Matthew 24-25 Olivet Discourse

[EarlyActs]

Many saved believers found in unrepentant iniquity and former believers will be left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event because that is when Christ shall judge His church first.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
So we are to exhort the believers living in sin ( even heresy ) and former believers to go to Jesus Christ for help and discernment in seeing the lies and the iniquities to depart from them so they too may "obtain" that "eternal glory" that comes with our salvation which is to be that vessel unto honor in His House. Otherwise, they are at risk of being left behind even though they are still His and thus saved.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

As the church is to excommunicate when holding fellowship and the feast thereby to eat in sincerity & in truth, so will God do for the Marriage Supper above.

1 Corinthians 5th Chapter

I need the Lord's help to not have malice for those that have wronged me and refuses to repent because they may repent in time before the Marriage Supper and so He has to help me to forgive them for they know not what they do as they are my brothers and sisters. Even if they do get left behind... I cannot have any malice on that foundation nor hatred as they are works of the flesh and can defile the Temple of God.

I shall leave them to God for vengeance and to give them stripes so they will never do that again as they shall live as my brothers & sisters on earth in serving the King of kings after the great tribulation as I hope in Him that I shall live in the City of God forever.

1 Thessalonians 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

1 Peter 2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. 20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

I Peter 4:17 cannot be used in the confined sense that starts this post

 

[Rev. Man Ron]

Many saved believers found in unrepentant iniquity and former believers will be left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event because that is when Christ shall judge His church first.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

This simply refers to the First Resurrection comes first, then the 2nd Resurrection happens 1000 years later.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord,

This is simply Jesus telling the Disciples to preach unto their "Churches" (body of Christ) to be ready at all times, in other words do not tarry, always stay in Christ.

You really don't answer, you pick out a smidge to reply unto and then go to posting scriptures, and in most cases they do not even match anything I stated.

 

[ChristB4us]

I Peter 4:17 cannot be used in the confined sense that starts this post

1 Peter 4:17 is why Jesus is warning believers to be ready or else but to be judged as not abiding in Him as found in iniquity because as that iniquity denies Him, is why He is denying them thus disqualifying them to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

You cannot have Jesus warning His disciples in Matthew 24th chapter unless there was a danger to being led astray and thus judged as in excommunicated from the Marriage Supper held in Heaven and thus left behind.

 

[ChristB4us]

This simply refers to the First Resurrection comes first, then the 2nd Resurrection happens 1000 years later.

The first resurrection in Revelation 20:1-6 is explained in verse 5 for why they were applying first resurrection to mean as that was to happen first before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on at the Great white Throne Judgment.

This is simply Jesus telling the Disciples to preach unto their "Churches" (body of Christ) to be ready at all times, in other words do not tarry, always stay in Christ.

You really don't answer, you pick out a smidge to reply unto and then go to posting scriptures, and in most cases they do not even match anything I stated.

Revelation 19:1-10 testify to the Marriage Supper in heaven and how it was closed until it was opened again at the end of the great tribulation for Him to return as the King of kings to destroy the world's armies marching against Jerusalem with the pre great tribulation raptured saints in Revelation 19:11-21 as confirmed with Zechariah 14:1-5.

Then the world's armies is vanquished and in Revelation 20:1-6, Satan is in the pit for a thousand years BEFORE that so called first resurrection takes place of those saints left behind and new believers that had died during the great tribulation along with those that were not resurrected at the pre great tribulation rapture event.

That means Jesus is not meeting those saints in the air when He was already on earth having been victorious in His return.

That is where you apply Christ's the firstfruits and those that be Christ at His coming in the order of the resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

There cannot be an order to the resurrection of believers if Paul was just referring to Christ Whom was already resurrected and had ascended as being that firstfruit when that firstfruits is PLURAL.

@EarlyActs

 

[Rev. Man Ron]

The first resurrection in Revelation 20:1-6 is explained in verse 5 for why they were applying first resurrection to mean as that was to happen first before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on at the Great white Throne Judgment.

No, their way of writing was different. That was a parenthetical statement, like this, there were no chapters and verses. Below the TWO BOLDED PARTS GO TOGETHER. While the part in between is speaking about the resurrection of the wicked dead who are only raised after Jesus' 1000 year reign. I will add it in to vs. 4 {{-}}


4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. {{ THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION. }}

(5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished). This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 19:1-10 testify to the Marriage Supper in heaven and how it was closed until it was opened again at the end of the great tribulation for Him to return as the King of kings to destroy the world's armies marching against Jerusalem with the pre great tribulation raptured saints in Revelation 19:11-21 as confirmed with Zechariah 14:1-5.

