Is Lazarus and the Rich Man a parable?

[Odë:hgöd]

.
● Luke 16:22-25 . . It came to pass that a rich man died, and was buried. And in
Hades lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham on the other side of an impassible
barrier. And Abraham said: Son, remember . . .

I should think that one of the negative aspects of perdition is memory. How people
down there retain their memories sans the brain cells they left behind with their
corpse, I don't know; but they do. Apparently God has some sort of file transfer
protocol that silicon valley has yet to discover.

The older one gets, the more memories they accumulate, and many of those
memories haunt us with terrible regret. Well; some folks' regrets can be
rationalized, but for others; their past will forever be an albatross hung around their
neck.
_

 

[atpollard]

This "parable" is found in Luke 16... but it is really a parable?

The beggar in this passage is named Lazarus. Elsewhere in the gospels, Lazarus is a real person - a friend of Jesus. Jesus stays at his house, mourns his death, and even brings back him back from the dead. Is this the same Lazarus? We can't prove whether it was or not. But at the end of the "parable," the rich man asks for Lazarus to be resurrected and sent to his brothers. Is this a hint that it's the same person?

We are told that the Rich Man was "clothed in purple and fine linen." Purple is typically reserved for royalty. Linen is the wardrobe of the priests. And fine purple linen is the wardrobe of the High Priest (Exo 28). The Rich Man also tells us that he has five brothers (v.28). Now the High Priest at the time was Caiaphas, who did indeed have five brothers, all of which famously served as High Priests in the 1st century. It seems like a foregone conclusion that the Rich Man is either Caiaphas or one of his brothers.

So the parable most likely refers to two real people. Is it really a parable?

-Jarrod

I believe it is not a parable, but an accurate account of two real people in the realm awaiting Jesus death and resurrection.
I believe that it presents a spiritual reality cloaked in imagery of what those at the time believed "Sheol" (the holding place of the dead) was like.
I believe that the changes wrought by the death and resurrection of God-man extends beyond the Old Covenant and the World of the living and transformed even death itself; therefore the story of Lazarus reflects "what was" but not "what is" and when God is finished (new heaven and earth) what "will be".

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Is it really a parable?

It's a parable.

Next question???

 

[Odë:hgöd]

I believe it is not a parable

Even if Luke 16:19-31 were a parable, that wouldn't necessarily make it a fantasy.

I have yet to read even one of Jesus' other stories that couldn't possibly be taken
from real-life . They're all actually quite believable— banquets, stewards, weddings,
farmers sowing seed, pearls, lost sheep, fish nets, lost coins, sons leaving home,
wineskins bursting, tares among the wheat, leavened bread, barren fig trees, the
blind leading the blind, et al.

Now; if Jesus had told a story with a moon made of green cheese, or about a bullet
with butterfly wings; we would have good reason to believe that at least those
particular stories are off the wall; but not one of them is so far removed from the
normal round of human experience that they have no basis in reality whatsoever. It
seems inconsistent to me that Jesus would tell so many realistic stories and then
spin a silly yarn; especially a yarn with real people in it.
_

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
● Luke 16:19a . .There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine
linen, and fared sumptuously every day; and there was a certain beggar named
Lazarus, which was laid at his gate

In other words: the rich man had to walk past Lazarus every day on his way to
work.

"was laid" suggests Lazarus had a disability issue and needed help to get around,
sort like the guy Jesus assisted at the pool of Bethesda. (John 5:2- -9)

● Luke 16:19b . . covered with sores.

In those days, common treatments included essential oils, e.g. Rosemary,
Frankincense, Myrrh, and Cedarwood. (cf. Luke 10:33-34)

● Luke 16:21b . . the dogs came and licked his sores.

Essential oils were expensive, but I've no doubt the rich man was able to afford
them, and could've spared some of his for Lazarus instead forcing the poor slob to
rely on dogs for treatment.

● Luke 16:21a . . and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table.

In our day, that's called dumpster diving; but no matter as Lazarus was unable to
do that for himself due to his disability.

