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I chose God..Or God chose me...

Do you really expect to "get anywhere" with the non-Calvinist?

Most of us who are now Calvinist were previously Arminian. We were raised, converted, or taught under Arminian leadership and believed what we were taught. As we aged and matured, we gradually the lessons of others and began studying scripture and theology for ourselves, incuding the doctrines of salvation. We learned not to proof-text scripture, and we noticed how many of our preachers and teachers do it on a daily basis. In studying scripture, not only was sound exegesis learned, but we also learned it's not hard to learn. It opens up the word of God to illuminate His revelation in ways not possible with casual reading. We not only learned that Arminianism was not the only doctrine of salvation held in the Church, it was not the oldest, the, most historical, or the only view considered orthodox. We learned the debate between Calvin and Arminius preceded them and it had taken various forms for centuries and it was not specifically a Protestant concern. We learned the Arminian position can be obtained only reading scripture inferentially and only by starting with certain humanistic assumption. Much to our reluctance, perhaps even chagrin, we learned there are a plethora of texts in scripture that bluntly assign salvific causality to God and God alone prior to conversion. I am not sure anyone wants to be Calvinist in the beginning. It confronts our sensibilities and forces us to ask, "Do I trust my own perceptions, or do I trust the plain reading of God's word?"

I came to understand, accept, and believe God's word and found the monergistic view was much more consistent with whole scripture because of the goodwill intentions of other Calvinists. So, yes, it is quite possible for a Calvinist to expect s/he will get somewhere with non-Cals. Most of wore your shoes and walked your path before accepting Calvinism.
I agree completely. I didn't even know it was called Calvinism, when I came to the conclusions I did. A major driving force that brought me to believe differently from the Arminianistic teaching I had (as a missionary kid) was the simple logical result of realizing that my decision's commitments were always untrustworthy. The agony of my own ungodliness drove me then to study Scripture and scream to God for understanding and obedience. Almost humorously for the irony of it, instead of getting the answer I wanted to my prayer, I found my satisfaction in Christ, and not in my performance. I found out this life is about our Amazing God, and not about me. And a whole universe of other, but all related, things, opened up for me.
 
Most of us who are now Calvinist were previously Arminian. We were raised, converted, or taught under Arminian leadership and believed what we were taught. As we aged and matured, we gradually the lessons of others and began studying scripture and theology for ourselves, incuding the doctrines of salvation. We learned not to proof-text scripture, and we noticed how many of our preachers and teachers do it on a daily basis. In studying scripture, not only was sound exegesis learned, but we also learned it's not hard to learn. It opens up the word of God to illuminate His revelation in ways not possible with casual reading. We not only learned that Arminianism was not the only doctrine of salvation held in the Church, it was not the oldest, the, most historical, or the only view considered orthodox. We learned the debate between Calvin and Arminius preceded them and it had taken various forms for centuries and it was not specifically a Protestant concern. We learned the Arminian position can be obtained only reading scripture inferentially and only by starting with certain humanistic assumption. Much to our reluctance, perhaps even chagrin, we learned there are a plethora of texts in scripture that bluntly assign salvific causality to God and God alone prior to conversion. I am not sure anyone wants to be Calvinist in the beginning. It confronts our sensibilities and forces us to ask, "Do I trust my own perceptions, or do I trust the plain reading of God's word?"

I came to understand, accept, and believe God's word and found the monergistic view was much more consistent with whole scripture because of the goodwill intentions of other Calvinists. So, yes, it is quite possible for a Calvinist to expect s/he will get somewhere with non-Cals. Most of wore your shoes and walked your path before accepting Calvinism.
I hope you don't take too much offense at my thinking most of that is just a load of hooey. Since you provided no data to support your very first sentence, I choose to reject it. As for proof-texting, you flatter yourself thinking that Calvinists engage in it less than others. The simple question of support for original sin or the even worse total depravity would demonstrate that. I would argue that the Calvinist is more reliant upon proof-texting than many others. Similarly thinking that Calvinists employ sound exegesis more than others is little more than self-aggrandizement.

Finally, I would add that generally it is not a question of Calvinist versus Arminian; rather it is Calvinist versus non-Calvinist.
 
I hope you don't take too much offense at my thinking most of that is just a load of hooey. Since you provided no data to support your very first sentence, I choose to reject it. As for proof-texting, you flatter yourself thinking that Calvinists engage in it less than others. The simple question of support for original sin or the even worse total depravity would demonstrate that. I would argue that the Calvinist is more reliant upon proof-texting than many others. Similarly thinking that Calvinists employ sound exegesis more than others is little more than self-aggrandizement.
I take offense at all the derogatory personal comments about others.
Finally, I would add that generally it is not a question of Calvinist versus Arminian; rather it is Calvinist versus non-Calvinist.
Monergist vs synergist ;)
 
I hope you don't take too much offense at my thinking most of that is just a load of hooey. Since you provided no data to support your very first sentence,
Well I was an Arminian. For 20+ years. Does that count?
 
Well I was an Arminian. For 20+ years. Does that count?
Well, I have a very good friend who was a Calvinist who is now a non-Calvinist. Neither you nor he supports or does not support Josheb's claim. Does it count? For you, I am sure it does.
 
Sure, if God is willing. 🙂
I can't imagine why God would be willing for a non-Calvinist to convert to a Calvinist unless of course he was not just a non-Calvinist but an atheist.:)
 
Well, I have a very good friend who was a Calvinist who is now a non-Calvinist. Neither you nor he supports or does not support Josheb's claim. Does it count? For you, I am sure it does.
Irrelevant. The question we were answering has nothing to do with Cals becoming non-Cals. The question asked was,
Do you really expect to get anywhere with a non-Calvinist?
And the answer is, "Yes, God willing, because most of us used to be like you."

Why be contentious about it?
 
I can't imagine why God would be willing for a non-Calvinist to convert to a Calvinist unless of course he was not just a non-Calvinist but an atheist.:)
Apparently you can't imagine why your imagination isn't a good judge of how God works. I've been a believer for as long as I can remember. But my beliefs changed, and whatd'ya know? —Calvinism agrees with me now!
 
Well, I have a very good friend who was a Calvinist who is now a non-Calvinist. Neither you nor he supports or does not support Josheb's claim. Does it count? For you, I am sure it does.
If your friend is who I think it may be, he was never truly a Calvinist.
Not that it matters really.
 
I can't imagine why God would be willing for a non-Calvinist to convert to a Calvinist unless of course he was not just a non-Calvinist but an atheist.:)
I understand. :)
Some things are very hard to imagine.
 
Irrelevant. The question we were answering has nothing to do with Cals becoming non-Cals. The question asked was,

And the answer is, "Yes, God willing, because most of us used to be like you."

Why be contentious about it?
If there is any here who exhibits contentiousness, I think it is you.
 
If your friend is who I think it may be, he was never truly a Calvinist.
Not that it matters really.
You haven't a clue who my friend is, not that it matters really.
 
Apparently you can't imagine why your imagination isn't a good judge of how God works. I've been a believer for as long as I can remember. But my beliefs changed, and whatd'ya know? —Calvinism agrees with me now!
So that makes both you and Calvinism wrong.:)
 
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