Inerrancy and Autographs

[TB2]

We are correct in our understanding that those 2% of variants do not affect the gospel message of salvation, so that's at least something

 

[NetChaplain]

We are correct in our understanding that those 2% of variants do not affect the gospel message of salvation, so that's at least something

True, but hose who try to read and study enough (which most won't do) will not get the entire Word, and we need it all (Mat 4:4). We don't have to be concerned about our salvation because it's permanent; but most will not grow much in the maturity of Christ (Eph 4:15) without studying the plenary translations! This is only half the problem, and the other serious problem concerns the multitudinous of passage changes, which read too indifferent from the original meanings (due to interpolations and transpositions).

It's my belief that the majority of the Body of Christ will still be "babes" at His final advent! But He expects and knows this.

 

[TB2]

True, but hose who try to read and study enough (which most won't do) will not get the entire Word, and we need it all (Mat 4:4). We don't have to be concerned about our salvation because it's permanent; but most will not grow much in the maturity of Christ (Eph 4:15) without studying the plenary translations! This is only half the problem, and the other serious problem concerns the multitudinous of passage changes, which read too indifferent from the original meanings (due to interpolations and transpositions).

It's my belief that the majority of the Body of Christ will still be "babes" at His final advent! But He expects and knows this.

I hear what you're saying, but does this not seem to emphasize head knowledge over 'heart' transformation and the Spirit-filled life as the measure of spiritual (literally 'of the Spirit') growth.

We are truly and certainly blessed to have the Bible, but (and I say this very reverently) it is not an essential for spiritual growth, because such was obtained during the first century hundreds of years before we had the completed Bible (and seemingly to a greater degree than most believers experience today).

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

I hear what you're saying, but does this not seem to emphasize head knowledge over 'heart' transformation and the Spirit-filled life as the measure of spiritual (literally 'of the Spirit') growth.

We are truly and certainly blessed to have the Bible, but (and I say this very reverently) it is not an essential for spiritual growth, because such was obtained during the first century hundreds of years before we had the completed Bible (and seemingly to a greater degree than most believers experience today).

I don't really know what you mean by "the spirit filled life" apart from the Bible. Do you mean meditation practice? What exactly do you mean?

 

[NetChaplain]

I hear what you're saying, but does this not seem to emphasize head knowledge over 'heart' transformation and the Spirit-filled life as the measure of spiritual (literally 'of the Spirit') growth.

We are truly and certainly blessed to have the Bible, but (and I say this very reverently) it is not an essential for spiritual growth, because such was obtained during the first century hundreds of years before we had the completed Bible (and seemingly to a greater degree than most believers experience today).

Not to challenge you in any way, but there can be no spiritual growth beyond what the Word teaches. It's the sole source of spiritual growth, and the only tangible thing that we have of God.

 

[TB2]

Not to challenge you in any way, but there can be no spiritual growth beyond what the Word teaches. It's the sole source of spiritual growth, and the only tangible thing that we have of God.

How did the first century church grow spiritually before we had the completed Bible?

 

[NetChaplain]

How did the first century church grow spiritually before we had the completed Bible?

There was always Scripture to grow from (OT), and the more Scripture that came, the more growth there could be. Those blessed with the NT have well more Scripture to grow on than the OT Saints, because in the NT God reveals His whole desires and mind!

 

[TB2]

There was always Scripture to grow from (OT), and the more Scripture that came, the more growth there could be. Those blessed with the NT have well more Scripture to grow on than the OT Saints, because in the NT God reveals His whole desires and mind!

Scripture is important but only to the degree it moves us beyond mere reading and study of the words to the actual Person. In our literate focused society we forget how illiterate and non-bookish most people were

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Scripture is important but only to the degree it moves us beyond mere reading and study of the words to the actual Person. In our literate focused society we forget how illiterate and non-bookish most people were

That's not quite true. A lot of the ancient peoples would hear the scriptures and memorise them.

Also, we have the Bible because it protects us from spiritual dangers. Again, I will ask you - how do you lead a spirit filled life independently of the Bible?

 

[TB2]

That's not quite true. A lot of the ancient peoples would hear the scriptures and memorise them.