● Luke 16:27-29 . . I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have
five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of
torment. Abraham replied: They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to
them.

Seeing as how the rich man's' five brothers had Moses and the Prophets, then I
think we can safely assume the rich man had them too. Well; that's not good for
the man because Moses said:

"If one of your countrymen becomes poor and is unable to support himself among
you, help him as you would an alien or a temporary resident, so he can continue to
live among you." (Lev 25:35)

Apparently the man ignored that law, and by doing so got himself in some serious
trouble.

"Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them
out." (Deut 27:26)
_

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
In the story told at Luke 16-19-31, the beggar Lazarus died and was carried by
angels to the afterlife. Curiously, the rich man's transportation isn't specified.

One of the most disturbing scenes I've yet to observe in a Hollywood movie occurs
in "GHOST" starring Patrick Swayze and Demi Moore. When someone marked for
the wrong side of the afterlife passes away, these eerie phantoms emerge, having
the appearance of black oily smoke, uttering awful moans, and drag their panic
stricken captives down into the ground.

I don't know if that's how the rich man in Luke's story was transported, but if so; I
can well imagine just how shocking and horrifying it must've been for him at death
to suddenly be able to see menacing supernatural creatures surrounding him with
looks on their faces that could only convey but one unmistakable intent; and I suspect
those sinister beings had been hovering around that poor man and stalking him every
day and night of his entire life without him knowing it and patiently waiting for the
green light to take him down.
_

 

[Mr GLee]

I believe it is not a parable, but an accurate account of two real people in the realm awaiting Jesus death and resurrection.
I believe that it presents a spiritual reality cloaked in imagery of what those at the time believed "Sheol" (the holding place of the dead) was like.
I believe that the changes wrought by the death and resurrection of God-man extends beyond the Old Covenant and the World of the living and transformed even death itself; therefore the story of Lazarus reflects "what was" but not "what is" and when God is finished (new heaven and earth) what "will be".

Does accurate accounts include God communing with the dead as in necromancy like the use of what some call patron saints. . disembodied workers with a familiar spirit (not familiar to the word of God).

The Rich man used in a series of parables is wisdom of this world (mammon) it represent false prophets, false apostles (the Pharisees with Sadducees the subject of the matter). . it must be looked at a whole series of parables with the same conclusion beginning in the previous chapter 15 There using sheep to represent the born again children of God, the true eternal riches of God. . . and given another right on top

The parable of the "Rich waiting Father" who gave the inheritance. . . . . then when all was lost the same grace that gave strength for the Son of to leave. . . . God's love drew the Son right back to the Father the true source of spiritual blessing yoked with Christ. the same aparbl as the same conclusion comes in the next chapter. Chapter 16 (teeth anger, tongue thirst for water). A famine for hearing the gospel .

He certainly was not communing with the God of scripture he was looking to the dead flesh of Abraham following that oral tradition of kings and fathers .I heard it through the father grape vine . Many unbelieving Jew believed that there dying Jewish flesh could profit for something towards salivation?

It would seem simply no man can serve two good teaching master as one Lord .

(#1)necromancy the riches of this world in action. . . opposing (#2) sola scriptura all things written in the law and prophet the true riches leading to the green pastures of nap time.

Call no man on earth Father Abraham Abraham means the one father of all the nation of the world. Our unseen Holy Father the Spirit of Christ that works in Christians

Again God does not speak to the dead thier moery diaered when taking ther last breath

Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
● Luke 16:22-24 . . The rich man also died and was buried. And in hades he lifted
up his eyes . . . and saw Abraham far away . . and he cried out and said: Father
Abraham!

The Greek word hades is equivalent to the Hebrew word sheol, and both are
commonly interpreted "the grave".

Well; my problem with that is people in the grave are supposed to be dead, yet
here is a corpse in its grave that appears sentient and able to communicate with
not only another corpse, but with one over in a different grave. How were they
doing that? Do the dead have access to some sort of world-wide cemetery network
complete with services like Face Time and Zoom?

