John 6:44,60-65

[Arial]

Verse 44. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Verses 60-65/ When many of his disciples heard it, they said, "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?" But Jesus , knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, "Do you take offense at this? Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."

Since there is controversy over the meaning of particularly verse 44, as to what being drawn to Jesus means, I will present my interpretation and would like to hear other interpretations that refute the one I give. I say if we get 44 right the entire chapter will be clear, and verses 60-65 will take on a true meaning and the revealing of a wonderful truth.

To grasp the meaning of draw here, if we define the meaning of "No one can," and "And I will raise him up on the last day." according to their plain meaning, we will have our answer to what draw means. No one can obviously means no one has the ability. We learned that at our mother's knee, every time she corrected our "can I" question with "may I." What is it they cannot do? Come to Jesus. Preceding the "Father who sent me draws him" is the word "unless." So something must happen before anyone can come to Jesus and that is that the Father draws Him.

So, then we have the Father drawing people to Christ and this is often said that He does this for all people, those who believe Him and those who reject Him. But is that true? Not if you take the plain meaning of "And I will raise Him up on the last day." Those who reject Him are not raised up on the last day so it cannot be applied to them. So only those He elects or chooses are drawn to them as we see in Acts 13:47-48 For so the Lord has commanded us saying, "I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth." And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."

And we have the testimony of Jesus in John 6:25-30 when the Jews refused to believe Him. "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one."

If we get that right then verses 60-65 shed even more light on who does this drawing and how it comes about. "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all." If we are reading through John chronologically, we have already learned in John 3 that unless a man is born again by the Spirit He cannot even see (understand) the things said about the kingdom of heaven, let alone inherit the kingdom. So it is the Spirit who gives life to the dead in tresspasses (Eph 2) so that they can understand spiritual things. "The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life."

Jesus goes on to say, "But there are some of you who do not believe." and that he knew who they were from the beginning. He then repeated the early statement of being drawn to Jesus adding even a stronger wording of the same thing. "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father." Drawn and granted mean the same thing in these passages. This is a resounding declaration of the absolute sovereignty of God in every aspect of salvation, including who He chooses to draw to the Son.

 

[Mr GLee]

Verse 44. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Verses 60-65/ When many of his disciples heard it, they said, "This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?" But Jesus , knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, "Do you take offense at this? Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."

Since there is controversy over the meaning of particularly verse 44, as to what being drawn to Jesus means, I will present my interpretation and would like to hear other interpretations that refute the one I give. I say if we get 44 right the entire chapter will be clear, and verses 60-65 will take on a true meaning and the revealing of a wonderful truth.

To grasp the meaning of draw here, if we define the meaning of "No one can," and "And I will raise him up on the last day." according to their plain meaning, we will have our answer to what draw means. No one can obviously means no one has the ability. We learned that at our mother's knee, every time she corrected our "can I" question with "may I." What is it they cannot do? Come to Jesus. Preceding the "Father who sent me draws him" is the word "unless." So something must happen before anyone can come to Jesus and that is that the Father draws Him.

So, then we have the Father drawing people to Christ and this is often said that He does this for all people, those who believe Him and those who reject Him. But is that true? Not if you take the plain meaning of "And I will raise Him up on the last day." Those who reject Him are not raised up on the last day so it cannot be applied to them. So only those He elects or chooses are drawn to them as we see in Acts 13:47-48 For so the Lord has commanded us saying, "I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth." And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."

And we have the testimony of Jesus in John 6:25-30 when the Jews refused to believe Him. "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one."

If we get that right then verses 60-65 shed even more light on who does this drawing and how it comes about. "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all." If we are reading through John chronologically, we have already learned in John 3 that unless a man is born again by the Spirit He cannot even see (understand) the things said about the kingdom of heaven, let alone inherit the kingdom. So it is the Spirit who gives life to the dead in tresspasses (Eph 2) so that they can understand spiritual things. "The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life."

Jesus goes on to say, "But there are some of you who do not believe." and that he knew who they were from the beginning. He then repeated the early statement of being drawn to Jesus adding even a stronger wording of the same thing. "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father." Drawn and granted mean the same thing in these passages. This is a resounding declaration of the absolute sovereignty of God in every aspect of salvation, including who He chooses to draw to the Son.

I would offer or add to. In that parable "The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life."It is in contrast to "the flesh of the Son of man Jesus" it profits for nothing.

Peter prophesying given word from the Father confirms confessing it by saying. To whom can we go you have the prophecy of our Father???, as spiritual words that give spiritual life Again the tempoal dying flesh profits for zero . We can as born again believers look to the eternal things of God not seen

Many disciples that were trusting in their dying flesh walked away faithless. No faith as it is written. No way to please our Holy Father in heaven

John 6:66-69 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Not thou has the "flesh" of eternal life. Catholicism as one.

 

[Arial]

I would offer or add to. In that parable "The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life."It is in contrast to "the flesh of the Son of man Jesus" it profits for nothing.

That is not a parable, it is an actual conversation. It seems in some way you associate everything in the scriptures as parable, and I do not know where that is coming from, and do not understand it, and probably could not, so will not even begin to have a discourse, pro or con, about it. I only wanted to say it.

 

[Mr GLee]

That is not a parable, it is an actual conversation. It seems in some way you associate everything in the scriptures as parable, and I do not know where that is coming from, and do not understand it, and probably could not, so will not even begin to have a discourse, pro or con, about it. I only wanted to say it.

I see parables a little differently I think in one way its the mysteries of parables that draw us to seek his understanding ,hid frm unconverted faithless (powerless) mankind

Parables as prophecy are a actual conversations. Parable. . comparing the things seen the temporal or historical to the unseen eternal things of the faith of God. . . as a labor of his love.

Corinthians' 4: 18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
The must be mixed the temporal hiostcal to the unenetal as a parble
Parables as teachers teach us how to walk our understand by faith the unseen things of God

Luke 9 as a commentary .

A series of parable hiding the unseen eternal understanding from the non believers (No faith)

On one occasion hiding the understanding from the apostle in thier confusion Began to look for a new who is the Greatest Super Bowl quarterback. Jesus two feet from them. because without parables he spoke not,

I would think Jesus the Son of man was the most misunderstood person that walked on earth. If nt for his Holy Father the loneliest Even his own family had questions not understanding the parables

They must of thought he went off the deep end. On another occasion it looked like he wa going to Jerusalem to the Jews and he went the opposite way not understanding the parable. They demanded he bring down fire and consume all the gentiles Final in the end he rebuked them saying you know not what manner of spirit you are of.

Obviously the spirit of this world under the god of it .Good lesson of faith to the apostles as it is to us

Luke 9: 41-49 And Jesus answering said, O faithless (no understanding of the things not seen ) and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you? Bring thy son hither. And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father. And they were all amazed (no faith) at the mighty power of God. But while they wondered (no faith) every one at all things which Jesus did, he said unto his disciples,Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men.But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest. (the son of man two feet from them)And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him,The he defined great And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great. And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.

John having no faith not understanding parable made it all about what the eyes see the temporal..

Luke 9:50-53 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.

Not understanding the parable they wanted all the gentiles to perish

Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

Luke 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

I think in that way Christ spoke not without a parable. The signified tongue of God