Good News For Habitual Sinners!!!

[ReverendRV]

David can you clarify this for us. Are you saying a person can be born again and not be saved ?

Thanks

I think he means the New Birth isn't a Sola. I think he's saying the New Birth without Faith, is Dead. Faith without Works, is Dead. The New Birth without the Resurrection, is Dead. Etc...

Hyper Calvinists want to say Election Alone, is enough. They want to say Regeneration Alone, is enough. I'm sure he's not saying the New Birth Alone; is enough...

 

[ChristB4us]

Yes.

OK. Did Peter call them to an altar, or call upon them to be altered? If it is the latter, then it was an "alter" call.

And.....

Hhhmmmm

From hearing the word from Paul, the internal call of the Spirit draws them (call it an alter if you like) and applies the word to the new heart. They have become saved (if you will) while they were standing or sitting hearing the message.

When you see this same Peter preaching the gospel to the Gentiles in how they had received the promise of the Holy Spirit after hearing the words "all who believe in Him shall receive the remission of sins" then what they had asked of the Gentiles afterwards is just a public witness of their new found faith in Jesus Christ in being His disciple by that water baptism. One might see that as an altar call but that is not insinuating that was when they were saved and so neither were the Jews. The altar call does nothing but provide an opportunity for new believers to publicly witness their new faith in Jesus Christ by that water baptism in becoming a disciple of Jesus Christ in following Him by faith.

It has to be the same gospel to the Jews that this same Peter had later preached to the Gentiles for how they both got the remission of sins by believing in Him and the gift of the Holy Ghost as born again of the Spirit.

Some believe water baptism was for the remission of sins but even though John the Baptist's water baptism for the remittance of sins was being done rather than at the Temple, he paved the way for how believing in Jesus Christ is how one receives the remission of sins and the Holy Ghost.

 

[ChristB4us]

I think he means the New Birth isn't a Sola. I think he's saying the New Birth without Faith, is Dead. Faith without Works, is Dead. The New Birth without the Resurrection, is Dead. Etc...

Hyper Calvinists want to say Election Alone, is enough. They want to say Regeneration Alone, is enough. I'm sure he's not saying the New Birth Alone is enough...

You cannot be born again of the Spirit unless you are a believer in Jesus Christ. So something is off here. More clarity is needed.

Being born again of the Spirit is by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ for how we are saved. Jesus told Nicodemus that for how and when a person is born again of the Spirit and that is after His ascension which is after His crucifixion for whenever anyone believes in Him, they have eternal life.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[ReverendRV]

You cannot be born again of the Spirit unless you are a believer in Jesus Christ. So something is off here. More clarity is needed.

Being born again of the Spirit is by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ for how we are saved. Jesus told Nicodemus that for how and when a person is born again of the Spirit and that is after His ascension which is after His crucifixion for whenever anyone believes in Him, they have eternal life.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The difference between you and David is about which side of Faith do you say the New Birth is on? David is Pre Faith, and you are Post Faith...

I agree with David. Jesus said unless you are Born of Water and Spirit (John 3:5; Titus 3:5), you cannot enter the Kingdom of God. We enter the Kingdom of God when we first Believe (John 5:24); we cross over from death to Life when we Believe. Thus we cannot Believe until the Spirit of God Washes us with the Water of Regeneration, and Renews our human spirit by Circumcising our ears and heart. After this, we can enter the Kingdom of God through Fiduciary Belief in the Gospel of Jesus Christ...

We are in the Kingdom of God now; we are Ambassadors of Christ. We enter when we Believe, but we Believe after were Born again...

In Logical Order...

In Temporal Order? They are simultaneous...

 

[ReverendRV]

<snip> Being born again of the Spirit is by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ for how we are saved. Jesus told Nicodemus that for how and when a person is born again of the Spirit and that is after His ascension which is after His crucifixion for whenever anyone believes in Him, they have eternal life. <snip>

Old Covenant New Birth is seen in John 3. Jesus tells Nicodemus they are Born Again when the Spirit comes; then the Spirit leaves without Indwelling...