Plus, the story depicts Abraham hugging Lazarus. How so? Was Lazarus buried in
Abraham's grave; maybe even lain right on top of him? (It's likely Lazarus wasn't
given a decent burial but instead his corpse tossed into a city dump and burned.)

Now, if folks want to use the story told at Luke 16:19-31 as an allegory-- i.e.
spiritualize it --well; more power to them. However, when the Bible allegorizes
things, it usually works with reality rather than fiction. For example Melchizedek
(Heb 5:6) and Isaac & Esau (Gal 4:22-24)

NOTE: The afterlife is something about which I thus far know very little. However, it's
readily seen from Isaiah 14:4-20 and Luke 16:19-31 that folks on the other side
are conscious, sentient, and recognizable; plus, they exhibit human characteristics,
e.g. Abraham has a bosom, Lazarus has a finger, and the rich man has eyes, a
tongue, and memory. From all appearances, people over there appear fully human.
Exactly how that is, I don't really know. That world over there is obviously very
different than the world with which I am familiar over here.
_

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.

Now, if folks want to use the story told at Luke 16:19-31 as an allegory-- i.e.
spiritualize it --well; more power to them. However, when the Bible allegorizes
things, it usually works with reality rather than fiction. For example Melchizedek
(Heb 5:6) and Isaac & Esau (Gal 4:22-24)

Instead of Isaac and Esau, it's supposed to be Isaac and Ishmael.

Mea Culpa
_

 

[Mr GLee]

.
● Luke 16:22-24 . . The rich man also died and was buried. And in hades he lifted
up his eyes . . . and saw Abraham far away . . and he cried out and said: Father
Abraham!

The Greek word hades is equivalent to the Hebrew word sheol, and both are
commonly interpreted "the grave".

Well; my problem with that is people in the grave are supposed to be dead, yet
here is a corpse in its grave that appears sentient and able to communicate with
not only another corpse, but with one over in a different grave. How were they
doing that? Do the dead have access to some sort of world-wide cemetery network
complete with services like Face Time and Zoom?

Plus, the story depicts Abraham hugging Lazarus. How so? Was Lazarus buried in
Abraham's grave; maybe even lain right on top of him? (It's likely Lazarus wasn't
given a decent burial but instead his corpse tossed into a city dump and burned.)

Now, if folks want to use the story told at Luke 16:19-31 as an allegory-- i.e.
spiritualize it --well; more power to them. However, when the Bible allegorizes
things, it usually works with reality rather than fiction. For example Melchizedek
(Heb 5:6) and Isaac & Esau (Gal 4:22-24)

NOTE: The afterlife is something about which I thus far know very little. However, it's
readily seen from Isaiah 14:4-20 and Luke 16:19-31 that folks on the other side
are conscious, sentient, and recognizable; plus, they exhibit human characteristics,
e.g. Abraham has a bosom, Lazarus has a finger, and the rich man has eyes, a
tongue, and memory. From all appearances, people over there appear fully human.
Exactly how that is, I don't really know. That world over there is obviously very
different than the world with which I am familiar over here.
_

Exactly the whole purpose of a parable is to teach us how to walk by the unseen eternal things of God . Not the dead faithless .

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
● Luke 16:24 . . Abraham replied: Between us and you there is a great chasm
fixed, in order that those who wish to come over from here to you may not be able,
and that none may cross over from there to us.

Luke portrays only a small portion of the geology where Abraham and the rich man
conversed; suggesting that the two locations of the chasm where the men stood
are peninsulas or narrow cornices.

But I rather suspect that the rims of the chasm are straight and parallel like the
banks of a canal; plus extending sufficient distance in either direction to
accommodate hundreds, maybe even thousands, of friends and relatives seeking to
connect with their loved ones and BFFs over on the other side.

Although folks aren't permitted to cross back and forth over the chasm, they can at
least communicate visually and audibly. I hope that's still the case because I would
hate to think that I won't be able to catch up with my lost loved ones and my BFFs
before they're permanently vanquished to the lake of brimstone depicted at Rev
20:11-15.
_

 

[Mr GLee]

.
● Luke 16:24 . . Abraham replied: Between us and you there is a great chasm
fixed, in order that those who wish to come over from here to you may not be able,
and that none may cross over from there to us.

