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Integrity of the Autographs: Manuscript Evidence and the Tenacity of the Text

John Bauer

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Someone asked me to explain the grounds on which we can know, in substance, what the God-inspired original texts said (also known as autographs), despite them no longer existing (so far as we know). The following was my reply.

The manuscript tradition of the New Testament provides unusually strong grounds for confidence in the integrity of the text. Consider an analogy. Most people have never seen, much less handled, the original Declaration of Independence, yet no serious person doubts that we know what it said. Why? Because it has been copied, preserved, and transmitted broadly in numerous forms. Even if the original were destroyed, its content would remain recoverable through those copies. The same principle applies to the New Testament, but with far greater evidential force.

First, the New Testament enjoys an unparalleled manuscript base: thousands of Greek manuscripts, along with many thousands more in early translations such as Latin, Syriac, and Coptic. These witnesses vary in age and completeness, ranging from small fragments to nearly complete codices, some reaching back close to the apostolic era (a window defined as 50–100 CE). This multiplicity allows comparison across time, geography, and textual families, enabling reconstruction of the original text with a high degree of confidence. The closest classical analogue is Homer’s Iliad, yet even here the New Testament far surpasses it both in number of witnesses and chronological proximity to the original.

Second, there is the principle of textual tenacity. Once a reading enters the manuscript tradition, it tends to persist. Variants accumulate rather than replace one another. This works in both directions: if errors persist, so do original readings. The original text is therefore not lost but preserved among the witnesses, allowing comparison and recovery. For example, the phrase καὶ ἐσμεν (“and indeed we are”) in 1 John 3:1 appears in earlier manuscripts but is absent from some later ones due to parablepsis (a common scribal omission caused by similar word endings). The variant is explicable, detectable, and—critically—the original reading remains present in the tradition.

Third, the chronological depth of the evidence must be considered. This concerns how close our witnesses stand to the time of composition and whether any large historical gap exists in which the text could have been substantially altered. The New Testament books were written roughly between 50 and 100 CE, and manuscript evidence appears within a relatively short span thereafter. Even under cautious dating, the textual stream begins near the apostolic period, not centuries later. For example, the P52 manuscript dates to roughly 50 years after the apostle John. By the second and third centuries the evidence expands significantly, showing the text already widely copied and circulating across multiple regions.

This early and broad dissemination makes large-scale editing historically implausible. Early Christian writers—Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and others—quoted the New Testament extensively. Their writings circulated widely and independently across regions. No centralized authority ever controlled all manuscripts. Any systematic alteration would have been exposed when compared with untouched copies elsewhere. The geographic dispersion of the manuscript tradition functions as a safeguard against precisely the kind of corruption often alleged.

Indeed, the patristic citations are so numerous that, even if all manuscripts disappeared, most of the New Testament could be reconstructed from their writings alone. These quotations also demonstrate that the core text known to the early church substantially matches the text we possess today.

The cumulative implication is clear: there is no long “dark age” during which the New Testament text is missing and could have been substantially altered. Instead, we observe a continuous, geographically dispersed chain of transmission extending from near the time of composition onward. Because the text is attested early, widely, and in multiple independent streams, any theory of substantive corruption must compress its alterations into an implausibly narrow window for which no textual evidence exists.

Thus, the issue is not possession of the autographs but recoverability of their content. The manuscript tradition demonstrates preservation rather than loss. Variants exist—as expected in any hand-copied corpus—but they are recognizable, overwhelmingly minor, and analyzable. The original readings remain accessible, and the integrity of the New Testament text rests on a foundation stronger than that of any other ancient document.

Note: It is essential to distinguish inerrancy from transmission. Inerrancy concerns the perfection of the original writings as inspired. Transmission concerns how faithfully those writings were copied. Acknowledging scribal variation does not negate inerrancy; it simply recognizes the historical means by which the text was preserved. The New Testament writers themselves frequently cited the Septuagint even where it diverged slightly from the Hebrew, yet still affirmed that Scripture “cannot be broken.” Minor textual differences were never understood to imply corruption.

