Is freewill real or just something we invented it ?

[Grumix88]

We start from the beginning when Adam was giving the power to name the animals G-d gave him freewill to choose Genesis 2:20.
20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him.

Here G-d gives Adam gives him ability to think for himself and he decide the animals name.

There is difference from the freewill Hebrew people back in the days of Noah and Moses when the law was directed to G-d's people they had freewill to decide. Their decision is under the law because they did not know other religions or ways they were narrowminded but still the decision from good and evil existed. Did the errors of their fathers before them I mean the fall of Adam stopped them making decisions in their life. Israel did what they want based still of need of surviving. Killing, eating, proceating needs of humanity but no matter what the error of Adam did not take freewill from them.

Romans 7:19 “For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.”

Ezekiel 18:20 “The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”

Psalm 110:2 "Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power; In holy array, from the womb of the dawn, Your youth are to You as the dew."



From the day pagans evolved into modern world and establish their own way. Even thou they seperated from their pagan worhsip Rome forced them to mix their deities and influence with christianism and robbed the followers of Christ of Jesus and they painted him white. Named the G-d of Israel to Zeus and change their panteon.

Hebrew law or mosaic law reminds people to obey but G-d has taken prophets to save and do the will of G-d in wars, missions, and choosing good and evil. They break the law in disobeying G-d, prophets like Jeremiah who chose G-d disobey tradition and his father and told Israel their errors and love for the temple forgotten the temple inside they are made of.
Kick Jeremiah out of their circle rejected from society he continued, we have Moses who was ordered by God to pray to the rock and water will come out but Moses disobey and changes things and hit the rock. This angered God and told him he will not enter the promise land. Moses change what God said changed the destiny israel had to had an error while using the word of God,
Numbers 20:6-12
we have Huldah who made mistake in prophecy which A king said he was going to die A peaceful death 2 Chronicles 34:28 and then he died by arrows and had horrible mistake 2 Chronicles 35:22-24.

Here linkhttps://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-qa/qa-archives/question/do-prophets-of-god-make-mistakes-sometimes/

also Elijah who said Acab will die in one place and Acab did not die according to what Elijah said.
1 Kings 22:1-40

This what shows that destiny changed and the lord allowed it happen he can rewind and move it but he did not becuase he has A plan of God.

Still people can change their course in life if mistake happened like those times of moses. We can change our destiny by failure of men and women who with God prophecy was shown here with Moses and Huldah. Not saying you should make the same mistaek as they did for not God's fault even if moses and huldah with words change the future of Israel and changed the destiny God adjusted to show he forgives moses and Huldah and those did happen. Destiny of your life being a poor shoesales man, poor garbageman, and what you see in your future can always change but ask God for it and do not make the mistakes Moses and Huldah did.

People can change their course in life but what is the promblem from today. Is how the Greek way of thinking of liberalism was popular in the time of Jesus.

James 2:12 "So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty."

2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."


And Greeks influence the time of jesus that people like Luke wrote his book in the bible and later Catholic church not knowing fully Hebrew culture copied things from greeks and influence the bible. Remember they were not G-d's people but A country that stoled and wrote their intrepretation of G-d and took Jesus as an emblema that is not real.

Greek theology is freedom and rationalist thought, Hebrew people is Law and Relation with the one G-d. Greeks have influence the modernworld and gives them right, the western world copies Greek and Roman culture and their diffinity in their laws have given the modern topic freewill. So freewill clashes with freewill in the old times. That is why everything has to do with predestination, Calvanism go ahead and read see all our versions of choosing good and evil have consequences but still you decide your future.


There are 2 fields :indeterminism and determinism explain modern freewill and both give notion of control. Indeterminism means free acts are not determine in other words what you do with works does not foretold your future and the path you have chosen. Determinism says everything you do has already decided your future and you have no career. Nothing can change your destiny but G-d can.

Matthew 12:37 “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

God's general sovereignty- says god is in charge of everything but doesn't control everything
God's specific sovereignty- says that He not only has ordained everything, but He also controls everything.

Proverbs 16:9 “The mind of the man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps.

Proverbs 3:5-6"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

So...I'm unclear on what you think of free will even after all this? Could you give us a synopsis and a conclusion?

