One of the pillars of dispensationalism was that “the Bible does not makes sense; you need our system to make sense of it.”
This is bearing false witness. You told me that this was a quote from Darby or Scofield. I looked it up, and not only is it not a quote from anyone in dispensationalism, it comes from outside.
Their answer was what Ryrie called 2 People, 2 Programs, and they would be ever twain. This drives the parenthesis belief, the millennium as a resumed Israel promise, and even the idea that there is an atonement for Israel yet to occur, “twain” from the Gospel (never mind Hebrews).
Why do you keep shifting terminology. You argued with me that by 2 programs it must mean 2 ways of salvation, one for the Jews and one for the Gentiles. As such, no, there is no 2 programs. Now, if you want to define 2 programs as being part and parce of the SINGLE plan of redemption/salvation, now your homework is to explain how this is not possible.
There are two people. Jews and Gentiles. However, this distinction is not proper, because in the New Testament we are introduced to the CHURCH. The issue we have isn't a replacement theology that says that all the promises for the Jews in Israel now belong to the Gentiles, but to the church. There are two peoples, the Jews and the Gentiles, and two groups, Israel and the church. These must be defined before any statement can be made for or against.
You have to go back to the beginning. History is progressive in the Bible. Covenant theologians use covenants, dispensationlists, dispensation. Seven of either. (That's about where I blacked out in class and got a good nap). If we use programs (I still would rather use parts, because it better highlights that it is a
part of the
plan. It is not the plan, but a part of it. Israel and the Gentiles are two distinct peoples. Two tracts, as Paul even discusses it in Romans. Right down to saying Israel/Jews are the natural branches of the cultured vine, while Gentiles are foreign branches from a wild vine. Paul never changes these labels. Jews are always the natural branches, Gentiles are always foreign. In the end it doesn't matter, because the vine is hybrid, so both are a part of the vine and both get sustenance from the vine.
Now with the groups we have the church, made up of elect Gentiles and elect Jews who are believers, saved by grace. Then you have Israel (still) made up of both non-believing Jews who are not elect, and elect Jews who have not yet come to salvation, also known as the remnant. Those who have not utterly rejected God and gone after false gods and idols. Saul was one until Jesus met him on the road to Damascus. He had not turned on or rejected God, however, he did not recognize Jesus for who Jesus was.
The church, and the Nation of Israel are separate all the way until the consummation where all is made one. The remnant remains in Israel because, when Israel rejected Jesus God put the nation of Israel under partial blindness/hardening until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in. Right here, with this idea, Paul retains the distinction between the church and the nation of Israel. It is to the nation of Israel that the promises were made in the Old Testament. However, at this time, God has not divided the nation into thirds, with 2/3rds consigned to death, and the 1/3rd to be purged, purified and made holy.
The vine, as I consider it, is more then just saying, this is the nation of Israel. It is the chosen people of God. Until they rejected Christ in unbelief, they were still considered the chosen people of God. When they rejected in unbelief, those branches were cut off the vine, and one could say elect and non-elect alike, since Paul does speak of natural branches being reattached to the vine. This image of the vine shows the change from Israel the people of God, where Gentiles were just out of luck, to an image of the church, where the branches from the wild vine join the natural branches of the cultured vine to produce a hybrid vine.
The church and Israel remain distinct. The promises to Israel (eschatology) in the Old Testament remain. They will be fulfilled, however, they are not meant for the non-believing Israel that will be the 2/3rds consigned to death. The promises in the Old Testament are for the Jewish spiritual descendants of Abraham called through Isaac. The elect of Israel, the remnant. It is they who Gabriel speaks of in Daniel 12 in the 70 weeks decree from God for "your people" and "your holy city". They are the ones who will reap what comes at the end of the 70 weeks, which is an end of the transgression, an end of sins, everlasting righteousness, the sealing up of visions, and the anointing of the holy place. The elect of Israel who remain when God brings the consummation of His creation will see all of this. At this time, in keeping with Acts 1, Jesus will return the kingdom to Israel prior to the complete end with the final judgment of mankind. At that time, death and hades are thrown into the lake of fire where all non-believers go, and Jesus will return the Kingdom to the Father that He might be all in all. (I Corinthians 15 if I recall...)
"24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."
