What is freewill?

[TonyChanYT]

As an ontological question, there is no consensual answer to this among philosophers. In practice, however, I know I have my freewill. I can sense it. OT mentions it in Exodus 35:

29 All the Israelite men and women who were willing brought to the LORD freewill offerings for all the work the LORD through Moses had commanded them to do.

The Bible assumes the existence of freewill. 1 Corinthians 7 talks about freedom and will:

37 But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin—this man also does the right thing.

A similar concept is expressed in (BSB) Philemon 1:

14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness will not be out of compulsion, but by your own free will.

On the other hand, Paul talks of God's influencing our will in Philippians 2:

13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

Ephesians 1:

5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will/

Our free will is a faculty/organ in our brain that makes choices when presented with alternatives. It is up to us to choose. The term freewill, however, is a bit misleading as if it is totally free from all external factors and influences. Alternatively, instead of "freewill", one can speak of "sovereign will" or "independent volition". I have my volitional faculty. That's what I call my freewill.

Is there freewill in heaven?

Yes, I will still possess my own volitional faculty or independent volition.

By my definition, the volition organ is part of the soul, and the soul is formed when God's breath (spirit) interacted with the body. According to this definition, AIs do not have a freewill unless God breathes on them.

See also Do we choose to repent?.

 

[Josheb]

As an ontological question, there is no consensual answer to this among philosophers. In practice, however, I know I have my freewill. I can sense it.

Ah, knowledge by sensation.

No.

OT mentions it in Exodus 35:


The Bible assumes the existence of freewill. 1 Corinthians 7 talks about freedom and will:

Six problems here, @TonyChanYT...

1. As has already been established in the previous thread, "freewill" is not the same thing as "free will."
2. The word "freewill" does not occur in the New Testament. Neither does it occur prior to the Law. By appealing to Exodus what you've done is use scripture selectively, not wholly.
3. You need to define your terms and when you do not you violate your own standards, one you have imposed upon others but have not yourself practiced.
4. This conversation should be had in the thread where the matter originally appeared because it is disingenuous to move the conversation elsewhere without notifying those abandoned in the earlier discussion and not linking this thread to the old so new readers understand the history of this thread (and the prior avoidance).
5. Free will is not identical to volitional agency. That's why it is important and necessary to define terms. No one denies the sinner volitional agency. Discussions of free will also have to do with salvation, not other choices. Everyone here will readily acknowledge the sinner is capable of choosing his favorite flavor of ice cream or which route he'd like to take home for work. The debate over "free will" is about the sinfully dead and enslaved sinner's ability to choose God for salvation, not which pair of socks to wear. On every occasion where that is ignored a red herring is being argued.
6. The Bible does not assume free will. It assumes volitional agency within specific limitations.
7. The word "free" means autonomous, not controlled, unfettered, not under the power or control of another. There are many limitations on human will. One of them is God. The human will cannot overthrow God's will. Two other limitations are time and space. Another is sin. There are others. The human will is not free. It has agency, but it is not free. When the word "free" is not defined fallacious arguments of ambiguity ensue.
8. 1 Cor. 7 has nothing to do with a sinner's ability to choose salvation. A false equivalence has been argued.

Until those eight problems are addressed and solved the matter of Occam's Razor applied to freewill. Most of these were broached in goodwill with you in the previous thread (and ignored).

Our free will is a faculty/organ in our brain that makes choices when presented with alternatives.

According to Romans 1, the thinking of God-denying sinful man is futile. According to Romans 8 the mind of flesh is hostile to God, and it does not and CANNOT please God. Logic tells us a mind that cannot do something is not a free, unfettered, uncontrolled, autonomous mind.

It is up to us to choose.

Choose what, exactly? Be specific.

The term freewill, however, is a bit misleading as if it is totally free from all external factors and influences. Alternatively, instead of "freewill", one can speak of "sovereign will" or "independent volition". I have my volitional faculty. That's what I call my freewill.

Is your will free = totally free from all external factors and influences, or not?

Is there freewill in heaven?

Yes, I will still possess my own volitional faculty or independent volition.

You're moving the goalposts and contradicting yourself and avoiding the crux of the issue. Freewill is not free will. Theological and soteriological discussion of free will are not about what happens in heaven after we've been raised from the dead and been transformed to something completely different than what we were before coming to Christ.

By my definition...

You do not get to define terms for all other people, and your definition is not scriptural.

By my definition, the volition organ is part of the soul, and the soul is formed when God's breath (spirit) interacted with the body.

Does God have a soul? Did God breath God's living breath into His body to form a soul? You've gone on record saying God has a will and now you're saying the "volitional organ" is in the brain and part of the soul. God, therefore, must have a brain and a soul made of God-breath and body.