 

[Grumix88]

This is the point only God who is creator of good and evil of light and darkness is who moves it all, we were never meant to understand. What would of happen if he would of not put the tree of good and evil and would of never enter this world. We would of being like children still with our envelope of innocence and be in front ogf God protected by him ?


Yes, our purpose was not good or evil and by human fault we felled. If the tree was not their we would of fallen one will ask ? Nope, everything has plan and God never wanted man in this position what was the purpose of the tree afterwards ? if he would never eaten of it would of other animals eat of it and not man ? or later remove as time passed ? We will never know ? What was really the purpose just as A test of not to be eatena nd alter remove by God ?





But still we know God said that man was like him and the angels that knoweth good and evil ! And still we realize the devil had freewill before us and he fell ! But we know that in our error of Adam we can decide not like the devil but do good in the mistake and rely on God's effort and not our owns and put things in God's hands. Our destiny can change and move but some of you question we cannot escape him or his destiny he saved for us. The question do you want the destiny he did not prepare and leave us in possibility of A million to one what will happen and man just be thrown in space and let him decide ? What will be the outcome if you can plan everyhing since your born from A baby and turn into an adult that instance and God gave you all the power of the future and destiny you wanted ? you will know what you know and you will make A decision better ?




No, this why it is better that inside this world we live we can live in many possibilities and be saved by grace and baptized from sin into salvation and put love into salvation ! We would not of found our destiny if we could decide our destiny in that moment from baby to adult in space. He put us in Eden to be protected and choose not to eat the tree of good and evil and let use have choice ! If we didn't eat we will be perfect and without sin ! But we felled and he gave As econd chance in Jesus and glad that even those scientist believe if they ahd possiblity to ebf ree into choosing thier future our possiblities from predestination would make thier sum of equations and free from God soveriegn and have freewill ?





You have freewill protected and relying in God's effort and his soveriegn that you are not in space making decision but here in the world where in his care of law of moses and law of genesis. They would not of eating the fruti they will live in the probabilities in those rules and soveriegn of G-d's law and love. Be under his guidance and be saved. Knowing we can change those probablities and change our destiny from being A shoe salesman and into lawyer or governor of A state and reach our max and be what we want !


Moses change those probabilities and also Huldah in her prophecy, G-d could reverse those action make us forget it and then done but he let those error stay and destiny was changed seeing he does not make it all effect in a sense of our errors do not ruin our future and in error the Eden will return and heaven on earth and we will be saved despite our errors in Jesus. God could of just erase us and no one will know of our exsitence and done but he lets us know and see those error have existed and predestiantion can change and destiny and sum of those variables and one million in one probablities can change and anything is possible. Let us do good and make knowing of good and evil in God's favor and find our purpose in life and pray to him.


See he made probablities and the sense some people say that one can make decision and really can't change thier future or predestiantion just fear and laziness that future can change and just like Moses and Huldah made mistake know we can make success into our favor and do good and change our future with him and play hard ball i life and into all the promblems life does go thru and breakthru it all and not passive christian that rolls over and breaks the mold life give and make good in life and saves his family.


Kicks and screams and changes his future his predestiantion and not this that with God you can't change your future or predestiantion I see you can't change your future idea and you do not understand it still ! This why you do not understand how freewill works in God's favor and his plan of God. But still stuck with the laws of modern world and liberalism USA faces ! You have freedom to choose and better under God's wing and not in space where psycologist and scientist say they don't get to choose and if they choose they would make more errors and wouldn't recognize them !

 

[Grumix88]

We have freewill God lets us decide to do good or bad and our purpose in life is when we make that decision. it's easy to not know that purpose because we are different. But freewill God gives it but he also gives us the law and the law is not wrong and niether is freewill just soceity itself is wrong and we have forgotten what is the normal back in those days. Society mistakes and thinks G-d is against freewill but gave freewill the right to choose and they have invented freewill is voting, paying taxes, and civics duties. No people those things are the mistake modern society makes because they think they have evolved in such A way they surpass all of Israel back in those day but truth G-d is fair and gave us all. We have lost what is important love because human society is wrong and it's foundation is false and invented by masons.