Luke portrays only a small portion of the geology where Abraham and the rich man
conversed; suggesting that the two locations of the chasm where the men stood
are peninsulas or narrow cornices.

But I rather suspect that the rims of the chasm are straight and parallel like the
banks of a canal; plus extending sufficient distance in either direction to
accommodate hundreds, maybe even thousands, of friends and relatives seeking to
connect with their loved ones and BFFs over on the other side.

Although folks aren't permitted to cross back and forth over the chasm, they can at
least communicate visually and audibly. I hope that's still the case because I would
hate to think that I won't be able to catch up with my lost loved ones and my BFFs
before they're permanently vanquished to the lake of brimstone depicted at Rev
20:11-15.
_

Hell is the living sufferings we experience in these bodies of death . Its appointed for all men to die once. No retrial double as double jeopardy .

The lie that mankind suffers after death last breath of breath of life (limbo purgatory) is a teaching of the Pharisee with Sadducees commandments of men oral traditions passed down to Roman Catholics with Eastern Orthodox.

Yoked with Christ we can receive the daily bread needed to nourish our dying as good as dead never to rise to new life bodies

It's the kind of daily food the disciples knew not of at first. . yoked with Christ sufferings/

John 4:33-35King James Version Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Its the use of word "dead" that causes confusion. its what did caused them above.They had no faith coming form Christ spirt of faith that could please God . . powerless having no no understanding .They had the milk of the word that teaches us God is Gracious. . but no meat needed to move mankind do will and do the good works of the Father

Jesus strengthened by the Father performed the meat of the word he did not murrur like some .

The key is both. . (1) reveal the will and (2)empower to do it to his good pleasure (not our good pleasure) Our pleasure is to be strengthened to do His will !

Philippians 2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

 

[Odë:hgöd]

.
● Luke 16:29-31 . . Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets; let
them hear them. And he said: No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from
the dead, they will repent. But he said to him: If they do not hear Moses and the
prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.

* Apparently the rich man's brothers weren't what we might call conscientious
students of the Bible.

Anyway; I've seen a few movies relative to the so-called Rapture. They all leave out
a very showy portion of that future event wherein 2,000 years of Christians will
return from death to join those living so that all together can ascend to meet Christ
up in the sky all at one time. We're talking about an event wherein Christians won't
just vanish at the snap of the fingers like Hollywood typically portrays the Rapture,
but instead the entire scene will be an activity easily observed by everyone all
'round the world as millions of Christians of all ages, races, and genders rise in the air
like a plague of locusts.

I expect quite a few Christians will be taken up from interior locations like office
buildings, factories, mines, garages, homes, schools, vehicles, and malls, etc.
Nobody will bump their heads on the way out because, according to John 20:19 and
John 20:26, He who created all things can easily manipulate the structure of solid
objects to allow the human body to pass thru unimpeded.

Point being: I can't help but wonder about the effect this event is going to have
upon unbelieving folk around the world who observe it; especially when 2,000 years
of deceased Christians suddenly make an appearance alive. Well; I think it will
make unbelievers nervous at first, but I kind of suspect it won't suffice to change
their minds.
_

 

[Mr GLee]

.
● Luke 16:29-31 . . Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets; let
them hear them. And he said: No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from
the dead, they will repent. But he said to him: If they do not hear Moses and the
prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.

* Apparently the rich man's brothers weren't what we might call conscientious
students of the Bible.

Anyway; I've seen a few movies relative to the so-called Rapture. They all leave out
a very showy portion of that future event wherein 2,000 years of Christians will
return from death to join those living so that all together can ascend to meet Christ
up in the sky all at one time. We're talking about an event wherein Christians won't
just vanish at the snap of the fingers like Hollywood typically portrays the Rapture,
but instead the entire scene will be an activity easily observed by everyone all
'round the world as millions of Christians of all ages, races, and genders rise in the air
like a plague of locusts.

