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Hell's New Arrivals

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Heaven is sometimes depicted as a mountain with any number of roads around the
base heading towards the top. Well; classical Christianity accepts only one of those
roads reaches the top; viz: the rest are dead-ends, loops, terraces, circles, and cul
de-sacs, i.e. no outlets and nowhere to go except round and around or back down
the mountain

Hell is depicted as a colossal pit, deep and wide, with many roads around the rim
heading towards the bottom. Well; classical Christianity accepts that every one of
those roads eventually merge into one big super expressway to the bottom.

Matt 7:13-14 . . Wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction,
and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to
life, and only a few find it.

How many people does the quantity "many" represent? Well, according to my
sources, as of mid 2020 there were approximately:

50,000 . . . . . . . . Scientologists
16,500,000 . . . . .Mormons
8,200,000 . . . . . .Practicing Jehovah's Witnesses
8,531,000 . . . . . .Baha'i
545,584,000 . . . .Buddhists
468,411,000 . . . .Chinese Folk Religionists
8,606,000 . . . . . .Confucianists
269,498,000 . . . .Ethnic Religionists
1,062,595,000 . . .Hindus
6,135,000 . . . . . .Jains
14,779,000 . . . . .Jews
1,893,345,000 . . Muslims
64,549,000 . . . . .New Religionists.
2,788,000 . . . . . .Shintoists
28,000,000 . . . . .Sikhs
14,851,000 . . . . .Spiritists
9,078,000 . . . . . .Taoists
1,757,433,000 . . .Non Religious/Atheists/Agnostics

The grand total of just those categories is 5,710,522,000

If those figures are in the ball park, and if classical Christianity is the truth; then at
least 73% of the world's 2020 population was on a road to perdition; and quite
possibly some of them were people we know: our BFF, our loved ones, and our
associates.[/font]

UPDATE: 29 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the OP's figures are in
the ball park, then something like 2,011,556 new arrivals have checked into the fiery
sector of Hades since July 04, 2023.
_
 
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It's natural to assume that only really bad people are in hell. But according to Matt
7:23-27, John 3:3-8, John 3:14-20, John 3:36, and Rev 20:11-15, anybody can be
there; both the good, the bad, and the not so bad-- bikers, bakers, lawyers,
welders, actors and actresses, housewives, bankers, heavy equipment operators,
loggers, convicts, celebrities, homeless bums, clergy, prostitutes, drug lords,
postmen, Victoria's Secret models, presidents, kings,

. . . statesmen, astronauts, school teachers, scientists, nurses, doctors,
chemists, machinists, carpenters, waiters, hotel managers, cops, judges, nuns,
priests, Popes, deacons, salesmen, Miss Americas, news anchors, weathermen, and
birdwatchers, et al --people from every walk, every career, every religion, every
culture, every language, every ethnic, every craft, and every status: they're all in
danger of the sum of all fears.

Rev 20:12 . . I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and
books were opened.

Because when you strip away their gender, their titles, their distinctions, their
privileges, and their entitlements; and stand them before God naked; people are
only flesh and blood creatures-- naked apes, just human beings; and human beings
are intrinsically sinful beings whether inbred or bred to perfection.

Gen 8:21 . . Man's thoughts and actions are bent toward evil from childhood.

Ps 58:3 . . Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are
wayward and speak lies.

Eph 2:3 . .We were by nature objects of wrath.


UPDATE: 31 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the OP's figures are in
the ball park, then something like 2,150,284 new arrivals have checked into the fiery
sector of Hades since July 04, 2023.
_
 
Are the guy that was on grace centered forum? pretty sure you are~all you do is post and never respond back.

I have told you before and tell you once again there is no such place as a fiery sector of Hades. That's Catholicism doctrine pure and simple, where your brother was a priest.

The wicked are in the grave where the worms are sweetly feeding on them, waiting for the resurrection when they shall come forth to be judged, and then cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

The lake of fire will be THIS EARTH when God destroys it with fervent heat and it shall passed away with all of the wicked therein. 2nd Peter, seems very clear to me.
 
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John 6:37 . . All that the Father gives me will come to me,

FAQ: What percentage of those the Father gives him would you suppose Jesus
expects to lose?