G-d created it all the rocks, the atmosphere, everything has been giving and from all that we have built buildings and empires everything we have built has come from him modern world is our work and act but we do not acknowledge them we take the glory and everything for we are sinful. The concept of government we have created but we emulated it from G-d and his kingdom the order G-d has it first, the structure he establish since the dawn of the universe. We have created rights but we cannot use our rights agaisnt G-d and say he has violated them or civic manner say our freedom and establishment of our democracy hits against G-d and his kingdom. For he has the kingdom and the law. The law of his word and we do not have that for G-d gave us words but we are babylon the law is only his. Nor it belongs to hebrew people, eunuchs, or angels it only belongs to him to judge.

Our own system is flaw because we copy from each empire that has been establish Babylon, Rome, Greece, Britian, and Nazi Germany. Each has given its concept of right and law and all have copied each other and failed. Because again bible has establish that G-d and his system works and we with our notion of democracy and rights have copied on Rome and Babylon and they are wrong. The most important things that because we have technology which has help us after world war 2 we think we have surpass it all and enter the digitla world and we circumvalent our promblems of family, corruption, and normal things we had before the 1950's and think we are gods. And we want to be eternal and to be like powerful like G-d because it is what we have always been thinking because all of it is copy. When we are original and have the right system like he does everything works but our government and system does not because we are with flaws and our own boundaries aren't the solutions they are A reminder that we will never have A perfect system thus our rights and belief in them cannot be the truth. The freewill is revealed that there is A difference from freewill with G-d on accepting the right and wrong and succeeding in that way and from freewill from our modern concept which has failed and clashes with G-d's law which is right and truth and unless we do not use our rights against G-d freewill is that what we make only A lie and it existence false.

Freewill from that point of view is that of society and since society has masonry in it and all foundations of masonery is babylon and Dagon it compells people to make G-d like unfair despotism but you cannot apply that to G-d for he is G-d and he is God of Gods those words are just feeble people who make laws copying the old empires and fallacy arrives in it's policy. There is A way government can follow G-d's politics but that will be another day. But people and society will always collapse confronting and using thier rights and saying there is no freewill when you have to one understand things from G-d's point of view understand what serveth the law, how the law is completed thru love and how faith as A tool helps you make A better realtionship with G-d. When you find the truth and love in his way that G-d establish thru Jesus Christ you understand A secret way which freewill co-exist with G-d and love is what that bound unites it and makes freewill work but not under modern society but thru G-d mosaic law and know that is true freewill has been given to you but from the stance of modern world and republics establish go into error. I will explain more but have did A lot.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Ok...somewhere in there I get the impression that you believe that men have free will. Now does this "free will" include the ability of unregenerate man to "choose G-d" in a salvific way?

 

[ReverendRV]

So...I'm unclear on what you think of free will even after all this? Could you give us a synopsis and a conclusion?

This is what I think Free Will is; and isn't...

God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.4

Of God's Decree — The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith

Chapter 3

www.the1689confession.com

I sum the paragraph from the Confession by saying, 'The Liberty of the Will is established as a Secondary Cause, without God offering Violence to get his way'. I think that after a little pressing, we would all agree this explains our Free Will...

BUT; I would say that the Confession speaks loudly in what it doesn't say. It infers that the Liberty of the Will is NOT established as a Primary Causation. Only God's Will is established as a Primary Causation. If our Will is a Primary Causation, and we think we're equal to God; will Crash like Lightning, somewhere...

I suggest the Free Will Debate is over people wanting to establish that their Will is the Primary Cause in their lives...

 

[fastfredy0]

Free Will
Augustine’s Definition - one always chooses that which he desires most at the time .... REAL (true)

Johnathon Edwards Definition - A man never, in any instance, wills anything contrary to his desires [greatest perceived pleasing of chooser], or desires anything contrary to his Will. The Determination of the Will, supposes an effect, which must have a cause. .... REAL (true)
Libertarian Free Will - Libertarian Free Will is the ability to make choices without any prior prejudice, inclination, or disposition. For the will to be free it must act from a posture of neutrality, with absolutely no bias. It determines its own volitions; so as not to be dependent, in its determinations, on any cause without itself, nor determined by anything prior to its own acts. Indifference and therefore amorality belongs to Liberty in their notion of it, or that the mind, previous to the act of volition, be in equilibrio (equilibrium in uncertainty). .... Invented (untrue)

Self-determinism (freewill) means one makes choices independent of God and any other influences. Invented (untrue)

 

[Grumix88]

Freewill exist for the unregenerate man and elected to be save because they still have freedom to decide to be free of sin and also to choose to be saved thru Jesus or later fall from him. He gives that freedom to choose and have sin or not.

