- Joined
- May 21, 2023
- Messages
- 4,484
- Reaction score
- 4,859
- Points
- 113
- Faith
- Monergist
- Country
- USA
- Marital status
- Widower
- Politics
- Conservative
I appreciate the amount of time you put into this. But throughout, even if your construction is valid (which I argue it is not) you have yet to show how some people do, and some people don't, come to him, when all are incapable of doing so, per Romans 8 and many other, perhaps less obvious, passages.But God says it is
How am I born again.
Nicodemus even asked that question. How can this be? Jesus answered him
John 3:
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12& f I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
1st point God came down from heaven
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
2nd point, he takes us to the story Nicodemus would have known well.. the serpent. The serpent could have saved everyone, but it did not. why? those who believed looked and were saved, those who did not believe refused to look at died.
even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him
3rd point. Jesus would be lifted just as the bronze serpent (a type of Christ) was lifted up.
should not perish but have eternal life.
4th point. just like those who looked to the serpent lived. whoever looks to christ will live. But not this this, they will not die. and they have life (here is the new birth) this birth being forever.. ie. eternal security for the same on
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
5th point. To reiterate the 3rd and 4th point. Just as moses bronze serpent was offered to all. Jesus is offered to all (the world) not just those who will be saved, but everyone
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
6th point, a repeat of the 4th point. to drive his point home
that just like those in isreal were saved by believing Moses (in effect God) whoever believes these words of Jesus will not perish. but have new life (born again) and this life is eternal (again eternal security)
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
again be saved is an aorist passive subjunctive word. it speaks of a period of time, where the work of God MAY save a person (it is not a person saving themselves. only the possibly they may be saved is there)
which brings us to the 7th point. Jesus was sent to the world (everyone) that they might (not will) be saved
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already,
8th poinit. reiterating once again. what must we do to be born again. Look in faith to the cross..look and you will be saved you will live,m your condemnation of death will be removed Those who do not look. just as the children of Isreal. will remain condemned)
because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
and here he drives the point home
it is not because we were not regenerated so we could have faith we are condemned. it is because we do not believe..
we did what the children of Israel who died did. We failed to look so we could be saved. even though the offer of salvation was ours for the taking. all we had to do was trust him.
God will not make your decision for you
If I did not have faith. I would not recieve. I would remain in unbelief and be lost
i never said this. once again,. DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH sorry for talking loudly. but I am sick of being falsly accused.
No God brought me to my knees.. and I had a choice to make. we all do..
this makes no sense.
Both did
John 3 said it is after we look in faith we are given life
John 5 says it is after we see and believe we pass from death to life.
because you believed. or while you were still in unbelief?
look what jesus said..
Yet they do.
yes. By grace they have been saved. or made alive.
iuts all of grace, But god does not force us. he asks us to reciev in in faith (john 1 to recieve , John 3 to believe to look, john 4 to ask, john 5. to hear and believe, john 6. To work for food which endures. To come to himl, to believe, too eat the bread from heaven, to gnaw and chew on the flesh and blood (the words of live) even peter understood. we see and believe yuo have the words of eternal life.
,
romans 8 is the final act of the romans road..
If the spirit does not act on the dead. they will never believe. you see it. but do you really
again. its simple
John 1: 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE (no works)
John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)
John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)
John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)
John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)
John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)
John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)
John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)
EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)
eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)
rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)
rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)
Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)
Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)
2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)
Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED USthrough the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
I use these verses to appose a legalistic gospel of works. But I think it fits ok here also (yes it is a cut and paste. i have used it alot lately. as usual they riun from these passages and will not even look into them, so they may not all apply here. if not forgove me )
read all these passages you see the same message
faith is not a work.. to say me trusting God and receiving him is me saving myself goes against the word of God
we are saved by Grace through faith. God does not force it on ue. He offeres it to us. like he offered it to the childrne in the wilderness
Those who trusted God lived
those who did not died
God di not force those who looked to live, He did not keep those who died from having the ability to believe.
Your use of John 3 completely ignores the first, that Christ speaks of regeneration, before speaking of the serpent. They are not able to look to him, if God does not first enable them to do so. Regeneration.