I chose God..Or God chose me...

[fastfredy0]

Let me make this simple. Can a person be saved apart from the Proclamation of the Gospel?

I'll answer .... let me think now ....hmmmm ...... NO! (faith cometh by hearing)

Aside: some people go on a tangent and speak of the Age of Accountability

 

[Ladodgers6]

I'll answer .... let me think now ....hmmmm ...... NO! (faith cometh by hearing)

Aside: some people go on a tangent and speak of the Age of Accountability

With more gentleness friend, and yes you're correct.

 

[Eleanor]

In the NC - yes, I've said this all along. The Holy Spirit indwells his people permanently, in the NC.

You claimed that the Holy Spirit only indwelt OC saints intermittently; however, we can't prove that this was universally the case. That was my only disagreement.

He operated within them intermittently, not indwelt then interittently.

 

[Eleanor]

You didn't answer the question.

Assuming proclamation of the gospel is required for faith in Jesus Christ, the answer is no according to the NT.

 

[fastfredy0]

He operated within them intermittently, not indwelt then interittently.

Premise 1: Romans 8:9 However, you are not [living] in the flesh [controlled by the sinful nature] but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God lives in you [directing and guiding you]. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him [and is not a child of God]. Amp
Conclusion: All Children of God in Old and New Testament have Spirit of Christ in them at all times; otherwise, according to the verse they are not "a child of God".

Bedtime .... you can have the last word ...

 

[Carbon]

God is sovereign. He can both rebirth and reveal himself to whom he chooses to do so, which will result in faith in Christ.

But according to scripture faith comes by hearing. Meaning, once regeneration happens, and they hear the word, they believe. This is the way God designed it to work.

 

[Ladodgers6]

Assuming proclamation of the gospel is required for faith in Jesus Christ, the answer is no according to the NT.

Huh???

 

[Eleanor]

Premise 1: Romans 8:9 However, you are not [living] in the flesh [controlled by the sinful nature] but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God lives in you [directing and guiding you]. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him [and is not a child of God]. Amp
Conclusion: All Children of God in Old and New Testament have Spirit of Christ in them at all times; otherwise, according to the verse they are not "a child of God".

Bedtime .... you can have the last word ...

What about that pesky Jn 16:7?

BW, there was supposed to be a smiley on my last post to you (#210).

 

[Eleanor]

duplicate

 

[Eleanor]

But according to scripture faith comes by hearing. Meaning, once regeneration happens, and they hear the word, they believe. This is the way God designed it to work.

I guess that would include by reading the word.

 

[Eleanor]

Huh???

If proclamation of the gospel is necessary for faith, then there is no salvation apart from proclamation of the gospel.

 

[Ladodgers6]

If proclamation of the gospel is necessary for faith, then there is no salvation apart from proclamation of the gospel.

Exactly, that's what I have been saying. Faith comes by hearing the Gospel, correct?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

There is so much controversy over these two testimonies from believers

I never chose God, he chose me...I never chose to be birthed in the Spirit.

Thoughts please?

Does the living word of God teach that we can choose to be birthed in the Spirit?

The "Living Word" teaches that it ALL STARTS WITH GOD, who "Draws us" to Jesus, and the under the CONVICTION OF SIN, and of JUDGEMENT, we can Choose to surrender, and repent, crying out for salvation, OR break and run back into spiritual death like I did every time - until the last time back in '63.

 

[Ladodgers6]

The "Living Word" teaches that it ALL STARTS WITH GOD, who "Draws us" to Jesus, and the under the CONVICTION OF SIN, and of JUDGEMENT, we can Choose to surrender, and repent, crying out for salvation, OR break and run back into spiritual death like I did every time - until the last time back in '63.

How does God draw us? This is such a vague and ambiguous statement. In the Calvinist position we hold to Law & Gospel preaching. It's only through God's word that sinners are saved. Which is why he gave us his Holy Word to read, study and seek the truth.

 

[Ritajanice]

Interesting article. I did not see any verse saying the Spirit stopped indwelling an O.T. saint. I see verses saying the Spirit empowered OT saints in a particular way at a particular time (as He does us) and I see David asking that the Spirit not be taken away which implies it is possible, but only "implies".

At https://www.ligonier.org/podcasts/ask-ligonier/did-the-holy-spirit-indwell-old-testament-believers
Dr. Ferguson, did the Holy Spirit indwell believers in the Old Testament?

DR. SINCLAIR FERGUSON: Nathan, that's a really good question and I think it's one that is very often asked. And I think the reason it's asked is because first of all, there's not a single clear statement, I don't think, in the Bible anywhere that gives us the answer.
....
So, to back up, I think I would say this, that unless the Holy Spirit had dwelt in believers in the Old Testament, they couldn't have come to faith. If the Holy Spirit did not dwell in believers in the Old Testament, then the fruit of the Spirit would not have been produced in them.
But when the New Testament describes these things, it often uses Old Testament illustrations and examples. So, I would say the Holy Spirit did indwell believers under the old covenant. The difference is not so much in His indwelling but in the manner of their experience of Him and their knowledge of Him. In the new covenant, because of the coming of our Lord Jesus, we have a clearer view of who the Holy Spirit is and we have a richer experience of Him.

yahda, yahda

I have resigned myself to the fact, that we will never know for sure...no more than we know how God births us in the Spirit, ....all believers can do, is give their testimony....nothing can be proved...imo/ belief...

