Irresistible Grace in Sanctification?

[prism]

"What have you that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?" (1 Corinthians 4:7).

." Again, "Hear the right, O Lord;" "Thou hast proved mine heart; thou hast visited me in the night; thou hast tried me, and shalt find nothing." Again "The Lord regarded me according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands has he recompensed me. For I have kept the ways of the Lord, and have not wickedly departed from my God.” etc.

I found this also interesting in regard to rewards...

Luke 17:7-10 NKJV
And which of you, having a servant plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, 'Come at once and sit down to eat'? [8] But will he not rather say to him, 'Prepare something for my supper, and gird yourself and serve me till I have eaten and drunk, and afterward you will eat and drink'? [9] Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not. [10] So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, 'We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.'"

 

[Marilyn C]

Okay, so would you say, 'our turning our compass to the Lord' is the result of His irresistible Grace?

Yes. We can only `obey` what we know of what God tells us. And this `turning` is constant till glory. So many distractions and influences to overcome, and that is only by repenting and again relying on the Lord.

 

[Marilyn C]

I disagree.

Normally, I would ask you to explain how and why you think God's sorrow is incompatible with His choice not to save more, but neither God's sorrow nor His choice are specifically the topic of this discussion. If you like we can take this up briefly if you PM me, or if you start a new thread and @Josheb me in it I'll reply there in whatever detail is warranted and without the expectation for either of us to be brief.

Thank you for the offer, but not at the moment.

 

[Marilyn C]

I really do not know what the rewards are. Or, whether they are in this life or the next.

What do you believe they are?

Here are my thoughts.

What are the Rewards for the Body of Christ.

When the Body of Christ enters the third heaven we are taken to Christ`s own throne. Here, each one of us will be appraised by the Lord Jesus Christ as to how we cooperated with His Holy Spirit. This event is called the Bema seat of Christ.


Bema Seat.

`Therefore we make it our aim,...to be well pleasing to Him, (Christ). For we all (Body of Christ) must appear before the judgment (bema) seat of Christ.` (2 Cor. 5: 9 & 10)

This is not a judicial bench to dispense condemnation, but rather like the official tribunal in the Greek games where successful competitors assembled to receive their just reward.

From Greek, `bema` meaning a tribunal seat.


Motives of the Heart.

Paul writes clearly to the Corinthian believers regarding this special event. It is a time where the motives of our heart will be brought to light. For when the Lord comes He will -

`reveal the counsels (motives) of the hearts; and then each one`s praise will come from God.` (1 Cor. 4: 5)

Rewards or loss will be determined as to what was accomplished in our lives either under the anointing and guidance of the Holy Spirit, or whether the underlying motive was for self - pride.


Building in our Lives.

Paul warned the believers that they needed to be careful as to how they would build in their lives upon the foundation of Christ. (1 Cor. 3: 1 - 17)
`For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.` Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver and precious stones.. (1 Cor. 3: 11 & 12)


Gold - Faith in God. Building our lives with the Holy Spirit, trusting God through all of life`s trials, temptation and difficulties is likened to gold. Gold perishes but our faith is imperishable. (1Peter 1: 6 & 7)

Silver - This is the redeeming work of Christ in our lives. (1 Peter 1: 17 - 21)

Precious Stones - These are all individual and illustrate how we each will have a special luster, being fashioned into a holy priesthood in Christ Jesus. (1 Peter 2: 4 & 5)

 

[Marilyn C]

CROWNS - Authority.

Different crowns, representing authority and responsibility will also be bestowed as additional rewards for specific service and faith.

From Greek, `Stephanos` - Victor`s crowns.


The Crown of Life. (James 1: 12)

`Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been proved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love him.`

There are many trials we face as a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ.


The Crown of Rejoicing. (1 Thess. 2: 19)

`For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Is it not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His coming?

There is great joy in discipling and mentoring others.


The Crown of Glory. (1 Peter 5: 2 - 4)

`Shepherd the flock of God....not....as being lords over those entrusted to you, but examples to the flock; and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away.`

There is a great responsibility to be examples to others.


The Crown of Victory. (1 Cor. 9: 24 - 27)

`Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown.`

There is great freedom in being guided by the Holy Spirit and not self. That is the way to `run` the race of life.


The Crown of Righteousness. (2 Tim. 4: 8)

`Finally there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge will give me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved His appearing.`

Looking for the Lord coming to His Body, nourishes our everyday life. We are continually receiving His life which then flows out to help and disciple others.

 

[fastfredy0]

I found this also interesting in regard to rewards...

Luke 17:7-10 NKJV

Agreed ... this sort of thing fits in well with "it's better to give than receive" as God only gives and does not receive which fits well with God being the superior being.

 

[Carbon]

We are sanctified by obedience in the Holy Spirit, which leads to righteousness leading to holiness (Ro 6:16, 19, 22).