REPLY: The good shepherd doesn't have any lost sheep. What do you take him for:
a run of the mill cowboy? All those that God entrusted to His son's care are safe
and sound.

John 10:9 . . I am the gate; whoever enters through me shall be saved.

Were Christ a common ranch hand; then he wouldn't dare say "shall be" saved; no,
he'd have to tone it down a bit and say "can be" saved. That would leave him some
room for error. But when Christ says "shall be" he's claiming a 0.0% failure rate.

John 10:27-28 . . No one can snatch them out of my hand.


FAQ: Why can't the sheep of their own free will take themselves out of his hand?

REPLY: They wouldn't get very far because the Father's free will trumps the sheep's
free will.

John 6:39 . .This is the will of the one who sent me; that I should not lose
anything of what He gave me.

So then, were Christ to lose even one of the sheep, he would disappoint the one
who sent him. But Christ never fails to satisfy his Father's expectations.

John 14:31 . . That the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father
gave me commandment, even so I do.

John 8:29 . .The one who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, because I
always do what is pleasing to Him.

Were Christ to lose even one of the sheep given to him by the Father, he wouldn't
be able to say that he "always" pleases the one who sent him. He might claim some
of the time, or even most of the time, but never all the time. And besides: Jesus
has all the powers of the supreme being at his disposal to keep the sheep right
where he wants them-- no, they're not leaving home without him.

* When people say that it's possible for Jesus to lose sheep; they are actually
casting a vote of no-confidence in his Father's approval rating.

Matt 3:16-17 . . As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At
that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a
dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said; "This is My son, whom I
love; with him I am well pleased."


UPDATE: 33 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the OP's figures are in
the ball park, then something like 2,289,012 new arrivals have checked into the fiery
sector of Hades since July 04, 2023.
_
 
.
FAQ: Isn't Judaism equally as useful as Christianity for sinners seeking God's
forgiveness? Isn't that the whole purpose of Yom Kippur, a.k.a. the Day of
Atonement?


REPLY: Pinning one's hopes on the Day Of Atonement is futile. For one thing:
there's no one to perform the ritual seeing as how there is neither a Temple nor a
fully functioning Aaronic high priest on duty in Jerusalem at this time. In point of
fact, neither of those two essential elements of the Day of Atonement have been in
Jerusalem since 70 AD. But that's not the worst of it.

The original sacrificial system was effective-- to a point --for addressing the
peoples' actions, and for sanitizing their bodies, but totally ineffective for
addressing the people themselves, viz: their persons, the core of their being.

When Adam tasted the forbidden fruit, his perception of decency underwent a
radical change. Whereas before, he was comfortable seen undressed; afterwards he
was uncomfortable seen naked even by his wife.

The thing is: Adam's moral compass went awry, i.e. his conscience became
humanistic.

Gen 3:22 . . And The Lord God said: The man has now become like one of us,
knowing good and evil.

In other words: Adam began looking to his own intuition for moral direction instead
of looking to his maker, viz: Adam became a tin God.

Point being: none of the Levitical system's rituals address the corruption inherent
within the human conscience that came about by means of the forbidden fruit
incident.

Heb 9:13-14 . .The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on
those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.
How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit
offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to
death, so that we may serve the living God.

The Greek word translated "consciences" basically pertains to mental activity
especially as it pertains to moral perception. So we're not talking about outwardly
sinful behavior here. (cf. Rom 2:16 and Heb 4:12)


UPDATE: 35 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the OP's figures are in
the ball park, then something like 2,427,740 new arrivals have checked into the fiery
sector of Hades since July 04, 2023.
_
 
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I know of the Protestant minister asked by Audie Murphy's widow Pamela to speak
at her husband's funeral. Mr. Murphy, as you may already know, was a 32nd
degree Scottish Rite Mason and a Shriner; but he wasn't a Christian.

In amazement, the minister asked Mrs. Murphy why she chose a Christian to speak
at her husband's funeral.

Although Audie himself wasn't a Christian, Pamela was; and she explained that the
Hollywood crowd would be there the day of his funeral, and having hob-nobbed
with pampered celebries during her husband's acting career, she was fully aware
that many of them were rarely confronted with something serious about the
afterlife.

Well; they got both barrels that day, and were very annoyed because they were
expecting the usual sappy, feel-good rhetoric with which their ilk are accustomed.

