GOD CREATED MAN (ADAM) SINFUL

[Carbon]

So sin comes from good?
It would be more reasonable if sin came from evil.

Are you not familiar with the creation story?

 

[civic]

So sin comes from good?
It would be more reasonable if sin came from evil.

no sin comes from disobedience to God. that resulted in death, condemnation, suffering, pain, seperation from God, etc......... none of which were " good " and none of which were part of creation.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Explain:

• Psalm 51:5 I was brought forth in [a state of] wickedness; In sin my mother conceived me [and from my beginning I, too, was sinful].
• And Psalm 58:3
• and Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners;

SO the Bible LIES (Deut 24:16, 1 Kings 14:6, 2 Chr 25:4)) when it teaches that we only die because of our OWN SIN, and Babies that die to soon (or are murdered in utero) are all automatically incinerated.

 

[Eleanor]

Adam was a natural earthy man 1 Cor 15:45-49
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

I dont believe that, and i dont see any biblical reason why you would say something like that.

The re-birth by the Holy Spirit is a second birth into a life Adam formerly had and lost in the fall; i.e., God's divine eternal life within Adam's immoral spirit, and now we are born without it, in spiritual death (which is not death of the immortal human spirit, but absence of divine eternal life within the immortal human spirit).
That divine eternal life of God is re-imparted to the human spirit in the re-birth (born again) by the Holy Spirit.

The human soul and human spirit do not occur separately in the NT, they are always together in the human person until death.
They share some of the same functions (emotion, rejoicing), and can only be distinguished there, not separated.

In reference to your Scripture above: in context of the resurrection and the resurrection body in 1 Co 15:35-58 and the contrast between the natural (sinful) and the spiritual (sinless) material body in the two Adam's, where

the first Adam had a natural body from the dust of the ground (Ge 2:7), and through whom a natural body is given to his descendants, and
the second (last) Adam, Christ, the life-giving spirit (Jn 5:26), who through his death and resurrection will at the second coming, give his redeemed people a spiritual body--physical, yet imperishable, without corruption, and adaptable to live with God forever (Php 3:21),

it does not relate to our new birth, but to our two different bodies, pre- and post-resurrection.

 

[Deleted member 6]

No, the BIBLE doesn't LIE (which is a silly non sequitur defense). THOSE texts are TALKING about PERSONAL sins AFTER the FALL and their CONSEQUENCES.

There is this THING called CONTEXT and being ABLE to use LOGIC to not make CATEGORY ERRORS as YOU are DOING.

THIS post WILL PReach!!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

No, the BIBLE doesn't LIE (which is a silly non sequitur defense). THOSE texts are TALKING about PERSONAL sins AFTER the FALL and their CONSEQUENCES.

There is this THING called CONTEXT and being ABLE to use LOGIC to not make CATEGORY ERRORS as YOU are DOING.

Ah, as expected, the usual theological rationalization to get around what the Bible says, and reinforce the chosen theological paradigm.

"THE FALL" was a "Personal sin" on the part of two humans.

"THE FALL" resulted in TWO THINGS being cursed: the serpent, and the EARTH. ADAM AND HIS WIFE were not cursed, BUT THEY DID INSTANTLY DIE SPIRITUALLY, after they threw God under the bus, and chose their own LUST (satan's way) instead (following the temptation sequence in James 1 perfectly). Their HUMAN NATURE never changed, only their "Spiritual status", and their Environment.

But YOU insist that I'll die for Adam's SIN, even though the Bible teaches that I won't. Guess who I'll believe.

OF COURSE Eve's sin was "original" (since it was the first one) followed by Adam's.

 

[Eleanor]

Where did Adam's sin come from? Since it was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, did his sin come from his good or evil?

To eat of the tree what to know good from evil in the consequences of it.

 

[Eleanor]

So sin comes from holy, then.

He became holy again like God?
But he wasn't eternal, wasn't any of the other Deific Attributes of God and that means he was fallen SHORT of the glory of God who IS eternal, IS Righteous, IS Omniscient, IS Omnipresent, IS Omnipotent, IS All-Wise, IS All-Knowledgeable, IS All EVERYTHING that is God.
One cannot possess ONLY ONE Deific Attribute of God as he would STILL be fallen short of the rest of the glory of God.
I think you need this post to help you think this through and come to some sound understanding.
Sin does not come from holy.
Sin comes from sinner.

Sin comes from an option.

 

[fastfredy0]

SO the Bible LIES

This is a false premise

Your changing the subject. You said:

TOTALLY WRONG!!!! Everybody is only responsible for THEIR OWN SIN. Adam "imputed" NOTHING.

I responded that Adam did impute something and listed Psalm 51:5, Psalm 58:3 and Romans 5:19 as proof.

Your verses have nothing to due with the subject which is imputation of sin of Adam.

Note: Preacher pointed out this inconsistency in your argument too. See below:

No, the BIBLE doesn't LIE (which is a silly non sequitur defense). THOSE texts are TALKING about PERSONAL sins AFTER the FALL and their CONSEQUENCES.

There is this THING called CONTEXT and being ABLE to use LOGIC to not make CATEGORY ERRORS as YOU are DOING.