Much of what the Gospel teaches, needs to be understood as Jesus teaching about the Old Covenant. If the Gospels were the last four Books of the Old Testament, this would be apparent; a Light Bulb moment...

 

[ChristB4us]

The difference between you and David is about which side of Faith do you say the New Birth is on? David is Pre Faith, and you are Post Faith...

I agree with David. Jesus said unless you are Born of Water and Spirit (John 3:5; Titus 3:5), you cannot enter the Kingdom of God. We enter the Kingdom of God when we first Believe (John 5:24); we cross over from death to Life when we Believe. Thus we cannot Believe until the Spirit of God Washes us with the Water of Regeneration, and Renews our human spirit by Circumcising our ears and heart. After this, we can enter the Kingdom of God through Fiduciary Belief in the Gospel of Jesus Christ...

We are in the Kingdom of God now; we are Ambassadors of Christ. We enter when we Believe, but we Believe after were Born again...

In Logical Order...

In Temporal Order? They are simultaneous...

If simultaneous, then there is no before nor after when believing in Him is how one is born again of the Spirit.

The problem here is this call of repentance from sin as in general sin that is put on the sinner to do when it is God the Father that draws us unto the Son; per John 6:44 that reveals His Son to us ( Matthew 11:25-27 ) so we can believe in Him to be saved as our believing in Him is a manifested work of God ( John 3:18-21 ). If they say it is God that turns them away from sin which is what I say also ( Acts 3:26 ) then why say it to the sinner?

Peter's call to repentance to the Jews that had crucified Jesus in unbelief was to believe in Acts 2:36-39 in order to get that remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost. Do note that Peter did not say believe in Jesus Christ for the remission of sins but he said repent & be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost for why some think water baptism was for the remission of sins.

That is what everybody is overlooking here for why i say that repent to the Jews was the call to repent from unbelief by believing in Him because that is what this same Peter said plainly to the Gentiles in Acts 10:43-44 to believe in Him for the remission of sins & yet not one word about "repent".

Peter preached the same gospel to the both of them and so why is repent is said to the Jews, but not believe in Him for the remission of sins and yet this same Peter said believe in Him for the remission of sins to the Gentiles but not one word about repent?

Repent from unbelief by believing in Him is the gospel.

It is not by repenting from all sins or general sin or whatever for why I am pushing for them to change that Statement of faith to believing in Him is how we are born again of the Spirit and not before.

Look at how the Lord led His disciples by the Holy Spirit to where to go for ministry outreach.

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, 7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not. 8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas. 9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us. 10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

So how do you apply what you & @David1701 are saying here? Were they born again of the Spirit for why God told them to go there to preach the gospel? I do not see how.

I say that the Father was drawing them unto the Son John 6:44 for why they are seeking Him and the disciples were sent for the Father to reveal His Son to them through the hearing of the gospel so that by believing in Him, they are saved and thus born again of the Spirit and not before.

 

[ChristB4us]

Old Covenant New Birth is seen in John 3. Jesus tells Nicodemus they are Born Again when the Spirit comes; then the Spirit leaves without Indwelling...

Much of what the Gospel teaches, needs to be understood as Jesus teaching about the Old Covenant. If the Gospels were the last four Books of the Old Testament, this would be apparent; a Light Bulb moment...

I disagree because Jesus told Nicodemus when that born again of the Spirit was to occur and that was after His ascension which is after His crucifixion for whenever anyone believes in Jesus Christ and so the church was born at Pentecost and the Holy Spirit never leaves.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

When Jesus was with His disciples, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit was temporary like in Matthew 10th chapter & John 20:22, but this promise of the permanent indwelling holy Ghost was to be given by the Father when He was no longer present with them.