You have asserted it.

Are you prepared to explain and defend it?

If so, then please do so. If not, then why post ops like this? Is it expected everyone will believe the op simply because it has a reddit post to prove it? Use this forum to improve yourself. Don't shy away from these discussions. Engage them.

According to this definition, AIs do not have a freewill unless God breathes on them.

According to the psalms God also breathed His breath of life into other animals. Do they have fee will, or volitional agency?

See also Do we choose to repent?.

Ah! There's the tie to salvation! Another reddit article, one that is just as flawed as this forum op.

Can you show me one example in the Bible in which scripture explicitly reports a sinfully dead and enslaved sinner chose to salvifically repent entirely on his own, without God intervening, and the cause of that repentance is assigned to the sinner's volition?

Can you provide one where the sinner does not already live in a God-initiated covenant?



Just one will do but if you know of more then please post three.

 

[fastfredy0]

As an ontological question, there is no consensual answer to this among philosophers. In practice, however, I know I have my freewill. I can sense it.

Ah, knowledge by sensation.

LOL ... .thx Josheb for my morning chuckle. I thought the same thing but couldn't bother to say so.
I like your other responses. You're more patient and eloquent than I.

 

[David1701]

5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will/ As an ontological question, there is no consensual answer to this among philosophers. In practice, however, I know I have my freewill. I can sense it. OT mentions it in Exodus 35:

How can you "know" that you have "freewill", if you can't even define what it is?

Define what you mean by "freewill", then we can discuss whether or not the Bible teaches it.

"29 All the Israelite men and women who were willing brought to the LORD freewill offerings for all the work the LORD through Moses had commanded them to do."

This verse is not describing the condition of fallen man's will; rather, it is describing a kind of offering - one that is voluntary (i.e. not obligatory; and that is the only sense in which man's will is free, in this context: free from legal and/or moral obligation).

The Bible assumes the existence of freewill. 1 Corinthians 7 talks about freedom and will:

"37 But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin—this man also does the right thing."

This is also not about any condition of fallen man's will, but about a father not being under legal or moral obligation regarding his virgin daughter (the translation you have chosen gives the wrong sense).

1 Cor. 7:37 (NASB 1995) But he who stands firm in his heart, [a]being under no constraint, but has authority over his own will, and has decided this in his own heart, to keep his own virgin daughter, he will do well.

[a] 1 Corinthians 7:37 Lit having no necessity
1 Corinthians 7:37 Lit pertaining to

A similar concept is expressed in (BSB) Philemon 1:

"14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness will not be out of compulsion, but by your own free will."

This is, again, a contrast between external compulsion, or lack thereof; it is nothing to do with any inherent condition of fallen man's will.

On the other hand, Paul talks of God's influencing our will in Philippians 2:

"13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose."

Not only have you previously used verses out of context, to try to show that man's will has inherent freedom, when the verses were not about that; but, you have now reduced God's work in us to will and to do of his good pleasure, to mere "influence" (rather than effectual working). You are displaying a clear bias towards man-centredness, which is a very bad sign.

Ephesians 1:

"5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will/"

Our free will is a faculty/organ in our brain that makes choices when presented with alternatives. It is up to us to choose. The term freewill, however, is a bit misleading as if it is totally free from all external factors and influences. Alternatively, instead of "freewill", one can speak of "sovereign will" or "independent volition". I have my volitional faculty. That's what I call my freewill.

What you are describing, somewhat strangely (and not very closely related to Eph. 1:5, except that that mentions God's will), is our will, not "freewill". There is obviously a distinction to be made between will and freewill, since the "free" part is a qualifier that needs to be defined.

What is the will free from; and, what is it free to? What does the Bible say? (This is a rhetorical question, but I want to see if you know.)

Edit: sorry about the formatting errors (e.g. bold type that was not bold when I typed it), but my attempts to edit them are not saving and they're not how I originally typed them.

 

[CrowCross]

Yes, we can have free-will and choose to wear a red shirt or a blue shirt.

The question gets bigger....do we have the free-will to choose or reject Jesus concerning salvation?

If the answer is "yes" we have free-will to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior....why does one choose to accept rather than deny Jesus?

Is our decision based upon life's happenstance?

 

[Josheb]

LOL ... .thx Josheb for my morning chuckle. I thought the same thing but couldn't bother to say so.
I like your other responses. You're more patient and eloquent than I.

LOL! LOL! LOL!

You're welcome, and thank you for the kind words, but I know of a few who disagree vigorously and find me much the opposite.

 

[brightfame52]

Mans freewill in matters spiritual is a lie, since we by nature are slaves to sin or servants to sin Jn 8:34

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Ecc 7:20

For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Now who can freewill himself out from this indictment ?