NASA's Perseverance Mars rover finds possible signs of ancient Red Planet life

[Rella]

Not sure where to post this

NASA's Perseverance rover has discovered a rock on Mars that may have once hosted microbial life. The rock, nicknamed Cheyava Falls, has chemical compositions and structures that could have been formed by ancient life, although non-biological processes cannot yet be ruled out. . | Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/MSSS


NASA's Perseverance rover may have found signs of ancient life in a rock on Mars; the mission team's scientists are ecstatic, but remain cautious as further analysis is needed to confirm the discovery.

The rover has come across an intriguing, arrowhead-shaped rock that hosts chemical signatures and structures that could have been formed by microbial life billions of years ago, when Mars was significantly wetter than it is today. Inside the rock, which scientists have nicknamed "Cheyava Falls," Perseverance's instruments detected organic compounds, which are precursors to the chemistry of life as we know it. Wisping through the length of the rock are veins of calcium sulfate, which are mineral deposits that suggest water — also essential for life — once ran through the rock.

The rover also found dozens of millimeter-sized splotches, each surrounded by a black ring and mimicking the appearance of leopard spots. These rings contain iron and phosphate, which are also seen on Earth as a result of microbe-led chemical reactions.

"These spots are a big surprise," David Flannery, an astrobiologist and member of the Perseverance science team from the Queensland University of Technology in Australia, said in a statement. "On Earth, these types of features in rocks are often associated with the fossilized record of microbes living in the subsurface."

Related: 'An oasis in the desert': NASA's Curiosity rover finds pure sulfur in Martian rocks

"We've never seen these three things together on Mars before," Morgan Cable, a scientist on the Perseverance team, said in a video NASA posted to YouTube today (July 25).

Cheyava Falls sits at the edge of an ancient, 400-meter-wide (437-yard-wide) river valley named Neretva Vallis. Scientists suspect this ancient channel was carved out long ago due to water gushing into Jezero Crater; Neretva Vallis runs along the inner wall of this region. In one possible scenario, mud that already possessed organic compounds got dumped into the valley and later cemented into the Cheyava Falls rock, which Perseverance sampled on July 21. A second episode of water oozing into the formed rock would have created the object's calcium sulfate veins and black-ringed spots the team sees today.

To be clear, the rock's visible features aren’t irrefutable evidence of ancient microbial life on Mars — not yet, at least. It is possible, for instance, that the observed calcium sulfate entered the rock at uninhabitably high temperatures, perhaps during a nearby volcanic event. However, whether such non-biological chemical reactions could have resulted in the observed black-ringed spots is an open question, the scientists say.

"This trip through the Neretva Vallis riverbed paid off as we found something we've never seen before, which will give our scientists so much to study," Nicola Fox, the associate administrator of NASA's Science Mission Directorate, said in the statement.

"We have zapped that rock with lasers and X-rays and imaged it literally day and night from just about every angle imaginable," Ken Farley, Perseverance project scientist of Caltech in California, said in the statement. "Scientifically, Perseverance has nothing more to give."

Related Stories:

— Little Mars 'snowman' spotted by NASA's Perseverance rover (photo)

— Perseverance rover's Mars rock sample may contain best evidence of possible ancient life

— Perseverance Mars rover digs into intriguing 'Bright Angel' rock formation (photo)

To fully grasp what really unfolded in the ancient river valley billions of years ago, scientists are keen to get the Cheyava Falls sample to Earth, where it can be scrutinized with powerful instruments that Perseverance’s limited suite doesn't have.

The complex Mars Sample Return effort, however, has run into many snags in recent months after its costs spiked to $11 billion. In its current form, the program requires multiple launches to Mars to place a vehicle on the Red Planet, after which either Perseverance will travel to the vehicle and drop off its collected samples, or pop those samples over to a retrieval helicopter that can complete the handoff. Then, an ascender would launch the samples into orbit, where a spacecraft would collect them and return them to Earth.

NASA assessed various simpler alternatives from industry and academic groups and awarded $1.5 million contracts to seven companies looking into the endeavor; three of the agency's own research centers are carrying out studies as well.

 

[EarlyActs]

My view is that there could likely have been a mass energy release before Gen 1 because technically 'heavens and earth' are limited to our system, v8, the firmament, not the stars. Not surprisingly this is found in 2 Peter 3 as well. 'Creation' is also confined to the local, but the mass energy release has no life to it. There might be water, as Mars also shows. And then there is likely also collisions as our local system shows, cp. Velikovsky. There are indicators that our local objects are recent. Velikovsky found one; another is Dr. Giem's studies of Pluto.