That is why saved believers are warned not to grieve the Holy Spirit per Ephesians 4:30 because He can't leave when saved believers foolishly sows to the works of the flesh in defiling the temple of God per 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 which is why we should take heed how we build on that foundation which can never be removed but we can miss out on the firstfruits of the resurrection like those who do not look to Him for help to discern the iniquity & to repent will in Revelation 2:18-25

 

[ReverendRV]

I disagree because Jesus told Nicodemus when that born again of the Spirit was to occur and that was after His ascension which is after His crucifixion for whenever anyone believes in Jesus Christ and so the church was born at Pentecost and the Holy Spirit never leaves. <snip>

Are you interested in talking a moment to divide the Word?

In my years of discussion on Forums, I find that most people want to Monologue; and less people want to Debate. Let's talk about Regeneration as described by John 3:5 and Titus 3:5...

First, are the two Verses descibing the same thing?

 

[ChristB4us]

Are you interested in talking a moment to divide the Word?

In my years of discussion on Forums, I find that most people want to Monologue; and less people want to Debate. Let's talk about Regeneration as described by John 3:5 and Titus 3:5...

First, are the two Verses descibing the same thing?

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Not exactly. I see Jesus referring to born of water as natural birth for how Jews are born into the kingdom of God which was Israel. But I see Him using born of the Spirit portion of what Jesus is saying and Titus 3:5 as describing the same thing as below.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Now; for addressing that one that is born again is not necessarily meaning they are saved yet, let me ask you what these verses are saying?

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Note how the fruit is singular as testifying when you have the Holy Spirit, you have all of those divine qualities.

Are the scripture saying that the Father Whom gives us the Holy Spirit that enables us to believe in Jesus Christ having that faith when that faith & that holy Spirit came by from hearing the word of God?

Is that not why the Holy Spirit will convict sinners for not believing in Jesus Christ John 16:7-11 because they resisted believing the holy Spirit as in resisting receiving faith as that fruit of the Spirit at the hearing of the gospel as that is the unforgivable sin?

Is that why in Acts 8:12-16 for why those Samaritans that were baptized in Jesus's name believing the things that Philip preached about but did not believe in Jesus Christ yet because they did not receive the Holy Spirit yet and thus did not have faith in Jesus Christ for how they were following Philip around out of fandom in beholding all the miracles seemingly performed by Philip ( when in actuality it was done by the Lord )?

I believe when we accept that truth for how faith came & how the Holy Spirit came as simultaneous for how we are saved, then David's comment about how one is not necessarily saved when they are born again is denying by how that faith & thus believing in Him came.

 

[ReverendRV]

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Not exactly. I see Jesus referring to born of water as natural birth for how Jews are born into the kingdom of God which was Israel. But I see Him using born of the Spirit portion of what Jesus is saying and Titus 3:5 as describing the same thing as below.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Now; for addressing that one that is born again is not necessarily meaning they are saved yet, let me ask you what these verses are saying?

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Note how the fruit is singular as testifying when you have the Holy Spirit, you have all of those divine qualities.

Are the scripture saying that the Father Whom gives us the Holy Spirit that enables us to believe in Jesus Christ having that faith when that faith & that holy Spirit came by from hearing the word of God?

Is that not why the Holy Spirit will convict sinners for not believing in Jesus Christ John 16:7-11 because they resisted believing the holy Spirit as in resisting receiving faith as that fruit of the Spirit at the hearing of the gospel as that is the unforgivable sin?

Is that why in Acts 8:12-16 for why those Samaritans that were baptized in Jesus's name believing the things that Philip preached about but did not believe in Jesus Christ yet because they did not receive the Holy Spirit yet and thus did not have faith in Jesus Christ for how they were following Philip around out of fandom in beholding all the miracles seemingly performed by Philip ( when in actuality it was done by the Lord )?

I believe when we accept that truth for how faith came & how the Holy Spirit came as simultaneous for how we are saved, then David's comment about how one is not necessarily saved when they are born again is denying by how that faith & thus believing in Him came.

I'll get back to this later. Forgive me for asking you to continue. I am focussing on Eschatology at the moment; reading resources...