You are missing it via the TIMING TELLS like most do, the book of Revelation is not in Chronological Order. Revelation 19 has to happen before Rev. 4, they already have on heir White Robes. In the Jewish Wedding the Bride and Groom remain in the fathers house for 7 days (think 7 years) then the Marriage Feast comes. In Rev. 19 the Marriage Feast is Armageddon. Rev. 14 and 19 both cover 7 full years, Rev. 14 is the Harvest chapters, so in order to show the Three Harvests, Israel (144,000 really 5 Million or so Jews who repent) are the Wheat, the Wicked Grapes in verses 17-20 are there alongside Israel being harvested, but in a FLASHBACK to the Pre Trib Rapture vs. 14 shows us Jesus Harvesting souls from upon a cloud !! We are Pre Trib Raptured, but we are also seen in Rev. 7:9-17, we came out of great tribulation, millions of our brothers were killed for their faiths building up the Church. However John never called it the Greatest Ever Troubles. Now read John 16:33 Jesus told us on this earth we would always have TROUBLES/Tribulations.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

There cannot be an order to the resurrection of believers if Paul was just referring to Christ Whom was already resurrected and had ascended as being that firstfruit when that firstfruits is PLURAL.

Jesus was the First-fruits of the Grave we the Church are the First-fruits of the Barley Harvest, which does not need crushing in order to be Harvested. Israel are The Wheat which must e crushed before it can be harvested. See how God uses these things to show us shadows of things to come?

The Greeks had a machine that crushed wheat, it was called a TRIBULUM, that is where the English word Tribulation comes from. Each Harvest has its First-fruits, you are only looking at the word first-fruits and not realizing it is referencing each Harvest Fruit. The Church has First-Fruits (Barley which needs not to be crushed, we are already read to be sifted) Israel are the Wheat and must be crushed (70th week was designed by God to get Israel to repent or atone).

 

[Marilyn C]

Basically these verses are ALL ABOUT the Disciples lives, we only get into the 70th week in vs. 15. No time is cut short, that is a misconception of what Jesus is saying, when he returns he will kill the Anti-Christ and cut short his rule to 42 months as the Beast, if he did not do this the A.C. would go on ruling and kill off all of mankind, so the CUTTING SHORT is already a part of the plan, the A.C. only gets a 42 month rule. The 42 months does not get cut any shorter. The 70th week lasts for the full 7 years.

Hi Rev. Man Ron,

I like what you write. Just thought I`d drop this detail for you to think about. You will see that the trib, is shorter than the 7 years.

View attachment 364

 

[Rev. Man Ron]

Hi Rev. Man Ron,

I like what you write. Just thought I`d drop this detail for you to think about. You will see that the trib, is shorter than the 7 years.

View attachment 364

I wouldn't take Jesus' quote in Matt. 24 as meaning the 7 years/3.5 year periods are shorter, Jesus is saying the troubles that the Anti-Christ would bring unto mankind is limited unto 42 months, then I will show up and his rule will be cut short [of what it would have been if I did not intervene]. This is why Jesus says if he did not show up no life on earth would have existed. But that is all taken into account by God before the 42 month prophesies were given. God doesn't have to shorten His plans, His plans will shorten the Beasts rule to 42 months.

 

[EarlyActs]

I wouldn't take Jesus' quote in Matt. 24 as meaning the 7 years/3.5 year periods are shorter, Jesus is saying the troubles that the Anti-Christ would bring unto mankind is limited unto 42 months, then I will show up and his rule will be cut short [of what it would have been if I did not intervene]. This is why Jesus says if he did not show up no life on earth would have existed. But that is all taken into account by God before the 42 month prophesies were given. God doesn't have to shorten His plans, His plans will shorten the Beasts rule to 42 months.

Unless it was all in reference to the 1st cent. situation, which it was. Luke 23:28+ The 'fall on us' OT reference was about that generation.

 

[EarlyActs]

I have reasons for starting this which I may mention at a later time. Someone said to start this and so, here it is. This is for discussion. You should notice that I give only little pieces of input to each verse, because this should be an open discussion. I also highlighted some portions.

This is actually kind of important, given that Jesus presents some parables that seem to show that for those who do not hear, listen, and act... it isn't pretty. Once again, this is for considerate discussion.

Matthew 24
"Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

[There is too little information available for me to say, but what about the western wall that is still standing? This would only be a distraction. It is something that came up in some of my research.]

"3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for [a]all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, [b]pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

[Please tell me that you notice that Jesus is presenting His second coming as affecting the whole world, not just Jerusalem.]