Some may feel that Hell isn't an appropriate topic at a funeral. But I think that,
other than Xmas and Easter, you couldn't pick a better time to bring it up,
especially since Christ said that the majority ends up there.

Ecc 7:2 . . It is better to go to a house of mourning than to go to a house of
gaiety, for death is the destiny of every man; the living should take this seriously.

According to the Bible; not many great people are called (1Cor 1:26). If that's true,
then we have to expect that the majority of the world's best and brightest
achievers-- the really big names in sports, science, medicine, law, politics,
technology, business, industry, religion, entertainment, and education, etc --don't,
and won't, make it to safety when they pass on.

As I watched some of the splendor and pomp of President Gerald Ford's funeral
back in January of 2007, I couldn't help but wonder if he was in a position to really
appreciate it; as I suspect people in Hades would certainly no longer really care
anymore whether they were given an unknown pauper's disposal in a City
incinerator, or reverently placed in a grand tomb in the National Cemetery with
world-wide television coverage.


UPDATE: 37 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the OP's figures are in
the ball park, then something like 2,566,468 new arrivals have checked into the fiery
sector of Hades since July 04, 2023.
_
 
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Deut 27:26 . . Cursed be anyone who does not confirm the words of this law by
doing them.

Something that should be emphasized is that the curse is irrevocable; so it's very
important to come to grips with it; and the sooner the better.

Matt 5:18 . . For assuredly, I say to you: till heaven and earth pass away, not
one jot or one tittle will by any means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

In other words: whoever deserves that curse is absolutely certain to get it.

In point of fact, Deut 27:26 is grammatically present tense rather than future,
indicating that the curse is instant-- no delay and no waiting period. i.e. it's already
on the books hanging over people's heads like a guillotine just waiting for the man
in charge to give the executioner a signal to let go the rope keeping the blade in
check.


UPDATE: 39 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the OP's figures are in
the ball park, then something like 2,705,196 new arrivals have checked into the fiery
sector of Hades since July 04, 2023.
_
 
.
Ps 146:3-4 . . Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there
is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his
thoughts perish.

Some people honestly believe the passage above teaches that people cease to exist
when they pass away; but were their belief true, then Christ would've ceased to
exist when he passed away on the cross and in order to restore the Lord's body to
life, it would've been necessary to first create the man himself back into existence.
No; I'm pretty sure that Psalm says something very different.

The Hebrew word translated "thoughts" can just as easily pertain to plans, ideas,
and schemes.

Consider all those people who perished in the World Trade Center, in the Japan and
Indonesia tsunamis, and the Haiti earthquake. None of them woke that day
planning on it being their last on earth. No, on the contrary; they had people to
see, places to go, and things to do: but before the day ended; whatever was on
their minds lost its importance-- their priorities went right out the window and
became no more significant than green cheese on the moon.

All their plans, their dreams, their schedules, their appointments, their schemes,
their problems, their aspirations, and their loves went right down the tubes as they
were suddenly confronted with a whole new reality to cope with.

While preparing for a new world tour, Michael Jackson died in his sleep. As a result;
his tour wrapped on the spot.

When my eldest nephew was paroled from prison; he quit drinking, and began
going to college with the goal towards becoming a counselor. For 2½ years all went
well. His parole officer was happy, and my nephew was on track and getting good
grades. His future looked assured. And then on the morning of Sept 25, 2015, he
dropped dead to the floor of natural causes. As a result; his college education, and
his hope to become a counselor, dropped dead to the floor right with him.

* Jackson was raised a Jehovah's Witness, but it's possible he may have passed
away believing in Kabbalah, or Islam, or New Age spirituality. Apparently his
religion at death is thus far a mystery.

Well, either way: if traditional Christianity is true and reliable, then Jackson is likely
in a place now for which he was utterly unprepared. And can you imagine the
suffocating stagnation endured by entertainers like him as they languish day after
day, year after year, in an environment where not one single note of music is heard
for singing and dancing?


UPDATE: 41 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the OP's figures are in
the ball park, then something like 2,843,924 new arrivals have checked into the fiery
sector of Hades since July 04, 2023.
_
 
Are the guy that was on grace centered forum? pretty sure you are~all you do is post and never respond back.