Work / AuthorDate WrittenEarliest CopiesApprox. Time GapNumber of Manuscripts
Suetonius (Lives of the Caesars)c. 70–140 CEc. 900–1100 CE~800–1,000 years200+
Tacitus (Annals / Histories)c. 56–120 CEc. 850–1100 CE~750–950 years~30 (incl. fragments)
Caesar (Gallic Wars)c. 100–44 BCEc. 900 CE~950 years~10
Aristotle (Works)c. 384–322 BCEc. 1100 CE~1,400 years~49
Plato (Tetralogies)c. 427–347 BCEc. 895 CE~1,200 years~200
Thucydides (Peloponnesian War)c. 400 BCEc. 900–1000 CE~1,300 years~8
Herodotus (Histories)c. 480–425 BCEc. 900 CE~1,300 years~8
Homer (Iliad)c. 800 BCEc. 400 BCE~400 years~1,700 (Greek)
New Testament (Greek)c. 50–100 CEc. 125–165 CE (P52 fragment)~25–75 years~5,800 (Greek); ~20,000 (others)
 
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Where in the bible does Jesus command his followers, or use words to the same effect as commanding them, to explain the grounds on which we can know, in substance, what the God-inspired original texts said (also known as autographs), despite them no longer existing?
 
Dr. James White and others always say no cardinal doctrine rests upon a disputed reading. But Jesus' resurrection is a cardinal Christian doctrine. Can I be reasonable to adopt two views held by the majority of Christian scholars,
a) Mark was the earliest of the 4 gospels to be published.
b) Mark originally ended at 16:8?

If so, then I can be reasonable to say the earliest gospel never said anybody actually saw the risen Christ, and that's how you show that a cardinal Christian doctrine hangs upon a disputed textual variant. If the earliest gospel had no resurrection appearance narrative, we can reasonably infer that the resurrection narratives of the subsequent gospels of Luke, Matthew and John are nothing more than embellishments...especially if we also adopt another majority Christian scholarly viewpoint: that Matthew and Luke borrowed liberally from Mark, and the reason their resurrection-appearance narratives significantly differ from each other after tracking up to Mark 16:8, is because 16:8 is where their own copies of Mark also ended. The earliest testimony said nothing about anybody seeing a risen Christ, and this is supposed to be insignificant?

This argument doesn't mean those who disagree with the embellishment hypothesis are unreasonable.
It only means it's possible for somebody outside of Christianity to have reasonable basis to view the resurrection narratives of the gospels as embellishments.
 
Dr. James White and others always say no cardinal doctrine rests upon a disputed reading. But Jesus' resurrection is a cardinal Christian doctrine. Can I be reasonable to adopt two views held by the majority of Christian scholars,
a) Mark was the earliest of the 4 gospels to be published.
b) Mark originally ended at 16:8?

If so, then I can be reasonable to say the earliest gospel never said anybody actually saw the risen Christ, and that's how you show that a cardinal Christian doctrine hangs upon a disputed textual variant. If the earliest gospel had no resurrection appearance narrative, we can reasonably infer that the resurrection narratives of the subsequent gospels of Luke, Matthew and John are nothing more than embellishments...especially if we also adopt another majority Christian scholarly viewpoint: that Matthew and Luke borrowed liberally from Mark, and the reason their resurrection-appearance narratives significantly differ from each other after tracking up to Mark 16:8, is because 16:8 is where their own copies of Mark also ended. The earliest testimony said nothing about anybody seeing a risen Christ, and this is supposed to be insignificant?

This argument doesn't mean those who disagree with the embellishment hypothesis are unreasonable.
It only means it's possible for somebody outside of Christianity to have reasonable basis to view the resurrection narratives of the gospels as embellishments.
One cannot establish historically the very basis for why Saul became Paul and staunch defender of the messiah and Faith that he wanted to kill off, nor why All Apostles died for their belief in a risen savior and lord if Jesus had not risen and confirmed to them that He was the very Son of God.
 
One cannot establish historically the very basis for why Saul became Paul and staunch defender of the messiah and Faith that he wanted to kill off, nor why All Apostles died for their belief in a risen savior and lord if Jesus had not risen and confirmed to them that He was the very Son of God.

You would be more accurate if you said "I've never seen anybody provide an explanation, better than Acts 9, Acts 22 and Acts 26, for Saul's conversion to Christ". Perhaps the historical basis you think is missing. exists, and you simply haven't found it? The starting point would be this: Do you believe that if an ancient historical source says x, 21st century people are under any type or degree of obligation to presume x to be true, until somebody can come along to prove x false?

