Grace:

[donadams]

Grace requires works to be fruitful!
Jn 15:1-5 matt 21:43

Lk 8 parable of the sower:
All had faith; are all saved?
Do all bear fruit?

Do all win? 1 cor 9:24

Grace is sufficient for thee.
2 cor 12:9

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Not faith alone! James 2:24
Not works alone!
Not works of the law!

Faith and good works!
Faith working thru love!

Good works:

Prayer, alms, fasting, suffering, sacraments, practice of virtues!

 

[ReverendRV]

Grace requires works to be fruitful!
Jn 15:1-5 matt 21:43

Lk 8 parable of the sower:
All had faith; are all saved?
Do all bear fruit?

Do all win? 1 cor 9:24

Grace is sufficient for thee.
2 cor 12:9

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Not faith alone! James 2:24
Not works alone!
Not works of the law!

Faith and good works!
Faith working thru love!

Good works:

Prayer, alms, fasting, suffering, sacraments, practice of virtues!

This is what the Evangelical believes about Grace and Works...

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. - Ephesians 2:8-10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians2:8-10&version=NIV

Evangelicals believe Works are divided into two Categories, Bad and Good; Pre Justification through Faith Bad Works, and Post Justification through Faith Good Works. We avoid committing the Logical Fallacy of Making a Category Mistake. We believe that if we are Justified in the sight of God through 'Post Justification through Faith Works we're Born Again for', Grace is no longer Grace. Those Works are rerouted from Post Justification through Faith Good Works, back to Pre Justification through Faith Bad Works. Saint James' Justification by Works, is Justification in HIS Sight; not Justification in God's Sight...

We could say the examples of Works which Justify us in the Sight of Saint James, are a Hall of 'Post Justification through Faith' Works. Why? Because they are the same Works, by the same two people, in the Hebrews 11 Hall of Post Justification through Faith. The Theological Conclusion derived, is that Faith Works. Therefore, Saint James is not looking for a different Category of Justification than Saint Paul is looking for in Ephesians 2. Saint James SENT Saint Paul into the Gentile Mission Field; right? Therefore they are in perfect agreement. Saint Paul said we're Created FOR Faithful Good Works; Saint James agrees. Saint James said, if we Keep the Royal Law to Love our Neighbor; we're doing Good...

I'm doing Good Works I was recreated for...

 

[ReverendRV]

Hey Don. The Moderators want you to only Start a New Thread once a day. They will soon enact a Rule limiting how many Threads can be started a day...

Don't worry about not being able to have Fun here. A Thread a Day adds up. Also, you show yourself Posting on existing Threads; so you know you have plenty of places to Post...

CCAM is developing, and is finding out what they like; and don't like as they go. Grow with us...

 

[donadams]

Hey Don. The Moderators want you to only Start a New Thread once a day. They will soon enact a Rule limiting how many Threads can be started a day...

Don't worry about not being able to have Fun here. A Thread a Day adds up. Also, you show yourself Posting on existing Threads; so you know you have plenty of places to Post...

CCAM is developing, and is finding out what they like; and don't like as they go. Grow with us...

It’s all good!

 

[donadams]

Eph 2:8 redemption not salvation:

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

eph 2:8 does not refer to you’re salvation it’s already past tense when Paul wrote it so it refers redemption accomplished by Christ apart from our involvement

Christian faith includes baptism Jn 3:5 by water and the spirit and not faith alone. Mk 16:16 acts 2:38 acts 8:26 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:20-21

And charity 1 cor 13:2 and 1 cor 13/13


Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part!

Justification:
then when we believe in him and his redemption we are justified in that faith and baptism!

Sanctification:
then we are in Christ and his church by grace faith and baptism we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, other sacraments etc.

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation!

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

 

[donadams]

Prayer, alms, fasting, suffering, sacraments, practice of virture!

Add to your faith!

2 Peter 1:5
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; (sound like faith alone to you?)


Salvation is the end of our faith not the beginning.

1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

“Salvation by faith alone is a condemned heresy”!!!

Matt 24:13
Mk 13:13
Heb 3:14



Matt 24:13 he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

“Faith alone” Without Charity?

Deut. 6:5
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

1 cor 13:2 all faith without charity avails nothing.

1 cor 13:12 now abide faith, hope, and charity, and the greatest of these is charity.

If salvation was by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!!!