I have told you before and tell you once again there is no such place as a fiery sector of Hades. That's Catholicism doctrine pure and simple, where your brother was a priest.

The wicked are in the grave where the worms are sweetly feeding on them, waiting for the resurrection when they shall come forth to be judged, and then cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

The lake of fire will be THIS EARTH when God destroys it with fervent heat and it shall passed away with all of the wicked therein. 2nd Peter, seems very clear to me.
The words of Jesus disagree with your doctrine:

Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Your interpretation of 2 Peter is in error:

1. It does not contradict the words of Jesus
2. Hell is not in the heavens.
3. Hell is in the spirit realm not the earthly nor having anything to do with the elements.


2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
 
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Ps 146:3-4 . . Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there
is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his
thoughts perish.

Some people honestly believe the passage above teaches that people cease to exist
when they pass away; but were their belief true, then Christ would've ceased to
exist when he passed away on the cross and in order to restore the Lord's body to
life, it would've been necessary to first create the man himself back into existence.
No; I'm pretty sure that Psalm says something very different.

The Hebrew word translated "thoughts" can just as easily pertain to plans, ideas,
and schemes.

Consider all those people who perished in the World Trade Center, in the Japan and
Indonesia tsunamis, and the Haiti earthquake. None of them woke that day
planning on it being their last on earth. No, on the contrary; they had people to
see, places to go, and things to do: but before the day ended; whatever was on
their minds lost its importance-- their priorities went right out the window and
became no more significant than green cheese on the moon.

All their plans, their dreams, their schedules, their appointments, their schemes,
their problems, their aspirations, and their loves went right down the tubes as they
were suddenly confronted with a whole new reality to cope with.

While preparing for a new world tour, Michael Jackson died in his sleep. As a result;
his tour wrapped on the spot.

When my eldest nephew was paroled from prison; he quit drinking, and began
going to college with the goal towards becoming a counselor. For 2½ years all went
well. His parole officer was happy, and my nephew was on track and getting good
grades. His future looked assured. And then on the morning of Sept 25, 2015, he
dropped dead to the floor of natural causes. As a result; his college education, and
his hope to become a counselor, dropped dead to the floor right with him.

* Jackson was raised a Jehovah's Witness, but it's possible he may have passed
away believing in Kabbalah, or Islam, or New Age spirituality. Apparently his
religion at death is thus far a mystery.

Well, either way: if traditional Christianity is true and reliable, then Jackson is likely
in a place now for which he was utterly unprepared. And can you imagine the
suffocating stagnation endured by entertainers like him as they languish day after
day, year after year, in an environment where not one single note of music is heard
for singing and dancing?


UPDATE: 41 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the OP's figures are in
the ball park, then something like 2,843,924 new arrivals have checked into the fiery
sector of Hades since July 04, 2023.
_
Hello former Grace Centered member. You make number 10... so add that to your stats.

And in doing so... what IS your point.
 
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Re: Mark 9:43-48

Jesus wasn't the first to speak of fire and worms. The prophet Isaiah introduced
them approximately 700 years before Jesus was born.

"From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will
come and bow down before me; says The Lord. And they will go out and look upon
the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me. Their worm will not die, nor will
their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind." (Isa 66:23-24)
_
 
The words of Jesus disagree with your doctrine:

Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Quoting these verses you have not proven what I said above is not correct. You gave no interpretation of Mark 9. Give me your understanding of Mark 9 and then we can discuss their true meaning.

Again, I will state that there is no such place as present burning hellfire where the wicked go at death~only to be brought forth out of there to be judged, and cast back according to your teaching. Prove it.
Your interpretation of 2 Peter is in error:

1. It does not contradict the words of Jesus
2. Hell is not in the heavens.
I assume you mean 2nd Peter 3~I said that the LAKE OF FIRE will be THIS EARTH when God will destroy both the earth the wicked therein.
Hell is in the spirit realm not the earthly nor having anything to do with the elements.
You tell me where the lake of fire will be using the scriptures. While you are at it~what does perish mean to you?
 
Again, I will state that there is no such place as present burning hellfire where the wicked go at death~only to be brought forth out of there to be judged, and cast back according to your teaching. Prove it.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The beast and the false prophet are tormented forever those not found in the book of life are sent to the same place!