As for "apostles died for their belief", historical evidence merely that some apostle was killed, will not suffice. "killed" does not equal" killed for their faith". You'd have to come up with biblical source predating the 5th century a.d., which specified either

a) An apostle, arrested by some earthly authority, was warned that refusal to recant his faith would mean execution, but the apostle still refused to recant, and was then executed for this.

b) an apostle knew it was virtually certain he would be executed if he kept preaching, but he kept preaching anyway, and was later executed for that preaching.

I've written about 3,000 pages of reasons why the biblical evidence for Jesus' resurrection is sufficiently poor as to justify the person who deems it unworthy of serious consideration. I don't "refute" Jesus' resurrection, I merely show I can be reasonable to deny it or ignore it.
 
Where in the bible does Jesus command his followers, or use words to the same effect as commanding them, to explain the grounds on which we can know, in substance, what the God-inspired original texts said (also known as autographs), despite them no longer existing?
Interesting red herring. Why would Jesus need to speak such a command?
 
Interesting red herring.

Fallacy of argument by assertion.

Why would Jesus need to speak such a command?

He would only need to speak such a command if he thought the contents of the command were critical to facilitating salvation or sanctification. So if Jesus didn't command anything about defending the "integrity of the autographs", it's reasonable, even if not infallible, to infer that he doesn't think defending the integrity of the autographs has any significant relevance to anybody's salvation or sanctification.

In turn, it becomes reasonable for the outsider to say "the more you obsess about a matter Jesus never talked about, the more risk you take of committing the error of the Pharisees, and not dedicating enough of your time to defending the weightier matters, like salvation and sanctification". We think of fools who obsess about trying to figure out the date Jesus will come back, the fundamentalists who falsely think KJV Onlyism is a litmus test for salvation or orthodoxy, the Roman Catholics who freely and happily admit most of what they believe depends upon solely post-canonical traditions, etc.

The reasonableness of my criticism is clear from how unlikely the alternative is. My position is "It is reasonable to assume the reason Jesus didn't mention something is because he didn't think it was important to salvation or sanctification." So the only alternative to that would be "It is not reasonable to assume that Jesus would surely mention something if he thought it important to salvation or sanctification." My position may be wrong, but it certainly falls within the ambit of reasonableness.
 
Fallacy of argument by assertion.
No, it's a red herring because Post 2 is unfounded. It is you who has asked a question based on a fallacy of assertion. You really need to get a handle on your use of "fallacy of argument" by assertion because in every case you've employed that defense so far it been you arguing by assertion.

It also looks dumb when someone tries to dismiss an inquiry and the answers the inquiry.
He would only need to speak such a command if he thought the contents of the command were critical to facilitating salvation or sanctification.
That is incorrect and Jesus thinking the contents of his command critical would not necessitate their explaining the grounds on which what the God-inspired original texts said can be known.
So if Jesus didn't command anything about defending the "integrity of the autographs", it's reasonable, even if not infallible, to infer that he doesn't think defending the integrity of the autographs has any significant relevance to anybody's salvation or sanctification.
Fallacy of argument by assertion. It is not reasonable to infer such a thing without explanation.

Why would he need to command a defense of scripture?
The integrity of the autographs is not of significant relevance to a person's salvation or sanctification. I would venture to say (assuming salvation and actual event) millions of people have gotten saved without ever having read a single sentence of scripture (common literacy is a relatively modern condition.
In turn, it becomes reasonable for the outsider to say "the more you obsess about a matter Jesus never talked about, the more risk you take of committing the error of the Pharisees, and not dedicating enough of your time to defending the weightier matters, like salvation and sanctification". We think of fools who obsess about trying to figure out the date Jesus will come back, the fundamentalists who falsely think KJV Onlyism is a litmus test for salvation or orthodoxy, the Roman Catholics who freely and happily admit most of what they believe depends upon solely post-canonical traditions, etc.
Since the predicate condition for outsider's commentary is unfounded it is not reasonable.
The reasonableness of my criticism is clear....
ROTFLMBO!

Very little of what I have read from you has any reason. That you use the word "reasonable" so presumptively is farcical. If I comment or inquire on the fallacious arguments of assertion the response is hypocritical. And the fallacy continues in multiple threads even after having been brought to your attention. In other words. A fallacious argument was posted. The fallacy was observed. It was met with another fallacious response, which was again corrected and then the first fallacy was employed in multiple places having already been corrected.