 

[ReverendRV]

Freewill exist for the unregenerate man and elected to be save because they still have freedom to decide to be free of sin and also to choose to be saved thru Jesus or later fall from him. He gives that freedom to choose and have sin or not.

At the end of the day, everyone will agree we do have Free Will; and they will agree our Will is in Bondage to something. It's arguing over just how free our Will is; that's the big problem...

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Freewill exist for the unregenerate man and elected to be save because they still have freedom to decide to be free of sin and also to choose to be saved thru Jesus or later fall from him. He gives that freedom to choose and have sin or not.

At the end of the day, everyone will agree we do have Free Will; and they will agree our Will is in Bondage to something. It's arguing over just how free our Will is; that's the big problem...

Did someone say "bondage"?

https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/luther/Bondage%20of%20the%20Will%20-%20Martin%20Luther.pdf

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Freewill exist for the unregenerate man and elected to be save because they still have freedom to decide to be free of sin and also to choose to be saved thru Jesus or later fall from him. He gives that freedom to choose and have sin or not.

And you base this on...?

 

[Grumix88]

With bible verses explaining this will post them.

 

[Eleanor]

At the end of the day, everyone will agree we do have Free Will; and they will agree our Will is in Bondage to something. It's arguing over just how free our Will is; that's the big problem...

I'm sayin' it has limited freedom.

 

[Eleanor]

With bible verses explaining this will post them.

See Ro 8:7-8, 1 Co 2:14, Jn 3:3.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

With bible verses explaining this will post them.

Before you do take a look here for your favorites:

Q&A Topics | Salvation By Grace

 

[Grumix88]

People the question do we have freewill ? is it biblical ?


Their is no word in hebrew that is freewill you need to put 2 hebrews for that and the concept is that they have A decision and choice to do good or evil and God gave it. Question did the enemy had A choice becaus of his rebellion. I don't like the devil and do not want to say but he ahd A choice and he did bad and good. The nature of good and evil or conscience of existence the choice ? People just make things more simple just do good and put things in God's hands and he will make your choice over the path he gave the power to move it and do good not bad.

 

[Grumix88]

People the scripture uses the word "will"
בצוואה
and "free"
But to describe a person as free, as in not a slave, you’d say בֶּן/בַּת חוֹרִין (ben/baht hoh-REEN

Free and will do exist but to make in concept it is need the thing of freedom and good and evil the conscience to be able in hebrew in writting but they cuould not explain they did not have the experience of government,freedom of women, freedom of slavery, and concept of theology were needed but still the base is that choice by God to be with him in doing good or evil but consequence is death for evil or eternal life for good.


Their is gray area and that is Elijah's error, Moses Error, and Huldah as prophets that they made mistakes and change the destiny of the plan of God but God cover it with forgivness and let them learn from thier errors for A purpose and all purpose being good or evil will be in the end A happy ending in revelations. Put things in God hands and put love they God and nieghbor and he will do the rest ;D.

 

[Grumix88]

Destiny can be changed and it's based on choice God gave it so use it wisely.freewill does exist even do in light and dark is use it is God who decides.

chekc this out and it gives different perspectives about freewill.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

People the question do we have freewill ? is it biblical ?


Their is no word in hebrew that is freewill you need to put 2 hebrews for that and the concept is that they have A decision and choice to do good or evil and God gave it. Question did the enemy had A choice becaus of his rebellion. I don't like the devil and do not want to say but he ahd A choice and he did bad and good. The nature of good and evil or conscience of existence the choice ? People just make things more simple just do good and put things in God's hands and he will make your choice over the path he gave the power to move it and do good not bad.

Book, Chapter, and verse please.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Destiny can be changed and it's based on choice God gave it so use it wisely.freewill does exist even do in light and dark is use it is God who decides.

chekc this out and it gives different perspectives about freewill.

You might be well served by studying the concept of Theodicy.

You could start with the first three audio messages here:

Galatians (revisited) | Salvation By Grace