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

What does "tormented day and night for ever and ever" mean to you ? I take as literal.

Marl 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

What does "never be quenched" Mean to you? I take it lterallly

Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

I reject the theory that Luke 16 is a parable.
 
While you are at it~what does perish mean to you?
Depends on context. It does not Biblically usually mean cease to exist. What specific verses do you have in mind.

The physical body can perish in death but still exist in some form. The soul can perish from earthly life and eternal life given to those who are saved but still exist in another realm.
 
I reject the theory that Luke 16 is a parable.
Let's work our way backwards~I'll deal first with Luke 16.

The truth is, as a literal event, this story brings us to many absurd conclusions. For example, without symbolism, it implies that the rich man went to hell because he was literally clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day. There is no mention of him committing sin in any way, or even of being uncharitable to the beggar. It simply states that he had his riches in this world, and the beggar has his in the next. Riches is not a sin, else Solomon and a host of other prophets would be condemned. It also implies that Lazarus was blessed because he was at the rich man's gate, full of sores, and begging crumbs while the dogs came and licked his sores. If all this indeed were to be interpreted as a literal narrative, based on what is written here, the only conclusion that we could draw is that beggars and those who have sores, go to heaven. While those wearing fine linen colored purple, or who is rich and has means, are destined for the torment in hades. Of course, that makes no sense, but without a symbolic meaning, this is the only conclusion from the passages that we can reach. The Bible shows us that many righteous men who were very rich. Righteous Joseph, the son of Israel, held the treasures of the Pharaoh and giving to whom he would, and was arrayed like a royal prince as second man in the realm. Again, righteous Job was God blessed and a God-fearing man, and yet he was also so rich, with as many as 7,000 animals, he was spoken of as the greatest of all the men of the east.

A parable is simply a human or earthly analogy, which obviously doesn't have to be current, real people, or real events. It can put forth a simple principle, such as the proverbs. Likewise, in the parable of Lazarus God is painting a picture, the importance of what is our present earthly spiritual condition (equated to rich man or poor), and the "finality" in the after-life results of it. It shows how he who died spiritual por because of his life on earth, cannot either help or be helped, so that all must get their help in this present life. That is the moral and warning of this story. That is why it is in the present tense. It is not declaring that this is an analogy of events that happen concurrently after men are cast into the torment of hell at the death of the body. Rather, it is showing us how the 'present' is the only place we can gain deliverance (Roman Catholic praying for the dead, and alleged purgatory notwithstanding) from this awful place they will be cast into at the last day's judgment. How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation? The answer is, we can't! Now is the acceptable time for salvation! This is the symbolic picture here.

Another reason that some Christians give for believing that this is a true story is implied in their question, "why would Lazarus be identified by name, if this was a parable?" However, we could likewise use the reverse of this logic and ask, "Why would the rich man not be identified by name, if this wasn't a parable?" It is the same tactic, and in neither case has any sound validity. The reason that Lazarus is named is because God assigns spiritual significance to names, and there is nothing in scripture that would preclude Him from doing so in a parable. That would be like saying that the figure of Elijah coming to prepare the way of the Lord, cannot be John the Baptist, because Elijah was "named," and thus it has to be his literal coming again. But we know that this is nonsense, as Jesus said, "and if ye will receive it, this is Elijah, which was for to come ~Matt 11:14," showing us that John was the fulfillment of that prophetic figure. In other words, he came spiritually (luke 1:17) or allegorically as Elijah did, but the name didn't mean he was physically Elijah. So this arbitrary rule that because someone is named in an allegory, it must be literal or physical, is without Biblical validation.

This parable isn't declaring that all this happens simultaneously, or that this rich man in hell had eyes, or had brothers that were still on earth while he is being tormented, or even that water could literally give him relief or cool his tongue. Rather, it is a parable showing what the judgment of the grave is, "from our present perspective in time." From man's perspective, this is what hellfire will be like, and this is its finality. It does not mean that men will be living on earth while other men are being tormented in Hellfire for their sins. That is a Biblical impossibility, considering all of scripture. For man is not cast into the lake of fire until after the judgment. We understand that Scripture does not exist in a vacuum. It cannot contradict itself, it must all be considered, in context, and in agreement with itself.