If a person posts a factual error by mistake that is a simple mistake, a falsehood. In contrast, someone who knowingly posts falsehoods is is acting with deceit (either deceiving himself or intending to deceive others). You knew better because the error was previously brought to your attention.

From that point on it became incumbent upon you to do two things: 1) examine your own content presuppositionally to insure you were not repeating the same mistake, and 2) explain the arguments so they are always explained assertions and never fallacies of argument by assertion.
My position is "It is reasonable to assume the reason Jesus didn't mention something is because he didn't think it was important to salvation or sanctification."
No one knows all that Jesus did or did not mention. The New Testament is not exhaustive. No one claims it is exhaustive. Jesus may have provided proof to the disciples, but he may also have not required they provide that proof to others. He might have provided them the proof but instructed them not to repeat it. Jesus is, recorded to have discussed the matter of proof but it' not evident in any of this week's threads you're knowledgeable of that content. Furthermore, no proof provided to the original disciples would ever suffice in later generations. People like you would always be able to say, "I do not believe....."

Have you ever read the Bible (in its entirety)? I ask because you do not seem to grasp some of the most basic aspects of either Christianity or scripture. Reading your posts as if a teenager wrote them, someone who believes he's said something intelligent but is being placated by the grown-ups out of kindness.
So the only alternative to that would be "It is not reasonable to assume that Jesus would surely mention something if he thought it important to salvation or sanctification." My position may be wrong, but it certainly falls within the ambit of reasonableness.
Apparently, the possibility of more than two options escapes you often. Several of your arguments are foolishly framed as dichotomies when multiple explanations may exist. The is mistake happens with such repetition only a few explanations are reasonable: Either this is deliberate and you're trolling others, the reasoning is sophomoric (at best) and you do not know you're making an erroneous argument, or irrational argument learned from other sources are being replicated because it is imagined they have merit.

See what I just did there?


Many, if not most, of us Christians were formerly atheists. We did as you now do. I, for one, argued vigorously with Christians, especially Cals. I was filling a few gas cans earlier today and while I was doing so the teenager on the other side of the pump explained to me the handle has a locking mechanism, so I didn't need to constantly clinch the handle. Assuming that young man was about age 18, I've been pumping gas almost four of his lifetimes. There isn't anything he could tell me I don't already know. I asked him why I placed the cans on the curb instead of leaving them in the bed of the truck where I could stand while filling them. He did not know the answer. Thought it was so fuel didn't splash onto the bed. I shared the answer with him, as well as a little history of changes I've seen in gas stations, gas, pumps, etc. and we chatted a few minutes after both our cars (and my cans) were filled. I thanked him for his kindness, the advice, and willingness to help others. I suspect he had, by then, figured his advice was unnecessary without my having to tell him, or potentially embarrass him.

You, apparently, read a lot, or watch a lot of YouTube videos, although I have my doubts because you employ names who make faulty arguments as if they didn't. Mike Licona, for example, invariably asserts a pair of strawmen regarding the Chicago Statement, and that raises the same sort of questions I have about you. He's a PhD, so how could he make those mistakes? Is he ill-informed? Incompetent? Acting willfully with an intent to deceive? Profiteering? Nuts? You, apparently, didn't think critically about the critic's arguments, else you would not attempt to employ them as if they had any veracity.

You might post a fact with which we are not familiar, but you won't ever reason from that fact to anything veracious because you lack the skills in reasoning to do so. Either that, or you're trolling. You make assumptions about Christianity and scripture as if they are factual or true (sometimes they are and sometimes they are not) and then attempt to reason from them but it is like reading a teenager's thoughts. There are many reasons why Jesus may or may not have provided proof and his commanding or providing proof is not a necessity (and you'd know that a priori if you knew anything about Christianity and understood logic better.


A pile of Hebrews saw the Red Sea part, and they walked across the seabed on dry land. They all witnessed the event themselves and could/should all witness to each other regarding its veracity. Why wasn't that knowledge and experience sufficient to secure their belief over time? (It does not matter whether the report is factual, or not. Even if allegorical, the report continues to say their witness was insufficient).

Can you answer that question?
 
No, it's a red herring because Post 2 is unfounded.

It doesn't matter if that is true: you did not supply any "argument", your entire remark was "Interesting red herring". That remark contains no argument, it is solely an assertion. Your immediately following remark "Why would Jesus need to speak such a command?" does not constitute argument supporting your accusation of "Red Herring". My criticism was justified.