All we can do is wonder....about the OT times.....

 

[Ritajanice]

We have nothing to do with our rebirth, absolutely nothing, just as we have nothing to do with our physical birth, absolutely nothing.
The new birth comes by nothing but the totally sovereign act of the Holy Spirit, as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:3-8).

100% agree....AMEN!!....

 

[Ritajanice]

God is sovereign. He can both rebirth and reveal himself to whom he chooses to do so, which will result in faith in Christ.

Again 100% agree...Amen!!

 

[Ritajanice]

But according to scripture faith comes by hearing. Meaning, once regeneration happens, and they hear the word, they believe. This is the way God designed it to work.

Faith comes by hearing.....how do you hear the Holy Spirit ....birth you in the Spirit....what needs to happen?

There is a lot of controversy on here ,if that’s the right word....about being birthed in the Spirit.

I even pick up on some ,not understanding what the Spiritual birth even means....

You do not have to read God’s word for him to birth his children.

Afterwards...Yes......most definitely...as soon as I became Born Again by the Spirit of Christ....which I knew in my heart straight away, as the Holy Spirit was indwelling me ,taking up permanent residence in my heart/ spirit....he testified with my spirit that I was his child/ Born Again.........before all of that happened, there was much more...a very private time, where I was sobbing and crying , very much alone on my bed....searching within myself on my terrible traumatic life....God’s timing was completely and absolutely perfect......and a MIRACLE BIRTH I have always called it...a Mind Blowing birth.....Praise God.....no one has ever understood my testimony and most put it down to my emotions,......I understand that....because humans are just that...” human”.....our understanding of God’s ALMIGHTY POWER, is very limited..

No disrespect to anyone here....I have read word for word by a few ,that one is Born Again, it sounds like one is reading from the word of God....yet there is no spiritual life in the words......God’s word is a Living Spirit.....mighty and powerful....the rebirth is also a “living experience “....it’s not words from the Bible.....those are living words....what does his living word mean to you?....I ask out of curiosity....because as of yet, no one has answered my question so far and I’ve asked a number of times.

 

[Ritajanice]

How does God draw us? This is such a vague and ambiguous statement. In the Calvinist position we hold to Law & Gospel preaching. It's only through God's word that sinners are saved. Which is why he gave us his Holy Word to read, study and seek the truth.

So ,are you saying that God only saves through reading the Bible?

How could I seek God’s truth without first being birthed in the Spirit?

What does that mean even?...I asked you before about it...further up, maybe you missed my question?

I have been seeking God’s truth for the past 31 years....once I had been birthed in his living Spirit.....that’s all I knew ,I was Born Again.....immediately I went and bought a Bible.....and have been led through it by the Holy Spirit.......I wanted to learn all about what I am in Christ as a Born Again.....and boy has he taught me what it means,,,,,but, it must be relayed and understood by the Spirit testifying with my spirit, in other words talking to my spirit through God’s Spirit......which is Alve in us..yes? ..lately I am transfixed to the living word of God.

Yes, we are to study daily of course...but, do you actually understand what it means, when I say those words in God’s word...needs to be relayed to our heart/ spirit?....what does that mean to you?

Then I will say what I believe it means to me...

 

[Ladodgers6]

So ,are you saying that God only saves through reading the Bible?

I said through the Proclamation of the Gospel. Yes reading the Gospel is also good as well, because it is God's living word.

How could I seek God’s truth without first being birthed in the Spirit?

How are you birth in the Spirit?

What does that mean even?...I asked you before about it...further up, maybe you missed my question?

Do you have me confused with someone else?

I have been seeking God’s truth for the past 31 years....once I had been birthed in his living Spirit.....that’s all I knew ,I was Born Again.....immediately I went and bought a Bible.....and have been led through it by the Holy Spirit.......I wanted to learn all about what I am in Christ as a Born Again.....and boy has he taught me what it means,,,,,but, it must be relayed and understood by the Spirit testifying with my spirit, in other words talking to my spirit through God’s Spirit......which is Alve in us..yes? ..lately I am transfixed to the living word of God.

Okay how did you know you were birth in the Spirit?

Yes, we are to study daily of course...but, do you actually understand what it means, when I say those words in God’s word...needs to be relayed to our heart/ spirit?....what does that mean to you?

Then I will say what I believe it means to me...

That's what God word does, it renews our minds.

I love the book of Romans 12: 2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.

This is through his word, everything we need to know is in the Holy Scriptures. Which is one of the Reformation slogans of by Scripture Alone! We must be grounded in his word, so that we are not deceived and we can test false teachers.