 

[ChristB4us]

I'll get back to this later. Forgive me for asking you to continue. I am focusing on Eschatology at the moment; reading resources...

You are forgiven if you felt the need for one but I did address your questions about those verses and then asked you about a couple of my references & what it mean.

I believe I was following your format for a discussion albeit I did state a conclusion at the end of the post regarding @David1701 's comment.

God be willing, you may get back to it sooner if not later, but mayhap David may address the rebuttal with one of his own by scripture.

John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
Hopefully, members will stop seeing me as nit picking or grandstanding but rather the Lord sharpening one another by the scripture.

I learned more in this discussion in how the Father is responsible for us believing in Jesus Christ by sending the Holy Spirit after us hearing the gospel for how we believe in Jesus Christ and so it is simultaneous that "faith" came and the "Holy Spirit" came by hearing the word of God.

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

 

[David1701]

Are you getting this from that Early & Latter Rain teaching that is going on over the internet in Christian forums? Just a yes or no shall suffice.

<sigh>
No, I do not subscribe to the "early and latter rain" teaching.

Being born again of the Spirit is by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ for how we are saved. Jesus told Nicodemus that for how and when a person is born again of the Spirit and that is after His ascension which is after His crucifixion for whenever anyone believes in Him, they have eternal life.

No! You are born again, then (immediately), as a consequence of your new heart/spirit, you believe in Jesus Christ and are saved.

You are completely wrong about what Jesus told Nicodemus. Just read it as it is written, without prejudicial glasses on. Jesus told Nicodemus that you (plural) must be born again, in order to see and enter the kingdom of God. He also said, "...are you the teacher of Israel, yet you do not know these things?"; in other words, if you had known the OT well, then you would have known about the need to be born again.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So I do not know where you get that line of thinking from but clearly I can see Jesus's refuting it. Hope you see that too.

What I see, clearly, is that you are confused. You appear to be reading the Bible through some kind of perception-distorting glasses.

 

[ReverendRV]

You are forgiven if you felt the need for one but I did address your questions about those verses and then asked you about a couple of my references & what it mean. <snip>

I'm back...

You should know how I am by now; I like things one point at a time. For instance, if I think your point B is wrong, it follows that all the points after it are Moot. I'm not saying your Point B was wrong; I'm just explaining myself...

So; would you agree that Titus 3;5 and John 3, are the clearest instances in the Bible that teach us about the New Birth?

I know many who will agree with you that Regeneration Logically occurs after Faith; but it's also true they believe these two Verses/Passages are about the same Topic...

 

[David1701]

If simultaneous, then there is no before nor after when believing in Him is how one is born again of the Spirit.

Do you understand the difference between logical order and temporal order?

 

[ChristB4us]

<sigh>
No, I do not subscribe to the "early and latter rain" teaching.

Thanks for answering that inquiry.

No! You are born again, then, as a consequence of your new heart/spirit, you believe in Jesus Christ and are saved.

Not sure why you seem to believe that when one is born again of the Spirit, that it does not necessarily mean they are saved. That was why I had inquired if you were coming off of that Early & Latter Rain theology but you had answered that this was not where you were coming from as they believe one can be saved, then lose salvation at the beginning and then saved again supposedly for the final time, permanently ( providing I understood correctly what those members were peddling in Delphi Christian forums )

You are completely wrong about what Jesus told Nicodemus. Just read it as it is written, without prejudicial glasses on. Jesus told Nicodemus that you (plural) must be born again, in order to see and enter the kingdom of God. He also said, "...are you the teacher of Israel, yet you do not know these things?"; in other words, if you had known the OT well, then you would have known about the need to be born again.

What I see, clearly, is that you are confused. You appear to be reading the Bible through some kind of perception-distorting glasses.