He would only need to speak such a command if he thought the contents of the command were critical to facilitating salvation or sanctification.
That is incorrect and Jesus thinking the contents of his command critical would not necessitate their explaining the grounds on which what the God-inspired original texts said can be known.

Sorry, I cannot follow such a convoluted statement.

Why would he need to command a defense of scripture?

That is irrelevant. My thesis is that a person like Jesus can be reasonably construed, even if not infallibly construed, to have only one single reason for not issuing a command to the people he wants as followers: he doesn't judge the contents of the command to have significant relevance to their salvation or sanctification.

The integrity of the autographs is not of significant relevance to a person's salvation or sanctification. I would venture to say (assuming salvation and actual event) millions of people have gotten saved without ever having read a single sentence of scripture (common literacy is a relatively modern condition.

Thank you for giving me another reason to suppose Jesus did not think defense of the integrity of the autographs had any significance to salvation or sanctification.

Since the predicate condition for outsider's commentary is unfounded it is not reasonable.

Now you are just contradicting your prior statement supporting my thesis

ROTFLMBO!

Why would you wish to communicate something that has more association with juvenile delinquency and less association with respectful dialogue? What reaction are you hoping I'll give, if any, to such a thing?

Very little of what I have read from you has any reason. That you use the word "reasonable" so presumptively is farcical. If I comment or inquire on the fallacious arguments of assertion the response is hypocritical. And the fallacy continues in multiple threads even after having been brought to your attention.
In other words. A fallacious argument was posted. The fallacy was observed. It was met with another fallacious response, which was again corrected and then the first fallacy was employed in multiple places having already been corrected.

If a person posts a factual error by mistake that is a simple mistake, a falsehood. In contrast, someone who knowingly posts falsehoods is is acting with deceit (either deceiving himself or intending to deceive others). You knew better because the error was previously brought to your attention.

From that point on it became incumbent upon you to do two things: 1) examine your own content presuppositionally to insure you were not repeating the same mistake, and 2) explain the arguments so they are always explained assertions and never fallacies of argument by assertion.

I see Trinitarians saying very similar veiled insults to other Trinitarians all the time. It usually bears no fruit.

No one knows all that Jesus did or did not mention. The New Testament is not exhaustive. No one claims it is exhaustive. Jesus may have provided proof to the disciples, but he may also have not required they provide that proof to others.

My argument isn't compelling because of some condition that "may" be true?

He might have provided them the proof but instructed them not to repeat it.

And he might have said "don't evangelize atheists, this is a limitation on the Great Commission", but instructed them not to repeat it.

If you believe in classical theism and the divine inspiration of the canonical gospels, you don't have the luxury of supposing Jesus may have said things important to salvation that were somehow left out of the canonical record. You believe the canonical gospels lack everything they lack because God wants them to lack such things. That would mean the reason we cannot find Jesus commanding his followers to defend the integrity of the autographs is either a) he never did, or b) he did, and God didn't want that command to become known to future Christians. Either way, you end up with a concern to defend something, when the concern lacks lacks a canonical foundation. Lack of canonical foundation suggests "morbid interest in controversial questions" that Paul forbade in 1st Timothy 6:4.

Jesus is, recorded to have discussed the matter of proof but it' not evident in any of this week's threads you're knowledgeable of that content.

It's not evident in any of your responses that you understand my arguments. If pompous statements of confident assertion don't bother you, you might ponder that maybe they also don't bother anybody else.

Furthermore, no proof provided to the original disciples would ever suffice in later generations. People like you would always be able to say, "I do not believe....."

Surely you are jesting? I am less combative toward Christianity than Saul was. If a quasi-physical theophany could turn around such a murderous anti-Christian like Saul, it would certainly suffice for people like me who are even less enraged against that religion. God is certainly capable of making people believe whatever he wants them to believe and do whatever he wants them to do (Ezra 1:1), so the fact that I'm not a Christian must mean God doesn't want me to be a Christian presently. If God wants me to be a Christian, He will simply make it happen.

Have you ever read the Bible (in its entirety)? I ask because you do not seem to grasp some of the most basic aspects of either Christianity or scripture.

What you call my biblical ignorance, I call your misunderstanding of my argument. Please skip the veiled "you are stupid" stuff and just obey the rules.

Reading your posts as if a teenager wrote them, someone who believes he's said something intelligent but is being placated by the grown-ups out of kindness.