 

[makesends]

My view is that there could likely have been a mass energy release before Gen 1 because technically 'heavens and earth' are limited to our system, v8, the firmament, not the stars. Not surprisingly this is found in 2 Peter 3 as well. 'Creation' is also confined to the local, but the mass energy release has no life to it. There might be water, as Mars also shows. And then there is likely also collisions as our local system shows, cp. Velikovsky. There are indicators that our local objects are recent. Velikovsky found one; another is Dr. Giem's studies of Pluto.

What does "mass energy release" mean, here? —ex nihilo, organizing vs entropy, change of state of existing material, stuff thrown around, what?

 

[EarlyActs]

What does "mass energy release" mean, here? —ex nihilo, organizing vs entropy, change of state of existing material, stuff thrown around, what?

That God spoke mass into existence and dispersed it, released it, and that is why it has the randomness to it. Ps 104, Job, Isaiah, etc, call this spreading out. Or stretching out. And red-shifting verifies this.

This was before Day 1 of Creation Week, though not long. But out of this release we have earth in which the solid material is encased in water. But the verbs are clear: it is already in that condition before Day 1, which does not begin until God speaks, like the other 5.

I say 'not long' because Day 1 calls for a minimum of light to mark and evening and morning--a 24 hours. Centauri is the next closest star, 4 years away, but is that enough light for that purpose.

There are many interesting reads in the journal.

There is a 2nd reason in Gen 1 to believe the distant stars were there prior to Day 1. The group that is local, which includes a few stars that move (from earth's POV) are called one thing over and over. The distant stars are mentioned just once, merely as "there."

Can you see the point about earth's POV? The things we see will either have movement or not; that is the 'line' which the ancient viewer used to separate near from far objects.

 

[makesends]

That God spoke mass into existence and dispersed it, released it, and that is why it has the randomness to it. Ps 104, Job, Isaiah, etc, call this spreading out. Or stretching out. And red-shifting verifies this.

This was before Day 1 of Creation Week, though not long. But out of this release we have earth in which the solid material is encased in water. But the verbs are clear: it is already in that condition before Day 1, which does not begin until God speaks, like the other 5.

I say 'not long' because Day 1 calls for a minimum of light to mark and evening and morning--a 24 hours. Centauri is the next closest star, 4 years away, but is that enough light for that purpose.

There are many interesting reads in the journal.

It seems you realize this is conjecture. I hope so. But there're things in it I agree with.

I'm curious if you believe there is actual 'randomness', or if you think it is just our way of saying, "we don't know."

 

[Mr GLee]

My view is that there could likely have been a mass energy release before Gen 1 because technically 'heavens and earth' are limited to our system, v8, the firmament, not the stars. Not surprisingly this is found in 2 Peter 3 as well. 'Creation' is also confined to the local, but the mass energy release has no life to it. There might be water, as Mars also shows. And then there is likely also collisions as our local system shows, cp. Velikovsky. There are indicators that our local objects are recent. Velikovsky found one; another is Dr. Giem's studies of Pluto.

I would think when his glory departed day three he corrupted the whole creation it would include other planets Water without trees do not does not equal life. The living water the breath of life the living word does .

Exodus 15:23 And when they came to Marah, they could not drink of the waters of Marah, for they were bitter: therefore the name of it was called Marah. And the people murmured against Moses, saying, What shall we drink And he cried unto the Lord; and the Lord shewed him a tree, which when he had cast into the waters, the waters were made sweet: there he made for them a statute and an ordinance, and there he proved them,

One Spirit essence, the breath of all spirit life .Put on the armor of Christ it defends us. Not rocket science LOL

Ephesians 6:16-18King James Version16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

 

[EarlyActs]

It seems you realize this is conjecture. I hope so. But there're things in it I agree with.

I'm curious if you believe there is actual 'randomness', or if you think it is just our way of saying, "we don't know."

It seems you realize this is conjecture. I hope so. But there're things in it I agree with.

I'm curious if you believe there is actual 'randomness', or if you think it is just our way of saying, "we don't know."

One of the big mistakes of creationists in astronomy is neglect of the Hebrew terms. I recently listened to 8 hours on origins, date of earth and astronomy and not one Hebrew term was explained. As if the whole thing was in English!

There are things that put distinction between our local system and the distant objects in both Gen 1 and 2 Peter 3, and other passages.

Speaking of conjecture, the same creationists invent some kind of light to appear in 1:3 like the Shekinah or ‘ God is light’ etc.

I believe there is actual randomness. What is the point of exactly 153 fish caught in Jn 22? I don’t mean that proof doesn’t matter, I mean it could have been 148. The mass of distant stars’ only significance is as a picture of how many believers would be in Christ as Abraham’s seed, Gen 15. As seen without telescopes in the ancient near east sky.

 

[EarlyActs]

I would think when his glory departed day three he corrupted the whole creation it would include other planets Water without trees do not does not equal life. The living water the breath of life the living word does .

