No Deal with the Devil: Christ's Ransom and the Justice of God

[makesends]

Christ Death destroyed the works of the devil 1 Jn 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Christ destroyed unbelief for the elect. Christ redeemed the elect from all iniquity, the works of the devil who had us captive in unbelief

You are still doing it. You're connecting dots across large spaces.

That we are saved from our sin, and forgiven of our sins, and that we are freed from our captivity to sin, and even to say that we are freed from our captivity to the devil, does not translate to we are REDEEMED from the devil.

 

[Eleanor]

That the devil has much to do with unbelief—how does that make your point? The price paid resulting in redemption is not paid to the devil.

The price paid resulting in redemption is paid to Justice, just as the execution of a murderer is the price paid to justice.

 

[brightfame52]

You are still doing it. You're connecting dots across large spaces.

That we are saved from our sin, and forgiven of our sins, and that we are freed from our captivity to sin, and even to say that we are freed from our captivity to the devil, does not translate to we are REDEEMED from the devil.

The works of the devil have been destroyed by Christ, which one work of his is holding men in unbelief. If you don't believe it or see it, that is fine, I see it and gave you Scripture why. I'm not going to be going back and forth with you either

 

[makesends]

The works of the devil have been destroyed by Christ, which one work of his is holding men in unbelief. If you don't believe it or see it, that is fine, I see it and gave you Scripture why. I'm not going to be going back and forth with you either

I don't disagree with what you say here. I disagree with your use of it, to make the claim that we are redeemed from sin/Satan. That is a mistaken use of the word Redeem. "Freed"? —yes, certainly! "Redeemed"? —no. "Freed from sin/Satan via the Redemption" could even be argued, but we are not redeemed from sin/Satan.

 

[brightfame52]

And not that the devil has no work there, and no captivity, but it is not the devil who accepts the redemption payment.

Who said anything about the devil accepting any payment? It's God's justice that needs to be satisfied. However the works of the devil were destroyed for the elect, that released them from the captivity of the devil. Men don't repent and acknowledge the truth when being captive by the devil 2 Tim 2:25-26

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

God will grant the elect repentance to recover from that captivity because he's been redeemed

 

[Arial]

God will grant the elect repentance to recover from that captivity because he's been redeemed

I have heard the work that Christ does in taking us out of captivity referred to as a rescue, as being delivered, as being snatched from the kingdom of darkness. Never, ever have I heard it reduced to a "recovery".

 

[brightfame52]

Redeemed"? —no. "Freed from sin/Satan via the Redemption" could even be argued, but we are not redeemed from sin/Satan

I think you are trying to make a distinction that is not there. To be redeemed implies a liberation from the power and possession of another. The Greek word λυτρόω in Titus 2 14 means:

3084 lytróō (cognate with 3083/lytron, "a ransom-price") – properly, to release (set free) by paying the full ransom; "to release, on receipt of ransom" (Vine); (figuratively) to restore "something back, into the possession of its rightful owner – i.e. rescuing from the power and possession of an alien possessor" (Wm. Barclay).

By nature the elect are the goods or possession of the devil under the power of sin and darkness and unbelief

 

[makesends]

Who said anything about the devil accepting any payment? It's God's justice that needs to be satisfied. However the works of the devil were destroyed for the elect, that released them from the captivity of the devil. Men don't repent and acknowledge the truth when being captive by the devil 2 Tim 2:25-26

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

God will grant the elect repentance to recover from that captivity because he's been redeemed

What I said agrees with what you say here. But that is not redemption. Arguably the RESULT of redemption, but not redemption.

 

[makesends]

I think you are trying to make a distinction that is not there. To be redeemed implies a liberation from the power and possession of another. The Greek word λυτρόω in Titus 2 14 means:

3084 lytróō (cognate with 3083/lytron, "a ransom-price") – properly, to release (set free) by paying the full ransom; "to release, on receipt of ransom" (Vine); (figuratively) to restore "something back, into the possession of its rightful owner – i.e. rescuing from the power and possession of an alien possessor" (Wm. Barclay).

By nature the elect are the goods or possession of the devil under the power of sin and darkness and unbelief

I think you are trying to do away with the distinction that is, by definition of "redeemed", there. Nobody is saying that the redeemed are not freed. But the freeing is a result of redemption and not the redemption itself.

 

[brightfame52]

What I said agrees with what you say here. But that is not redemption. Arguably the RESULT of redemption, but not redemption.

Redemption and the results of it are one, cause and effect