Stop violating the rules with your veiled insults. The rest of your post does the same, and also raises numerous other issues that I will not engage, so I delete it.

A pile of Hebrews saw the Red Sea part, and they walked across the seabed on dry land. They all witnessed the event themselves and could/should all witness to each other regarding its veracity. Why wasn't that knowledge and experience sufficient to secure their belief over time? (It does not matter whether the report is factual, or not. Even if allegorical, the report continues to say their witness was insufficient).

Can you answer that question?

No. I'm still learning how to spell "bible".
 
My criticism was justified.
No, they are not. Most of them are fallacious arguments of assertion and when asked to justify those assertions digression, ad hominem, red herring and non sequitur ensue.
Sorry, I cannot follow such a convoluted statement.
It's not convoluted and the fact it's not understood is part of the problem to be solved. Your argument was predicated on an assumption that was unfounded and a limited dichotomy that may not exist because there may be many reasons (not just two alternatives) why Jesus did or did not command what you imagined is necessary.
That is irrelevant.
It is not relevant. It is a red herring.
My thesis is that a person like Jesus can be reasonably construed, even if not infallibly construed, to have only one single reason for not issuing a command to the people he wants as followers: he doesn't judge the contents of the command to have significant relevance to their salvation or sanctification.
None of that is reasonable. There are, in fact, many flaws in that argument, beginning with the fact you do not know he did not make such a command or provide the proof.
Thank you for giving me another reason to suppose Jesus did not think defense of the integrity of the autographs had any significance to salvation or sanctification.
Non sequitur
Now you are just contradicting your prior statement supporting my thesis.
Nope. Simply providing a diverse way of getting you to think about your won content.
Why would you wish to communicate something that has more association with juvenile delinquency and less association with respectful dialogue?
LOL because your posts are comparable to that of a juvenile.
What reaction are you hoping I'll give, if any, to such a thing?
Self-examination and positive change on your part.
I see Trinitarians saying very similar veiled insults to other Trinitarians all the time. It usually bears no fruit.
Red herring. This op is about the veracity of the autographs, not the doctrine of the Trinity. Learn how to focus, stay on one topic, and post relevantly to the op-specified topic. If you wish to discuss the Trinity, then start your own thread and post that op in the Trin board. Don't change topics and expect others to think you're being rational. Don't try to hijack other's threads and expect others to think you're respectful. Don't obfuscate and expect others to think you're sincere.
My argument isn't compelling because of some condition that "may" be true?
Given the fact your argument is itself a "may" then, yes, one may is as good as another, especially since you couch everything you post in subjectivism. It's inconsistent to think your subjectivism is acceptable and others visiting the same metrics upon you is not.
And he might have said "don't evangelize atheists, this is a limitation on the Great Commission", but instructed them not to repeat it.
Is that a "may"?
If you believe in....
It will probably be worth your effort to discover what we believe rather than assume it or place us into preconceived biased positions garnered from second- and third-hand sources.
If you believe in classical theism and the divine inspiration of the canonical gospels,
The canon is not inspired. The contents considered canon is inspired in its original form. Part of the problem with your arguments is the conflation of "scripture" with "the Bible," and "the canon." Fallacies of false equivalence are being argued every time you conflate these terms.
....you don't have the luxury of supposing Jesus may have said things important to salvation that were somehow left out of the canonical record.
And now you're conflating proof with salvation.

Post #2 asks a fairly (though convoluted) question. Where in the bible does Jesus command his followers to explain the grounds on which we can know what the God-inspired?

That question presuppositionally assumes the necessity of an explanation. That question presuppositionally assumes proof ("grounds on which we can know") is necessary. The question assumes the necessity of proof when salvation is explicitly stated to be a condition that exists by grace through faith. The question assumes proof was either not provided or provided and therefore recorded.

I can continue in the same vein and list more assumptions inherent in the question, but the point is you've asserted a fallacy of assertion in the form of an inquiry and are now unwilling or unable to explain and justify the inquiry AND the inquiry may be baseless.
You believe the canonical gospels lack everything they lack because God wants them to lack such things.
Never said any such thing and I will ask you to please refrain from assuming you know anything about anyone else's views and using your imagined min-reading faculties as the basis for your arguments. What I did say is 1) you haven't proven the question you asked is veracious and 2) the gospels do not contain a record of everything Jesus said, 3) proof is dubious at best because scripture records multiple episodes when proof was provided but prove not to be deterministic and 4) no proof presented would change your mine so why ask questions you and everyone here knows you're not going to accept?