If we are saved by faith alone then when we first believed we would be saved?

Romans 13:11
…our salvation nearer than when we believed.

James 5:20
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

Thanks

 

[jeremiah1five]

Grace requires works to be fruitful!
Jn 15:1-5 matt 21:43

Lk 8 parable of the sower:
All had faith; are all saved?
Do all bear fruit?

Do all win? 1 cor 9:24

Grace is sufficient for thee.
2 cor 12:9

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Not faith alone! James 2:24
Not works alone!
Not works of the law!

Faith and good works!
Faith working thru love!

Good works:

Prayer, alms, fasting, suffering, sacraments, practice of virtues!

First, The Word of God is written TO and FOR believers ONLY.
Unless indicated the Scripture is addressed to believers in Covenant with God.
Read it in this context. Your quotes about "Grace requires works to be fruitful!" must be taken in context that believers are being addressed and they are ALREADY saved.
Your answer to are they all saved:

9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? 10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. 14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. 15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Lk 8:9–15.

The wayside are not saved.
The rock are saved.
The thorns are saved.
The good ground are saved.

 

[donadams]

First, The Word of God is written TO and FOR believers ONLY.
Unless indicated the Scripture is addressed to believers in Covenant with God.
Read it in this context. Your quotes about "Grace requires works to be fruitful!" must be taken in context that believers are being addressed and they are ALREADY saved.
Your answer to are they all saved:

9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? 10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. 14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. 15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. Lk 8:9–15.

The wayside are not saved.
The rock are saved.
The thorns are saved.
The good ground are saved.

They all had faith?
Faith alone even one tiny little itsy bitsy acts of faith is “eternal salvation “ right?

No one is saved until the end Matt 24:13 Mk 13:13
That part about bringing forth fruit with patience!

Are believers Christian?

The word of God is for all men

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Or
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Or
Mark 1:15
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Only The apostolic church has custody of scripture not believers

Only the church can say what is and what is not scripture

The church alone can give authentic interpretation cos the church wrote it (NT) under the authority of Christ and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit,

 

[jeremiah1five]

They all had faith?
Faith alone even one tiny little itsy bitsy acts of faith is “eternal salvation “ right?

No one is saved until the end Matt 24:13 Mk 13:13
That part about bringing forth fruit with patience!

Are believers Christian?

The word of God is for all men

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Or
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Or
Mark 1:15
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Only The apostolic church has custody of scripture not believers

Only the church can say what is and what is not scripture

The church alone can give authentic interpretation cos the church wrote it (NT) under the authority of Christ and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit,

QUOTE: They all had faith?
Faith alone even one tiny little itsy bitsy acts of faith is “eternal salvation “ right?
RESPONSE: Not all.

QUOTE:No one is saved until the end Matt 24:13 Mk 13:13
That part about bringing forth fruit with patience!
RESPONSE: Having the doctrine of salvation/atonement correctly understood is that true regeneration of a person is the Ministry of the Holy Spirit on the earth today. It was only Noah that was in Covenant with God at the time of the flood. His family was "saved" from the flood not from sin (salvation). Noah found grace, not his wife, not his sons nor their wives.

QUOTE: Are believers Christian?
RESPONSE: Preferably, all Christians are believers. No one can be Christian without Christ:

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom. 8:9.

QUOTE: The word of God is for all men
RESPONSE: Not true. Is there ANY book or epistle of the Scripture addressed to the world (all men?)
There are none. The Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets are written by believers in Covenant with God TO and FOR other believers in Covenant with God.

QUOTE: Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Or
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Or
Mark 1:15
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
RESPONSE: OK. I see the Scripture. What's your position?

QUOTE: Only The apostolic church has custody of scripture not believers
RESPONSE: I have custody of the Scriptures thanks to true Christians who were decapitated and burned at the stake by the Roman Catholic Church employees.

QUOTE: Only the church can say what is and what is not scripture
RESPONSE: I agree. I am the Church. I am "ekklēsia." I am "called out."

QUOTE: The church alone can give authentic interpretation cos the church wrote it (NT) under the authority of Christ and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit,
RESPONSE: The TRUE universal Church consists of all believers of whom the Holy Spirit has saved and whose names are written in the book of life of the Lamb. And under authority of King [James] we have the English translation of the scrolls and Greek texts preserved from the first century and from the theft and mutilation of the RCC who killed Christians to try and stop a Christian having His Word for individual consumption with guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Tell me, have you ever had the Holy Spirit speak to you through the Vulgate and actually hear the voice of God?
Well, I heard the actual voice of God speak to me through the King James Version. Thrice.

