that sugilite, a trace mineral, is an anomaly in that it is located everywhere around the world instead of in concentrations. Had it dropped uniformly everywhere in the Cataclysm? It also reflects sunlight, and is translucently rose-colored, which may have affected what kind of radiation existed prior to the Cataclsym. Interesting thoughts. He also had worked out several things about tectonic plates and the Cataclysm, but before animation was good enough to demonstrate it.

re 'permanently miraculous' see Lewis in MERE CHRISTIANITY or MIRACLES. It's heavy wading, but he has a category called natural vs supernatural miracles. for ex., the fact that grapes turn water in to juice is miraculous, but is not suspending any normal process to do so. The miracle at Cana did suspend them, by speed, and is 'supernatural' as was most of what Christ did. (Using water to amplify his voice by standing in a boat out a ways was 'natural.') Perhaps Gen 1 simply meant that low overcast was permanent.

Way back when I did read a book that spoke of rose colored light and it's effects as well as the earth being like a hyperbaric chamber.
Couple that with near perfect genetics which began to wane after the fall....the longevity as mentioned in the bible is very probable.

 

[TibiasDad]

At his best Velikovsky outsmarted NASA by saying that Jupiter would be found to be radiologically young

Velikovsky was a catstrophist who was a fictional writer and a psychologist, not a physicist; his association with Einstein notwithstanding.

Jupiter is considered the first planet to have been created in our galaxy, with all the other planets closely in tow, roughly 4.6 billion years ago.

Doug

 

[EarlyActs]

Velikovsky was a catstrophist who was a fictional writer and a psychologist, not a physicist; his association with Einstein notwithstanding.

Jupiter is considered the first planet to have been created in our galaxy, with all the other planets closely in tow, roughly 4.6 billion years ago.

Doug

why was it 'hot?'

 

[EarlyActs]

Velikovsky was a catstrophist who was a fictional writer and a psychologist, not a physicist; his association with Einstein notwithstanding.

Jupiter is considered the first planet to have been created in our galaxy, with all the other planets closely in tow, roughly 4.6 billion years ago.

Doug

I've read several pieces that Saturn's rings and Pluto's mountains cannot last very long, like <10K years.

 

[TibiasDad]

why was it 'hot?'

It’s not hot!
“With an average temperature of minus 234 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 145 degrees Celsius), Jupiter is frigid even in its warmest weather.” Space.com

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

I've read several pieces that Saturn's rings and Pluto's mountains cannot last very long, like <10K years.

That has little to do with the planet itself, and nothing to do with Jupiter.

Doug

 

[EarlyActs]

It’s not hot!
“With an average temperature of minus 234 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 145 degrees Celsius), Jupiter is frigid even in its warmest weather.” Space.com

Doug

It was in quotes for radiologic meaning.