You indirectly ask for proof disingenuously. No one is fooled by that request, except, possibly, you. You, therefore, should take a look at why it is you ask those kinds of questions. They are definitely not for our benefit and if the benefit to you is to maintain an already existing position, then don't waste the time, effort, or cyberspace.
That would mean the reason we cannot find Jesus commanding his followers to defend the integrity of the autographs is either a) he never did, or b) he did, and God didn't want that command to become known to future Christians.
Or God and Jesus knew the proof provided would not matter.
Either way...
You "either way" is misguided. The beliefs upon which it was predicated are lacking in understanding..... and now that the limitation has been observed twice for you, you're still holding on to the bias.
It's not evident in any of your responses that you understand my arguments.
Then clarify them.
If pompous statement
Appeal to ridicule noted.
Surely you are jesting?
Non sequitur
What you call my biblical ignorance, I call your misunderstanding of my argument.
LOL. Your ignorance of the Bible is demonstrable. You, on the other hand, have no way of knowing, much less proving, what I do or do not understand, and that avenue of comment is digressive. They only person for whom you can speak is you and, so far, you're doing a very poor job. Post 2 assumes facts not in evidence and you've refused to justify any of it even though some of the problems in the inquiry have been noted and the opportunity to address or correct those problems as availed itself.
Please skip the veiled "you are stupid" stuff and just obey the rules.
Okay.

You, personally, may be brilliant, but the inquiries, comments, and arguments posted over the past week have been seriously flawed in many ways AND there's no observable effort to consider that possibility or correct the mistakes.

Where in the bible does Jesus command his followers, or use words to the same effect as commanding them, to explain the grounds on which we can know, in substance, what the God-inspired original texts said (also known as autographs), despite them no longer existing?
  • Please prove of relevance of this inquiry to the op.
  • Please prove the inquiry is veracious.
  • Please prove the gospels provide a record of everything Jesus said.
  • Please prove proof is necessary.
  • Please prove proof alone is determinatively sufficient and efficient.
  • Please prove the answer to the inquiry is limited to one of only two possibilities.
  • Please prove how the topic of salvation is germane to this op.
  • Please prove the inquiry is valid and germane.

When realizing that's not possible then examine why the inquiry was thought rational to begin with. Post that content.
 
@Greg, I deleted your post because it violated many rules. We do not wish to boot you out without giving your views a hearing, and without exposing you to a few things you may not have realized, concerning the ways of the God we love. Please continue to post, but in a way that does not violate the rules.

Here you spoke to the person criticizing the person, you spoke without respect, you spoke off topic, you spoke as though it is your role to reprimand concerning to the rules, you spoke with criticism for the judgement of moderators, and lastly, you posted continuing response to a member who had alleged logical fallacy against you, without first addressing that allegation, unto resolution.

On this thread, please answer the allegations of logical fallacy, before continuing to post to your opponent. Again, if you have a complaint about a rules violation, your recourse is to report it—not to deal with it within the thread.
 
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You would be more accurate if you said "I've never seen anybody provide an explanation, better than Acts 9, Acts 22 and Acts 26, for Saul's conversion to Christ". Perhaps the historical basis you think is missing. exists, and you simply haven't found it? The starting point would be this: Do you believe that if an ancient historical source says x, 21st century people are under any type or degree of obligation to presume x to be true, until somebody can come along to prove x false?

As for "apostles died for their belief", historical evidence merely that some apostle was killed, will not suffice. "killed" does not equal" killed for their faith". You'd have to come up with biblical source predating the 5th century a.d., which specified either

a) An apostle, arrested by some earthly authority, was warned that refusal to recant his faith would mean execution, but the apostle still refused to recant, and was then executed for this.

b) an apostle knew it was virtually certain he would be executed if he kept preaching, but he kept preaching anyway, and was later executed for that preaching.

I've written about 3,000 pages of reasons why the biblical evidence for Jesus' resurrection is sufficiently poor as to justify the person who deems it unworthy of serious consideration. I don't "refute" Jesus' resurrection, I merely show I can be reasonable to deny it or ignore it.
Where then was his body, why did paul change to being greatest defender of their new faith, why did all apostles die for their faith, and why was the NT written to support jesus as a divine messiah unless he affirmed that by the resurrection
 
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