If this hell indeed was the hell of eternal torment, then why would God raise them up from here in the second resurrection, to then be cast into torment? And why Does God say they know nothing, cannot speak, and are in silence. If the parable of Lazarus is to be understood "literally," then they can both speak and know and are not in silence. It absolutely makes no sense whatsoever, and that is what always happens when man considers scripture in a vacuum. It contradicts itself, which is God's way of telling us that our understanding of it is flawed.

The Parabolic Application to Israel

Is the rich man and Lazarus a parable? Of course it is. In the context of the whole chapter of luke chapter sixteen, it is clear that in this spiritual signification, Jesus is condemning Israel (leaders) for their pride to trust in their own conceit and glory. In other words, God is equating riches with the pride of man who trusts in his own righteousness, and poverty with the humility of men who trust in the righteousness of Christ for all things, and not the works of his own hands. In the very same chapter, Christ spoke of the same analogy of riches just a few verses before this parable of Lazarus. Read the parable of the unjust stewart.

Luke 16:10-15

  • "He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
  • If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?"
  • And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
  • No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
  • And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
  • And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God."
Clearly, God is equating unrighteous riches (mamon) to that which Israel has as stewards, and how they were not faithful with~It is the very same warning against the haughty heart and self sufficiently that God gives the seven Churches in Revelation.
Revelation 3:17

  • "Because thou sayest, I am Rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
  • I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
  • As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."
Here we see the true riches versus that which man thinks is wealth. This is the rebuke of the Lord against His people who think themselves rich, but who in God's eyes were poor. In other words, their thinking that they were rich and needed nothing. God equates this to their thinking they were righteous of themselves and didn't need the righteousness of Christ. And that's the exact same figure Christ is using in this parable of the unjust steward. The riches entrusted to Israel is the righteous gospel of Christ which was not dealt to the poor. It wasn't physical riches, but the spiritual riches of agape charity. The very same principle as the Parable of the servant[7] who hid the riches that God gave him, instead of putting it to good use to help the poor. Again, it's not the physical poor in view, but the poor in spirit who hunger after righteousness, which Israel was the steward of. To loose the strangers from the prison house of Satan, to give the waters of Life of the gospel to a thirsty soul. This is what caring for the poor and needy consists of.

We could keep going, but enough to show without question Luke 16:19-31 is a parable spoken against Israel and their spiritual leaders.


Then he spoke the parable recorded in 19-31 to them! Context drives our interpretation, what drives yours? Your favorite preacher?
 
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Here in the USA, even the worst among the worst have the right to an attorney,
and if they can't afford one, the system will appoint a public defender for them.

But in the fiery sector of Hades; people are abandoned. For example: the names of
Abraham and Lazarus are given in Luke 16:19-31, but the rich man's name isn't
given. He's a forgotten man.

Prov 10:7 . .The memory of the just is blessed: but the name of the wicked shall
rot.

Christ's followers have the advantage of a competent defender 24/7/365

Rom 8:33-34 . . Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen?
Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus who died? More than that, who was raised
to life; who is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us?


UPDATE: 43 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the OP's figures are in
the ball park, then something like 2,982,652 new arrivals have checked into the fiery
sector of Hades since July 04, 2023.
_
 
The truth is, as a literal event, this story brings us to many absurd conclusions. For example, without symbolism, it implies that the rich man went to hell because he was literally clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day.
False! Because the sins of the rich man were not spelled out and numbered for you, does not mean we cannot understand from the text what the problem was . I will point you the the words of Jesus , it should then be clear.

Matthew 25:45
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

There are sins of omission.

There is no mention of him committing sin in any way, or even of being uncharitable to the beggar. It simply states that he had his riches in this world, and the beggar has his in the next.

By the fact no mention is made of mercy or help for the beggar the obvious implication is that he was ignored. What other truth can be gleaned from this story?

Riches is not a sin, else Solomon and a host of other prophets would be condemned.
Correct, to be rich is not a sin, but the love of money is and with that comes selfishness in many cases.


It also implies that Lazarus was blessed because he was at the rich man's gate, full of sores, and begging crumbs while the dogs came and licked his sores. If all this indeed were to be interpreted as a literal narrative, based on what is written here, the only conclusion that we could draw is that beggars and those who have sores, go to heaven.
This is not exegesis this is opinion to support a false narrative. You derive an implication here but fail to the implied sin of omission??

