Misunderstanding Paul?

[David1701]

David, we’ve been down this rabbit trail before. The question isn’t about the deciding factor, for that can only be God.
It is God who decided that he will save whoever believes. He is not obligated by our choice, but by his own promise. “He who promised is faithful” (Heb 10:23) He doesn’t act on my demand, but on his own.

God sets the protocol and obligates himself by that decision alone. It is not my decision, but his that makes the difference.
He decided that he will save all who believe. That is his promise! It is not my demand on him, it is his demand on himself!


Doug

You are either not understanding the question, or you are being disingenuous.

Who makes the difference between two people who hear the same gospel message, one who believes and the other who disbelieves?

A) God

B) The sinner

If you answer A), then congratulations, you are what men call a "Calvinist". If you answer B), then you do not believe that God is the deciding factor in salvation, giving the lie to your post.

 

[TibiasDad]

You are either not understanding the question, or you are being disingenuous.

Who makes the difference between two people who hear the same gospel message, one who believes and the other who disbelieves?

A) God

B) The sinner

If you answer A), then congratulations, you are what men call a "Calvinist". If you answer B), then you do not believe that God is the deciding factor in salvation, giving the lie to your post.

False Dichotomy, David! It is God, but I am not a Calvinist! Disagreement is not equal to disingenuous.

Doug

 

[David1701]

False Dichotomy, David! It is God, but I am not a Calvinist! Disagreement is not equal to disingenuous.

Doug

Then you don't understand, which is okay.

 

[TibiasDad]

Then you don't understand, which is okay.

You don’t either, which is also okay! We will understand perfectly in heaven!

Doug

 

[Marilyn C]

The reality is no matter what side a person takes on the Predestination/Free will argument. There is always a giving meaning to scriptures that appear to have a clear meaning to us in our English understanding. Both sides do this, people who believe in Predestination take the clear meaning of scriptures like 1 Timothy 2-4-6, 1 Timothy 4:10, 1 John 2:2 regarding God desiring the salvation of all men, or scripture like Jesus saying He desired to save people but they were not willing (Mathew 23:37), and change them to have "different" meanings. People who believe in free will have to equally wrestle with Paul’s writings, where he speaks of being predestined.

Due to taking the side of Free will. I will give another argument as to why I believe one should believe in the Free Agency of man, as opposed to God preselecting an elect group for salvation. Even the Bible states Paul’s writings can be misunderstood:

2Pe 3:14-16 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.


Peter tells us that “untaught” people twist Paul’s the scriptures, to their own destruction. But now I look to who should we consider “untaught”, anyone who did not have a link back to the Early Church.

Hi FAAH,

I see 2 Peter 3: 14 - 16 a different way than what has been presented.

Peter refers to Paul as having been given wisdom which he writes in his epistles that the untaught twist to their own destruction. Now we know that Paul was given the whole counsel of God and taught his disciples this.

`For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. `(Acts 20: 27)

His disciples, Aquilla and Pricilla, helped the great teacher Apollos to understand the things of the Lord more accurately as he only knew of the baptism of John.

`So he (Apollos) began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquilla and Pricilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. `(Acts 18: 26)

However, Peter did not have the revelation of the Body of Christ, as the Lord gave it to Paul. (Eph. 3: 3 - 6)

Peter was looking for the Lord to bring in His rulership to Israel. (Acts 1: 6 `Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom/rule to Israel? `)

Peter had to be told to go to the Gentiles because he still considered them to be unclean. (Acts 10: 28) (no Body of Christ understanding)

Peter tried to get the Gentile believers to act like Jews. (Gal. 2: 11 - 14) (no Body of Christ understanding)

Peter finds what Paul preaches hard to understand. (2 Peter 3: 16) (no understanding of the Body of Christ.)

 

[David1701]

You don’t either, which is also okay! We will understand perfectly in heaven!

Doug

About the matter we've been discussing, I certainly do understand. You contradicted yourself; but, since you don't appear to realise it, and, contrary to your view, you still believe that God is the deciding factor in salvation, I've concluded that your heart is better than your head (but your head is still wrong!).

 

[TibiasDad]

About the matter we've been discussing, I certainly do understand. You contradicted yourself; but, since you don't appear to realise it, and, contrary to your view, you still believe that God is the deciding factor in salvation, I've concluded that your heart is better than your head (but your head is still wrong!).

Well then, we are in agreement that our hearts are properly placed, but we find each other’s heads to be wrong! (We both have found agreement in your photography, however!)

I only contradict your viewpoint of my argument. I simply see God as the sole effectual power, while maintaining that man has a necessary and non-meritorious duty to fulfill before chooses to act.

Calvinists do the same thing when asserting that free will and predestination are compatible.

If we can understand the trueness of our hearts, then we can find grace to reconcile our differences in our thinking!

Jesus is Lord, and I commend you for expressing this fact in your daily life!

Doug