I expect quite a few Christians will be taken up from interior locations like office
buildings, factories, mines, garages, homes, schools, vehicles, and malls, etc.
Nobody will bump their heads on the way out because, according to John 20:19 and
John 20:26, He who created all things can easily manipulate the structure of solid
objects to allow the human body to pass thru unimpeded.

Point being: I can't help but wonder about the effect this event is going to have
upon unbelieving folk around the world who observe it; especially when 2,000 years
of deceased Christians suddenly make an appearance alive. Well; I think it will
make unbelievers nervous at first, but I kind of suspect it won't suffice to change
their minds.
_

I would think of it as. . . the twinkling of the eye on the last day under the Sun and moon. the two temporal corruption timekeepers winding down to the wake up call "arise Christians" receive your new body as Christ's eternal bride. . the old will not be remember or ever come to mind . I do not think that God is under any obligation to prove to the faithless world .

Some of the what I call more dramatic ideas looking more toward the things seen the temporal. they must be mixed with that not seen

Thousand years a unknown not revealed number representing all of sons of God . . . Christians

God does not reveal it, its simply under the Sun .The new creation has no Sun or moon. God is Light and not that he can only create .In the way he will come like a thief in the night rapture those asleep as the old creation goes up in everlasting smoke

 

[Michael Snow]

This "parable" is found in Luke 16... but it is really a parable?

The beggar in this passage is named Lazarus. Elsewhere in the gospels, Lazarus is a real person - a friend of Jesus. Jesus stays at his house, mourns his death, and even brings back him back from the dead. Is this the same Lazarus? We can't prove whether it was or not. But at the end of the "parable," the rich man asks for Lazarus to be resurrected and sent to his brothers. Is this a hint that it's the same person?

We are told that the Rich Man was "clothed in purple and fine linen." Purple is typically reserved for royalty. Linen is the wardrobe of the priests. And fine purple linen is the wardrobe of the High Priest (Exo 28). The Rich Man also tells us that he has five brothers (v.28). Now the High Priest at the time was Caiaphas, who did indeed have five brothers, all of which famously served as High Priests in the 1st century. It seems like a foregone conclusion that the Rich Man is either Caiaphas or one of his brothers.

So the parable most likely refers to two real people. Is it really a parable?

-Jarrod

Yes.

 

[Mr GLee]

Yes.

Christ protecting the integrity of his living abiding word.

A series five parables beginning in chapter 15 continuing through chapter 16. Five (the number of redemption) working as one to represent the riches of the gospel as it is writen in the law and prophets (sola scriptural) Apposing the oral traditons of dying mankind.

(1) sheep
(2) silver
(3) two sons or the waiting Father.
(4) Lazarus the oil tycoon
(5) No man can serve two infalible good teaching masters

The final parable "no man can serve two good teaching masters" . Both the revealed wisdom of God and the lust of the flesh lust of the eyes the two building blocks of false pride 1 John 2:16 therefore. Not of our Holy Father (sola scriptura) the rich armor of God

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

The Pharisees with Sadducees looked to the riches of this world as mammon worldly wisdom

Luke 16 :13-17 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it .And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Three times uses law and the prophets (law and its testimony the prophets ) or Moses and the prophets (sola scriptura) in order to keep the integrity of his living word

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[Eleanor]

It's a parable if you see the bothers' failure to pay attention to Scripture and its teaching as analagous to their failure to pay attention to Scripture and its teaching regarding Christ.

 

[Alive]

It’s a parable. The dead know nothing.
Sleep until the resurrection.

 

[Eleanor]

It’s a parable. The dead know nothing.
Sleep until the resurrection.

To be away from the body is to be home with the Lord (2 Co 5:8), clothed with our heavenly dwelling (v.2) in a disembodied state.

 

[Alive]

To be away from the body is to be home with the Lord (2 Co 5:8), clothed with our heavenly dwelling in a disembodied state.

I see that as from our point of view. From sleep to waking at the resurrection.
I could be wrong.