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."

[Again, Jesus is relating His second coming to the whole world, not just Jerusalem. Jerusalem, which can very well be symbolic for Israel, and all Jews, is the center of the story, but all the nations of the world are involved.]

The item about 'what about the Western wall?' does not matter. The expression 'no stone' is not to be read with Western precision. It means it was down, over with, done, toast. This is perhaps literalism at its most annoying.

I have tested the delay model many times, and urge you to see the sanity of it, because the talk by Jesus will fall apart without it:

*the sayings out to v29 are about 1st cent. Israel. You may not like the imprecision, but all of these things were going on. The point is that it was the 'times of trouble' of Daniel 9; it was no panacea.

*the expectation was that 'right after' those things, the end of the world and final judgement would occur.

*but the final did not occur, which means there has been a delay. This delay is found 3 ways: his saying 'only the Father knows'
2, the 4 options of the return in Mk 13
3, the chapter of 2 Peter 3 on this topic

If this model is not followed, you either miss the drama of the NT (the tragedy of Israel in that generation which did not need to happen) or you go into the very bizarre preterist belief that the destruction was the 2nd coming and nothing else happens. These are a significant part of my pair of NT theology/messianism, THE ENTHRONED KING and THE COVENANT REVOLT.

 

[EarlyActs]

I wouldn't take Jesus' quote in Matt. 24 as meaning the 7 years/3.5 year periods are shorter, Jesus is saying the troubles that the Anti-Christ would bring unto mankind is limited unto 42 months, then I will show up and his rule will be cut short [of what it would have been if I did not intervene]. This is why Jesus says if he did not show up no life on earth would have existed. But that is all taken into account by God before the 42 month prophesies were given. God doesn't have to shorten His plans, His plans will shorten the Beasts rule to 42 months.

M24A (to v29) is about the 1st cent. Judean situation (all the terms, expressions, details are from that, cp. Mt 10). The expectation was that the end of the world would come right after that. We find that expectation in all of Paul's letters, even in what Luke transcribed from and for Paul.

But we all know that the delay was put into effect, the one mentioned 3 ways.

This leaves Dan 9 intact and completed in the 490 years and the decisive generation.

 

[EarlyActs]

I have reasons for starting this which I may mention at a later time. Someone said to start this and so, here it is. This is for discussion. You should notice that I give only little pieces of input to each verse, because this should be an open discussion. I also highlighted some portions.

This is actually kind of important, given that Jesus presents some parables that seem to show that for those who do not hear, listen, and act... it isn't pretty. Once again, this is for considerate discussion.

Matthew 24
"Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

[There is too little information available for me to say, but what about the western wall that is still standing? This would only be a distraction. It is something that came up in some of my research.]

"3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for [a]all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, [b]pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

[Please tell me that you notice that Jesus is presenting His second coming as affecting the whole world, not just Jerusalem.]

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."

[Again, Jesus is relating His second coming to the whole world, not just Jerusalem. Jerusalem, which can very well be symbolic for Israel, and all Jews, is the center of the story, but all the nations of the world are involved.]

Remember that at that time, the whole world was the nations listed in Acts 2. Even so, many of the instructions here are Judean-based, just like Mt 10 (some of 24 is repeat).

We should also note that the stones thrown down can't be a later structure because he is referring to the one they see.

NT eschatology actually hinges around Mt24:29 and a delay. I call the chapter out to v29 Mt24A and after it is B. I believe you will find him limiting himself to the 1st century and mostly Judean world. 'Immediately after' this is supposed to be the final judgement of the world (cp Rom 2: the Jew first then the Gentile). Everything after this could be both as there are similarities and they are all practical, but the curious thing is the remark that only Father knows when the final day is. If Jesus doesn't know that, you kind of wonder... OR, there is a delay.

Mk 13 allows for 4 options (very soon to very late) before the final day, and 2 Peter 3 is specifically answering the question of a delay. If you move 24A to our future, there is a mess. If you move 24B forward to 70 AD there is a train wreck.

I think that the question of "the end" of Dan 9 needed to be settled. So I think 2 P 3 is a group saying, 'you Christians said Dan 9's "end" was 3.5 years after Messiah's death. So where is the promised coming?" I think that the disciples were asking about the same end named in the OP of this thread. Both Josephus and Caiaphas knew it was coming; and the latter even thought he could circumvent it by the death of Jesus (Jn 12). The answer about the last half of the 70th week is that the whole generation is decisive for Israel, like the generation in the desert after that exodus, "as at Marah."