 

[civic]

Prayer, alms, fasting, suffering, sacraments, practice of virture!

Add to your faith!

2 Peter 1:5
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; (sound like faith alone to you?)


Salvation is the end of our faith not the beginning.

1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

“Salvation by faith alone is a condemned heresy”!!!

Matt 24:13
Mk 13:13
Heb 3:14



Matt 24:13 he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

“Faith alone” Without Charity?

Deut. 6:5
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

1 cor 13:2 all faith without charity avails nothing.

1 cor 13:12 now abide faith, hope, and charity, and the greatest of these is charity.

If salvation was by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!!!

If we are saved by faith alone then when we first believed we would be saved?

Romans 13:11
…our salvation nearer than when we believed.

James 5:20
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

Thanks

Salvation like sanctification has a past, present and future aspect to it- you have focused on the future and left out the past and present.

Scripture says the following regarding salvation. There is a past aspect, a present aspect and a future aspect to our salvation.

Past
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. cf Acts 15:11; Ephesians 2:5

Present
1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. cf Acts 2:47; 2 Corinthians 2:15

Future
Romans 5:9
having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

hope this helps!!!

 

[makesends]

QUOTE: They all had faith?
Faith alone even one tiny little itsy bitsy acts of faith is “eternal salvation “ right?
RESPONSE: Not all.

Salvific faith is the work of the Holy Spirit within the regenerated person. Thus, it is not a matter of the measure of faith, but the integrity of whatever measure of it, that saves.

QUOTE:No one is saved until the end Matt 24:13 Mk 13:13
That part about bringing forth fruit with patience!
RESPONSE: Having the doctrine of salvation/atonement correctly understood is that true regeneration of a person is the Ministry of the Holy Spirit on the earth today. It was only Noah that was in Covenant with God at the time of the flood. His family was "saved" from the flood not from sin (salvation). Noah found grace, not his wife, not his sons nor their wives.

Everyone that is saved, is saved to the end. God does not choose someone, then change his mind, and go to plan B, as though he didn't know what was coming up when he made plan A.

QUOTE: The word of God is for all men
RESPONSE: Not true. Is there ANY book or epistle of the Scripture addressed to the world (all men?)
There are none. The Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets are written by believers in Covenant with God TO and FOR other believers in Covenant with God.

What does "IS FOR" mean here? The Scripture is applicable to absolutely everyone and everything.

 

[jeremiah1five]

What does "IS FOR" mean here? The Scripture is applicable to absolutely everyone and everything.

Is that why the Law was written by a Covenant believer [Moses] TO and FOR other Covenant believers identified as the twelve tribes of ISRAEL?
Is that why the Psalms were written by other Covenant believers [David, Solomon, Asaph, etc.], TO and FOR other Covenant believers called the twelve tribes of ISRAEL?
Is that why God sent Covenant believers called prophets TO and FOR other Covenant believers called the twelve tribes of ISRAEL AND JUDAH?

Is that why ALL epistles written by Covenant believers [Paul, Peter, James, John, etc.] were written to other fellow-Covenant believers called the CHURCH at Corinth, the CHURCH at Philippi, the CHURCH at Ephesus, etc?

The Word of God called the Scriptures were ALL addressed to and for Covenant believers.

ALL OF THEM.

They were not addressed to the world. This is self-evident if you take a closer look.

 

[makesends]

They were not addressed to the world. This is self-evident if you take a closer look.

I didn't say they were addressed to the world. I'm saying they apply to the world. The world cannot escape the facts written therein. It does deal with the lost and the reprobate, and addresses their nature, their situation and their end.

 

[Manfred]

Grace requires works to be fruitful!
Jn 15:1-5 matt 21:43

Lk 8 parable of the sower:
All had faith; are all saved?
Do all bear fruit?

Do all win? 1 cor 9:24

Grace is sufficient for thee.
2 cor 12:9

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Not faith alone! James 2:24
Not works alone!
Not works of the law!

Faith and good works!
Faith working thru love!

Good works:

Prayer, alms, fasting, suffering, sacraments, practice of virtues!

Let me ask you if all of the works you do that you deem to be good please God?
and how do you know?