Well, I am learning more from the Lord in our discussion if you will note that in the other replies I had tagged you in after that post about how faith came from hearing the word of God and the Holy Spirit came on the Gentiles by what they had heard and so combining the two verses as faith is a fruit of the Spirit, then by hearing the word of God is how faith & the Holy spirit came and so those born again of the Spirit are saved because they have that fruit of the Spirit of faith for how they believe in Jesus Christ.

So there is no way a person born again of the Spirit does not believe in Jesus Christ for they are saved by faith in Jesus Christ as evidence that the Holy Spirit is in them for how they believe as given by the Father to the Son to save.

 

[ChristB4us]

I'm back...

You should know how I am by now; I like things one point at a time. For instance, if I think your point B is wrong, it follows that all the points after it are Moot. I'm not saying your Point B was wrong; I'm just explaining myself...

So; would you agree that Titus 3;5 and John 3, are the clearest instances in the Bible that teach us about the New Birth?

I know many who will agree with you that Regeneration Logically occurs after Faith; but it's also true they believe these two Verses/Passages are about the same Topic...

Well if you are going to snip

Do you believe by John 3:5 that water baptism is necessary for the born again of the Spirit moment of salvation if that is how you are applying John 3:5 to mean with Titus 3:5?

I have to understand how you are applying those two references to mean together.

 

[ReverendRV]

Well if you are going to snip

Do you believe by John 3:5 that water baptism is necessary for the born again of the Spirit moment of salvation if that is how you are applying John 3:5 to mean with Titus 3:5?

I have to understand how you are applying those two references to mean together.

Fair enough...

No, I disagree that Water Baptism is necessary for anyone to be Born Again in the Temporal Order of Justification; I'm a Baptist. I accept what Jesus said in John 5:24 about crossing from Death to Life when we Believe. But I would say my answering your question about what I believe concerning something else, distracts us from you answering my question; which is 'Do you believe the two Verses/Passages I mentioned, are explaining the same Topic of the New Birth?'...

You will also notice I am a Poster who answers questions, but always returns to my question. I notice when people seem to want to change the Subject. I'm not accusing you; i'm just explaining myself...

 

[ChristB4us]

Do you understand the difference between logical order and temporal order?

Do you understand how a believer can oppose himself? Think of an example in how you tried to show that to those that oppose themselves and see if I am not doing the same thing with you.

You cannot have contrary statements that run against scripture.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

You cannot say one that is born again is not necessarily saved.

 

[ReverendRV]

Do you understand how a believer can oppose himself? Think of an example in how you tried to show that to those that oppose themselves and see if I am not doing the same thing with you.

You cannot have contrary statements that run against scripture.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

You cannot say one that is born again is not necessarily saved.

Hey buddy, I would suggest that if you want Posters to engage you; don't be so inflexible...

Please do not be here to cause someone to get angry. That's like the number one thing I'm looking to Moderate here at CCAM. The Rules say the Moderator's opinion of what a Violation could be, may differ from what the Moderated Poster thinks. I'm not saying you are doing this; I'm just explaining myself...

 

[ChristB4us]

Fair enough...

No, I disagree that Water Baptism is necessary for anyone to be Born Again in the Temporal Order of Justification; I'm a Baptist. I accept what Jesus said in John 5:24 about crossing from Death to Life when we Believe. But I would say my answering your question about what I believe concerning something else, distracts us from you answering my question; which is 'Do you believe the two Verses/Passages I mentioned, are explaining the same Topic of the New Birth?'...

Well in light of your clarification, now that water baptism is out of the way because some do apply both of those verses to that end;...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Just by reading these two verses, it is about the New Birth but the verses does not say how or when.

You will also notice I am a Poster who answers questions, but always returns to my question. I notice when people seem to want to change the Subject. I'm not accusing you; i'm just explaining myself...

The point of my references was in light of your questions but in answering the how and when that new birth occurs by the hearing of the word of God is how faith & the Holy Spirit is received for how any of us believe in Jesus Christ therefore a manifested work of the Father in giving us to the Son to save us. That is why those who believe need not look for a sign of having received the Holy Spirit because they had when they believe.