While those wearing fine linen colored purple, or who is rich and has means, are destined for the torment in hades. Of course, that makes no sense, but without a symbolic meaning, this is the only conclusion from the passages that we can reach.
This is an absurd unscriptural conclusion and not the only one that one can reach.

The Bible shows us that many righteous men who were very rich. Righteous Joseph, the son of Israel, held the treasures of the Pharaoh and giving to whom he would, and was arrayed like a royal prince as second man in the realm. Again, righteous Job was God blessed and a God-fearing man, and yet he was also so rich, with as many as 7,000 animals, he was spoken of as the greatest of all the men of the east.
So? This has nothing to do with this story.

Answers these questions , how do you interpret the passages below?


Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The beast and the false prophet are tormented forever those not found in the book of life are sent to the same place!

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

What does "tormented day and night for ever and ever" mean to you ? I take as literal.
 
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Ecc 1:2-4 . . Meaningless! Futile! complains the Teacher. Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless. What does a man gain from all his labor at which he
toils under the sun? Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains
forever.

The earth is dumber than a pizza box; yet easily outlives its human potentate
whose IQ is infinitely greater. Take for example the great granite monuments in
Yosemite Valley. Tourists to the valley come, and tourists to the valley go; and one
day the grim reaper catches up with those tourists and they're gone; yet Yosemite's
great stones abide decade after decade; century after century.

Most children born this day will be dead in 100 years; and Yosemite won't even
notice. Though a child born today may be intelligent enough to eventually
understand quantum mechanics and play classical guitar like Andrés Segovia; yet
Yosemite's sentinels-- stupid, mute, and uneducated - will easily outlast it.


UPDATE: 45 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the OP's figures are in
the ball park, then something like 3,121,380 new arrivals have checked into the fiery
sector of Hades since July 04, 2023.
_
 
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Rev 20:14 . . And death and hell was cast into the lake of fire.

The Greek word translated hell in that verse is haides (a.k.a. hades) which in
Hellenistic philosophy is an afterlife facility where all the dead went: the good dead
as well as the bad dead regardless of age, race, gender, and/or religious
preference.

* The Jews spent some time under the thumb of Greek culture so it's no surprise
they would pick up some of their afterlife terminology.

Anyway by the time of the event depicted by Rev 20:11-15, haides will be empty
and its purpose obsolete having been replaced by the lake of fire.


FAQ: According to Rev 20:14, John saw death discarded in a lake of fire. Well;
death is an abstract. How then can it be spoken of as an object that can be picked
up and thrown like a baseball or a javelin?


REPLY: That passage is likely speaking of death as a category consisting of
everything and anything one can possibly imagine that God considers dead to
Himself, i.e. whatever it is with which and/or with whom, He prefers not to
associate-- including the father of death, i.e. that old dragon the Serpent from back
in the book of Genesis.


UPDATE: 47 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the OP's figures are in
the ball park, then something like 3,260,108 new arrivals have checked into the fiery
sector of Hades since July 04, 2023.
_
 
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Hell is a society where evil is neither discouraged nor restrained; so we have to
expect that when new folks arrive there they will be subjected to discord, hatred,
meanness, factions, cliques, mistrust, prejudice, bias, caste systems, double
standards, partiality, racism, sexism, favoritism, deceit, surmising, dishonesty,
gossip, slander, sarcasm, cynicism, ridicule, envy, rivalry, resentment, gossip,
character assassination, slander, complaining, confrontations, quarrels,
assertiveness, heated debates,

. . . chafing, trickery, grudging, stonewalling, bitterness, silent treatments,
revenge, stubbornness, cold shouldering, snobbery, egotism, dominance,
demeaning comments, pecking orders, gangs, arrogance, attitudes, subterfuge,
treachery, betrayal, suspicion, conceit, vanity, superiority complexes, depression,
melancholy, antisocial behaviors, sociopaths, toxic rejoinders, smart-Alek retorts,
snide remarks, and quite possibly violent brutality so cruel and so terrible that if it
were possible to die from it; they would.


UPDATE: 49 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the OP's figures are in
the ball park, then something like 3,398,836 new arrivals have checked into the fiery
sector of Hades since July 04, 2023.
_
 
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