We are sanctified by Christ and the work he has done. Not by any obedience on our part.

 

[Carbon]

The Spirit give us to will and to obey (Php 2;13), which sanctifies.

The Spirit gives us eternal life (Jn 3:3-8), which believes.

These are indeed awesome verses.

It is not us moving forward in our strength and desires. It's God's work in us that sanctifies us, therefore we move forward. Because of His sanctifying work in us, we desire to and we work to obey because of God's work. This is for His good pleasure.

 

[Eleanor]

We are sanctified by Christ and the work he has done. Not by any obedience on our part.

What do you see Ro 6:16, 19, 22 as meaning?

With the understanding that God gives us both to will and to do (Php 2:13).

 

[Eleanor]

These are indeed awesome verses.

It is not us moving forward in our strength and desires. It's God's work in us that sanctifies us, therefore we move forward. Because of His sanctifying work in us, we desire to and we work to obey because of God's work. This is for His good pleasure.

Does God work sanctification in us through that moving forward by him?

 

[Carbon]

First let's define "Irresistible Grace" (IG), because that term simply means God accomplishes what He sets out to accomplish with His grace. IG does not mean humans cannot resist God. IG is not "puppet theology."

So, yes, God accomplishes all the sanctification He intends.

It simply means grace which is irresistable. For by grace are ye saved Eph 2
It does not say, it's possible, or you will be saved against your will.


As far as humans being able or unable to resist God has nothing to do with it.
As far as irresistible grace is concerned, in the category it is used theologically it cannot be resisted. It's simply, irresistible. And how it works is not against a man's will, nothing puppet about it.

 

[Carbon]

I believe sanctification is all of grace. It's monergistic. Salvation is of the Lord, all of it, which includes sanctification.

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Ez 36:27.

It does not read, and I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk together with me, that you will keep my judgments and do them together with me.

 

[Carbon]

It simply means grace which is irresistable. For by grace are ye saved Eph 2
It does not say, it's possible, or you will be saved against your will.


As far as humans being able or unable to resist God has nothing to do with it.
As far as irresistible grace is concerned, in the category it is used theologically it cannot be resisted. It's simply, irresistible. And how it works is not against a man's will, nothing puppet about it.

@Josheb
I would also put it this way.

Every time we read this verse For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:8.
You can be sure it is irresistible, without a doubt.

 

[Josheb]

And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Ez 36:27.

It does not read, and I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk together with me, that you will keep my judgments and do them together with me.

That's correct.

The comment (and ensuing definition) was intended for the op because the op applies IG specifically to sanctification. It's a great inquiry. I do not believe IG applied to sanctification is a "Wesleyan concept," but I am sure the Wesley's concern with pietism obscured his view and understanding of God's grace accomplishing what it sets out to accomplish. Wesley was the prototype experientialist in modernity (using the term loosely, of course) and his Arminianism is more volitional than Arminius ever intended or allowed for. As an Arminian, or a volitionalist, Wesley would not have accepted Calvinist IG and if he used the term at all would have done so synergistically. He thought Calvinism undermined human agency and the importance (important in his mind) of the Christian actively working out his salvation with fear and trembling (something Wesley reportedly did a lot of). According to Stephen Ashby in his contribution to "Four Views on Eternal Security," Arminius was Luther-lite. Were Luther thought the loss was possible but unlikely, Arminius allowed for a slightly greater possibility. Reading Wesley one gets the idea a person is always in jeopardy of losing his salvation because he's not sanctifying himself sufficiently. Sanctification is much more weighted to the hands or work of the saint than God. To Wesley the dissent over IG is a straw man. It becomes a question of whether or not grace can be resisted and in Calvinism the saint has nothing to do with IG. After TD, the TULIP model is entirely God-centric. There's a huge difference between...

God's grace accomplishes His purpose in salvation
and
The Human can resist God's grace or not​

The second is not really a redefining of IG. It's not IG at all. It's a gross misrepresentation of IG.

We speak of irresistible Grace in calling, justification and glorification, what about in (actual) sanctification? Or is that a Wesleyan concept?

We Calvinists speak of Irresistible Grace in calling, justification, and glorification, and, yes, we Calvinists could speak of it in sanctification but the Wesleyan cannot and does not. Why? IG is not a Wesleyan concept.

So when I say, "Let's define the term," I'm indirectly precluding Wesleyanism from having anything to say about IG and sanctification. Now, if we took off the "I" and just asked, "Is God's grace instrumental in the saint's sanctification then I think we can all answer in the affirmative but monergists and synergists are going to answer in different ways. The Cal is going to see post conversion and/or post-regeneration sanctification as somewhat synergistic but much less so than the Wesleyan and any contribution by the saint has its impetus entirely in the work of the Spirit. Your survey of Reformed thinkers proves this.