Also, we have the Bible because it protects us from spiritual dangers. Again, I will ask you - how do you lead a spirit filled life independently of the Bible?

Sacred Scripture is obviously very important. My point is we rarely reflect on the fact that that there was no Bible like we have now back in the first century. And most of the time when the NT speaks of "The Word/Word of God" it is usually I'm reference to the gospel message that was preached (about 80 or so times in the NT we see the gospel given this designation while Scripture is typically referred to a scripture or the writings or the law, law and prophets, etc.).

We also see direct activity and work of the Holy Spirit directly in the first century in an empowering and transformative way. For Paul the Christian life was all about life in the Spirit in a real, tangible way.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Sacred Scripture is obviously very important. My point is we rarely reflect on the fact that that there was no Bible like we have now back in the first century. And most of the time when the NT speaks of "The Word/Word of God" it is usually I'm reference to the gospel message that was preached (about 80 or so times in the NT we see the gospel given this designation while Scripture is typically referred to a scripture or the writings or the law, law and prophets, etc.).

We also see direct activity and work of the Holy Spirit directly in the first century in an empowering and transformative way. For Paul the Christian life was all about life in the Spirit in a real, tangible way.

Of course the first Christians did not have the Bible as we know it today, but they had the entire Old Testament and Paul told Timothy to use it to grow in the spirit and that it was spirit filled with God's breath, inspiration etc. But I think you missed my point. Obviously I said that these first Christians would have heard the Bible being spoken orally and they memorised it, so the need for a KJV modern up to date handy published printed book would be absurd!

Again, I want to ask, how are you spirit-filled without the words of God or Word of God (there is no difference)? Do you practice a form of meditation? How do you distinguish between any possible spiritual influences as to whether they are from God or not?

Can you kindly answer my direct questions, which I have asked for the third time now. Thank you.

 

[EarlyActs]

There was a more formed teaching than you are allowing for. All you need to do is inventory the first quotes of the OT in early Acts. Jesus spent about 300 hours explaining them. Lots of ground is covered, called 'the apostles' teaching.' The teaching was in-person, and I rely much more on the basis of that than on lists of letters 4 centuries later. My book is THE ENTHRONED KING.

We could also compare that early Acts inventory to Paul's most-quoted and find a high resemblance.

When the enthroned King validates the global flood of Genesis, and the apostles, and even the genetics (Acts 17 is about Noah, not Adam), and says 'honor the Son, lest you be shattered,' we ought to listen. Because the next line is that this world will be taken down by fire. If the global flood of Genesis was a slur of speech, then so is salvation and so is the final judgement.

 

[TB2]

Of course the first Christians did not have the Bible as we know it today, but they had the entire Old Testament and Paul told Timothy to use it to grow in the spirit and that it was spirit filled with God's breath, inspiration etc. But I think you missed my point. Obviously I said that these first Christians would have heard the Bible being spoken orally and they memorised it, so the need for a KJV modern up to date handy published printed book would be absurd!

Again, I want to ask, how are you spirit-filled without the words of God or Word of God (there is no difference)? Do you practice a form of meditation? How do you distinguish between any possible spiritual influences as to whether they are from God or not?

Can you kindly answer my direct questions, which I have asked for the third time now. Thank you.

I did answer. How are you Spirit-filled? By the Holy Spirit, of course. And the gospel message = "The Word/Word of God"

 

[EarlyActs]

The key point of my 3 rational supports is the degree of rationality. Each topic (inspiration of text, the Pentecost languages event, the prediction of destruction) is often treated in the lowest of rationality, which is why there is so much wasted effort and division ('airese' Gal 5).

The 3 I give are the most rational that I can find; perhaps more rational will be found. But on the current level, I only find human thinking, or the exaltation of direct human experience over everything, or entrapments about future predictions in the way and unable to see the rational.

 

[ppierac]

We are correct in our understanding that those 2% of variants do not affect the gospel message of salvation, so that's at least something

Here is the problem... There is only one Gospel about the Coming Kingdom... Where Jesus is KING of all here on Earth.... for 1000 years. How you put the Word salvation into this gospel is what is different! Thus why we have thousands of Christian denominations.... that do not agree... and many times hate each other.... Thus not the Gospel of Jesus!

Paul