 

[Eleanor]

Not necessary to imputate Adam's sin to all mankind when Adam had a sin-ful human nature that was passed on to his children through childbirth.

Scripture does not say anything about necessary.

It simply reports the fact thereof ( Ro 5:12-14).

Adam had divine eternal life within his immortal spirit?
Then why prevent him from eating the Tree of Life to allow him to live forever?

Eternal life is not just about living forever. It is also about the quality of the life.

22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Gen. 3:21–22.

 

[fastfredy0]

Ah, as expected, the usual theological rationalization to get around what the Bible says, and reinforce the chosen theological paradigm.

LOL ... a lot of impressive words and yet you did not address the simple task of staying on topic. You said man is only responsible for his own sins and not for the sins of Adam. Then you went off on a tangent.

Adam did impute something per Psalm 51:5, Psalm 58:3 and Romans 5:19 as proof. You won't address the topic.

 

[Eleanor]

This is the Achilles’ heel of Christianity .... does hard determinism supply an answer?

From a corruptible nature.

Problem?

 

[Eleanor]

So it was the act of sin that made him a sinner?
How does that fly with regard to imputation?
Did Christ die for the acts of sin?

Why doesn't it fly with imputation?
It looks up all men in sin from birth.

 

[civic]

@jeremiah1five



Sin is not a thing. It is not external. It does not come from anywhere.
Evil is nothing. It is not a thing that has existence. It is an action of something that is a thing. When I do something that is not good, then I am doing something that is evil, but evil then is an activity of some being. It has no being of itself. In biblical terms, evil is defined by words like ungodliness, unrighteousness, injustice, so that the term is used as the negation, the opposite of the positive thing that is being affirmed. Author Unknown

_______________________________
Two Aspects of the Problem Source: https://www.str.org/articles/augustine-on-evil
The problem of evil can be phrased in several ways. One approach addresses the origin of evil, prompting the syllogism:
1) God created all things;
2) evil is a thing;
3) therefore, God created evil. If the first two premises are true, the conclusion is inescapable.
This formulation, if sustained, is devastating for Christianity. God would not be good if He knowingly created evil.

Augustine realized that the solution was tied to the question: What is evil? The argument above depends on the idea that evil is a thing (note the second premise). But what if evil is not a "thing" in that sense? Then evil did not need creating. If so, our search for the source of evil will take us in a another direction.
Augustine approached the problem from a different angle. He asked: Do we have any convincing evidence that a good God exists? If independent evidence leads us to conclude that God exists and is good, then He would be incapable of creating evil. Something else, then, must be its source.
If Augustine's approach is fair, it prompts a pair of syllogisms that lead to a different conclusion.

First:
1) All things that God created are good;
2) evil is not good;
3) therefore, evil was not created by God.

Second:
1) God created everything;
2) God did not create evil;
3) therefore, evil is not a thing.

The key to success here, is the truthfulness of two premises. If Augustine can offer evidence through natural theology that God exists as Creator and also that God is good, making everything He created also good, then the conclusion--evil is not a thing--automatically follows.

ditto

 

[fastfredy0]

From a corruptible nature.

Problem?

???? not sure of the context of your statement. I stated that "The origin of evil has been called the Achilles’ heel of Christianity".

 

[Eleanor]

TOTALLY WRONG!!!! Everybody is only responsible for THEIR OWN SIN. Adam "imputed" NOTHING. If you read your scripture WITH UNDERSTANDING you'll see that it's our OWN SIN that condemns us.

Of course Adam imputed nothing.
Only God imputes, and he imputed Adam's sin to all those born of Adam (Ro 5:12-14), just as he imputes Christ's righteousness to all those born of Christ (Ro 5:18-19).

Play nice. . .

 

[Deleted member 6]

Of course Adam imputed nothing.
Only God imputes, and he imputed Adam' sin to all those born of Adam, just as he imputes Christ's righteousness to all those born of Christ (Ro 5:18-19).

Play nice. . .

And that’s why babies in the womb, and even after birth, die before committing the first personal sin. The wages of sin is death….

 

[ReverendRV]

Of course Adam imputed nothing.
Only God imputes, and he imputed Adam's sin to all those born of Adam (Ro 5:12-14), just as he imputes Christ's righteousness to all those born of Christ (Ro 5:18-19).

Play nice. . .

That was going to be my next point; as I inch-along like an Inch Worm. God found Adam and Eve hiding, put them on Trial, Condemned them; and Cursed them...

This is when Imputation of Sin began. They were Innocent until Proven Guilty...

 

[Eleanor]

That was going to be my next point; as I inch-along like an Inch Worm. God found Adam and Eve hiding, put them on Trial, Condemned them; and Cursed them...

This is when Imputation of Sin began. They were Innocent until Proven Guilty...

Oops! Sorry about that.

Continue with the inching.

Was not the trial (not as in court, but as in testing) before the hiding?

 

[jeremiah1five]

That was going to be my next point; Sin wasn't Imputed to Adam through Eve eating the Fruit. Eve was Deceived, and Adam chose to eat with her...

What's at the heart of your clinging to their Sinfulness before they Sinned?

Sin comes from sinner.

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Sa 24:12–13.

Adam sinned. Therefore, Adam was a sinner.