Exodus 15:23 And when they came to Marah, they could not drink of the waters of Marah, for they were bitter: therefore the name of it was called Marah. And the people murmured against Moses, saying, What shall we drink And he cried unto the Lord; and the Lord shewed him a tree, which when he had cast into the waters, the waters were made sweet: there he made for them a statute and an ordinance, and there he proved them,

One Spirit essence, the breath of all spirit life .Put on the armor of Christ it defends us. Not rocket science LOL

Ephesians 6:16-18King James Version16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

I have no idea what departure you mean in your first paragraph.

 

[makesends]

One of the big mistakes of creationists in astronomy is neglect of the Hebrew terms. I recently listened to 8 hours on origins, date of earth and astronomy and not one Hebrew term was explained. As if the whole thing was in English!

There are things that put distinction between our local system and the distant objects in both Gen 1 and 2 Peter 3, and other passages.

Speaking of conjecture, the same creationists invent some kind of light to appear in 1:3 like the Shekinah or ‘ God is light’ etc.

There are plenty of creationists who call it Shekinah etc that easily admit is conjecture. But now you sound like you firmly believe YOUR notions are correct, since you know the Hebrew terms.

I believe there is actual randomness. What is the point of exactly 153 fish caught in Jn 22? I don’t mean that proof doesn’t matter, I mean it could have been 148. The mass of distant stars’ only significance is as a picture of how many believers would be in Christ as Abraham’s seed, Gen 15. As seen without telescopes in the ancient near east sky.

153 isn't a random number. What was the point in saying there were exactly 153 fish caught, if it were random? Fact is, it couldn't have been 148. Whatever does happen, happens because it can happen. If it can't happen, it won't happen. If it can, it will.

You might correct me, and say that the fact it can happen means that it "might" happen. But no, that is the human lack of knowing, that we describe with "might" and "random" and "chance". The fact we don't know which it will be doesn't mean it is random, and the fact that it didn't happen means it could not have.

The empirical evidence of all history show that only what happens happens. Nothing else ever happens, so why do we say it could have?

But since you asked what the point was for there to be 153 fish caught, one reason for it is this exact conversation we are having. Do you think this conversation came out of a void? The tiniest detail of fact is caused.

 

[EarlyActs]

There are plenty of creationists who call it Shekinah etc that easily admit is conjecture. But now you sound like you firmly believe YOUR notions are correct, since you know the Hebrew terms.

153 isn't a random number. What was the point in saying there were exactly 153 fish caught, if it were random? Fact is, it couldn't have been 148. Whatever does happen, happens because it can happen. If it can't happen, it won't happen. If it can, it will.

You might correct me, and say that the fact it can happen means that it "might" happen. But no, that is the human lack of knowing, that we describe with "might" and "random" and "chance". The fact we don't know which it will be doesn't mean it is random, and the fact that it didn't happen means it could not have.

The empirical evidence of all history show that only what happens happens. Nothing else ever happens, so why do we say it could have?

But since you asked what the point was for there to be 153 fish caught, one reason for it is this exact conversation we are having. Do you think this conversation came out of a void? The tiniest detail of fact is caused.

I have no idea what you mean.

To track back, the point was that the distant worlds are not assigned any other value than representing how many children Abraham would have through Christ, Gen 15. Our local system , on the other hand, is exquisite engineering for human life, and also marks things about when Christ would come, as signs.

As proof that the fisherman were there at that miracle , a specific number matters. That specific number does not.

Why do Christian astronomers not know the Hebrew terms in the simplest way—transliteration?

For further support of things before Day 1, carefully follow how Peter answers the ‘stoicheians’ in 2P3. There is no issue the distant universe is somewhat older than the forming of earth. But The pottery-like forming of earth upset that cult bc it means disruption—as much as the cataclysm.

If Day 1s light is not ordinary starlight arriving, then all the terms in 1:2 are imaginary or extraordinary. Which would be odd bc the rest of the passage is quite ordinary. Nothing strange shows in Genesis until the tree of knowledge.

Explosive events like the cataclysm have a very steep decline of energy; that is one reason why there is not that much time before Day 1. But there is some. The verb tenses and the 6 days form show this. The universe was spread quickly but is still spreading slowly—red-shifting shows this. That event was not Day 1 but before it. The Gen1 chapter confines itself to our system.

There is so much material , I formed a journal But can’t identify it—forum rules.

 

[Mr GLee]

I have no idea what departure you mean in your first paragraph.

God as the literal light of the whole planet departed on day three when he saw pride in Lucifer .

He will gloriously return in the new heaven and earth. on the last day under the Sun .Then there will be no need for Sun and moon . No night no darkness