I abandoned my faith, maybe i have exchanged my faith

[Eternally-Grateful]

That's why we say that salvation is entirely by grace.

I say the exact same thing.

Not by any decision of fallen man, who is incapable of pleasing God.

did the tax collector please God when he got on his knees

I never said anything about a split second. God does what he does, not by our progression of time or thought. Whether it is a split second or a life-long activity is irrelevant to it's logical necessity. Fallen man, dead in sin, is unable to please God, or to do anything to effect his salvation. It is all by God's doing. Man cannot add to what God does, cannot improve, cannot fill, cannot do anything spiritually real apart from Christ.

you are different than other reformed believers I have spoken to then.

who all say it all happens in a second

I can only go by what I have been told. if you believe different, share to me what you believe..

 

[Arial]

sir

For the second or third time---I am not a sir.

Jesus spoke to nicodemus in John 3.

why are you going to a different conversation?

I do not have to explain why or how. The fact is. they were all given the message of salvation. And some believed and were saved. some did not and remained condemned

That is from post #63 of this thread, and I am pointing out that Jesus did explain why some believe and some don't.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

For the second or third time---I am not a sir.


That is from post #63 of this thread, and I am pointing out that Jesus did explain why some believe and some don't.

your explaining from your point of view

I disagree with this point of view. and do not feel you have made a case that would make me repent of my thinking

I just take what Jesus said in kind

I take the story of Moses and the serpent. and Jesus words in saying in the same way he will be lifted up so that......

sorry the lion you have as your avatar would be a male lion.. so I forget..I will try to remember please forgive me

 

[makesends]

John 3:
3 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Can you see the kingdom of God unless you are born again?

Obviously, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God. Why do you ask?

 

[makesends]

I say the exact same thing.

Yes, you say it. But you also say that it is a result of, among what things God does, something that you must do. Thus, not entirely of grace.

did the tax collector please God when he got on his knees

you are different than other reformed believers I have spoken to then.

who all say it all happens in a second

I can only go by what I have been told. if you believe different, share to me what you believe..

I don't actually identify as Reformed. Calvinist, either. But most of what they believe, I believe, but I think of some things differently. I consider myself logic-bound to the implications of God's omnipotence. For example, I can't present a complete ordo salutis, as so many things, to me, are intricately bound to the rest as to be, even logically, simultaneous. Causally, I agree with the fact of the utter necessity of regeneration before anyone can do anything truly good. Also causally, I see beautiful reality in the fact that the Spirit of God is the absolute source of all good from within myself. Thus, repentance, love for Christ and desire for his fellowship, submission and obedience —not only generally, as in 'Sanctification'— but in every particular, is a direct result of the work of the Spirit of God —not only in motivation and ability to do these things, but in the very doing of them. "Not I, but Christ in me."

I believe in God's utter causation and meticulous control of every fact, substance, principle and all reality, from "the whole business" to the most miniscule and seemingly unimportant or irrelevant. I consider it possible, for example, that if science could ever find the smallest particle or substance of matter and force, that it would be something "of" him that all matter and force are built of—perhaps something very physical, such as "Love"— and not that the universe is him, nor that he is at all comprised of the universe, (because, after all, mathematically, what is taken from infinity does not reduce infinity).

(This has huge implications to such biblical themes as "restoring all things" to himself, and to the philosophical/theological attributes of God, and to ideas such as how God can "love the whole world" and be intimately involved with everything, yet plan from the beginning to do away with some of it. It even has implications to scientific principles, such as the Conservation of Energy.)

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Obviously, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God. Why do you ask?

so then it is basically an imperative. If it is not done. you will not see the kingdom of God.

now one can not make themselves born again. So something must happen. Jesus explains in great detail what that something is.. Including using an OT event to bring more light to the situation (Nicodemus being an teacher of OT scripture)

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes, you say it. But you also say that it is a result of, among what things God does, something that you must do. Thus, not entirely of grace.

Paul says otherwise.

I was saved by grave THROUGH FAITH.. and not of myself..

God gave me something to trust. I did not give myself any reason toi trust.

again, The tax collector did not save himself by calling out for Gods mercy.

I don't actually identify as Reformed. Calvinist, either. But most of what they believe, I believe, but I think of some things differently. I consider myself logic-bound to the implications of God's omnipotence. For example, I can't present a complete ordo salutis, as so many things, to me, are intricately bound to the rest as to be, even logically, simultaneous. Causally, I agree with the fact of the utter necessity of regeneration before anyone can do anything truly good. Also causally, I see beautiful reality in the fact that the Spirit of God is the absolute source of all good from within myself. Thus, repentance, love for Christ and desire for his fellowship, submission and obedience —not only generally, as in 'Sanctification'— but in every particular, is a direct result of the work of the Spirit of God —not only in motivation and ability to do these things, but in the very doing of them. "Not I, but Christ in me."

I believe the same thing

What separates us is you think we need regenerated first.

I believe God brings us to faith first.

Faith first in the gospel.

faith second in every day life..

as we take steps of faith. God continues to prove himself faithful. and the closer we get to him.

I believe in God's utter causation and meticulous control of every fact, substance, principle and all reality, from "the whole business" to the most miniscule and seemingly unimportant or irrelevant. I consider it possible, for example, that if science could ever find the smallest particle or substance of matter and force, that it would be something "of" him that all matter and force are built of—perhaps something very physical, such as "Love"— and not that the universe is him, nor that he is at all comprised of the universe, (because, after all, mathematically, what is taken from infinity does not reduce infinity).

i agree in part.

the issue I have is what do we tell a person who asks. why does God allow evil to go on so freely. Why does he not put a stop to it. why does he allow the suffering of people at the hands of evil men and women?

what answer do we give them?

(This has huge implications to such biblical themes as "restoring all things" to himself, and to the philosophical/theological attributes of God, and to ideas such as how God can "love the whole world" and be intimately involved with everything, yet plan from the beginning to do away with some of it. It even has implications to scientific principles, such as the Conservation of Energy.)

what do you mean by do away with some of it? want to understand