 

[prism]

IG is not a Wesleyan concept.

and the Remonstrance? I guess Arminius was long before Wesley, nevertheless, I tend to clump the two together.

 

[Josheb]

and the Remonstrance? I guess Arminius was long before Wesley,

Yes, it was, and a lot change in between.

nevertheless, I tend to clump the two together.

Understandable. Wesley was Arminian. He wasn't Traditionalist/Provisionist or Pelagian. Although he falls into the category of Arminian soteriology, his views were sufficiently different that he has his own sub-category within the Arminian point of view. Many Wesleyans think of themselves as Arminian and it's not until the discussions get going the certain points made by the Wesleyan get disputed by both Calvinists and Arminians .


If you haven't already done so, give that book I mentioned, "Four Views on Eternal Security," a read. The four views asserted and critiqued are the Classical Calvinist, Moderate Calvinist, Reformed Arminian, and Wesleyan Arminian. Of course, that's about the "P" in TULIP but there's also a Counterpoint Series book, "Five Views on Sanctification," and "Christian Spirituality: Five Views on Sanctification." Both contain Reformed and Wesleyan viewpoints. One of the surprising things you'll find is how differently the various views define sanctification.


As far as the op goes, it is my pov that, yes, there is irresistible grace in sanctification. Sanctification is the process by which God cleans up and purifies a person prior to his salvation, during his salvation, and through resurrection after he has physically died. The only reason it happens at all is due to God's grace and since God's grace always accomplishes whatever it is He purposes for that grace to do; it is correct to say Irresistible grace exists in sanctification. Wesley thought grace was needed and necessary, but he also believed piety was an aspect of sanctification (and vice versa) was a struggle dependent on the saint's ability to sense God's inward work, and the saint's effort is viewed much more salient than is common in Reformed thought.

 

[Carbon]

As far as the op goes, it is my pov that, yes, there is irresistible grace in sanctification. Sanctification is the process by which God cleans up and purifies a person prior to his salvation,

Prior to his salvation?
Scripture, please.

Scripture teaches Christ is our sanctification, so it does not start for us until we are in Christ.

 

[Josheb]

Prior to his salvation?
Scripture, please.

Our salvation began long before any of us ever drew out first breath.



Ephesians 1:3-6
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons and daughters through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, with which He favored us in the Beloved.

.

Scripture teaches Christ is our sanctification, so it does not start for us until we are in Christ.

Nice move of the goalposts. I did not say our sanctification began prior to our being in Christ. I said is Irresistible Grace - grace accomplishing what God purposes it to accomplish - at work in sanctification prior to our salvation.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.


All of it happens by God's grace, and God's grace accomplishes what God purposed from eternity for it to accomplish. "Irresistible Grace" is sometimes called "Effectual Grace" because it is grace God effectually applies to those he has chosen, or determined, to save. That is, by definition, an example of IG prior to salvation. He applies his grace effectively to those He has chosen to save, not just those He has already saved. The two are not mutually exclusive conditions.

"God from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin; nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established."​

But, apparently, that did not include the sanctification of those He has chosen to save.

"By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death."​

And that, apparently, did not include the sanctification of those He chose to save.

"As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so hath He, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the means thereunto. Wherefore they who are elected being fallen in Adam are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ by His Spirit working in due season; are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by His power through faith unto salvation. Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only."​

"Foreordained all the means thereunto"? and among those means is the elect being sanctified?

"It pleased God, in His eternal purpose, to choose and ordain the Lord Jesus, His only-begotten Son, to be the mediator between God and men, the prophet, priest, and king; the head and Savior of the church, the heir of all things, and judge of the world; unto whom He did, from all eternity, give a people to be His seed, and to be by Him in time redeemed, called, justified, sanctified, and glorified."​

God gave a people to His chosen mediator to be sanctified..... but God's grace was not accomplishing that task between eternity and the day of one's salvation?

Chapter 14 of the WCF explains how sanctification is accomplished at the time of salvation "

1. They who are effectually called and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christ’s death and resurrection, by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them; the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified, and they more and more quickened and strengthened, in all saving graces, to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.

That does not conflict in any way with the earlier WCF statements asserting God's eternal ordaining.

 

[Eleanor]

@Josheb
I would also put it this way.

Every time we read this verse For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:8.
You can be sure it is irresistible, without a doubt.

We don't resist what is desirable.

God makes it desirable to us.

 

[Carbon]

Carbon said:
@Josheb
I would also put it this way.

Every time we read this verse For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:8.
You can be sure it is irresistible, without a doubt.

We don't resist what is desirable.

God makes it desirable to us.

You misunderstand?

I was just stating a fact.

Saved by grace is irresistible.
Of course, it's desirable. Or it wouldn't be through faith.