FOR or BECAUSE OF the forgiveness of your sins, (Acts 2:38)

[JesusFan]

Yes I totally agree I never said differently but that happens in the baptism in the name Of Jesus Christ see Romans 6

No, ask the thief upon that Cross

 

[John Bauer]

MODERATOR WARNING:

There are a lot of personal attacks happening in this thread. I am stepping in to police this thread
very closely and ensure that rules-violations cease henceforth. Any further violations will be summarily
edited out and warning points issued.

Any discussion of this moderation announcement or action would also be a violation (rule 6.3) and
summarily removed with warning points issued.

​

 

[BillyBob65]

I answered Gods position. As I stated He is not bound.
For he says to Moses: “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. it does not depend on human desire or exertion but on God who shows mercy.

You won't answer the question because your position means unbaptized babies who die won't go to heaven.

I think the topic is moot anyway. I don't know anyone who proclaims faith in Christ who hasn't been baptized or is seeking baptism some even go more than once.

I was baptized as an infant and did not receive the inward gift of the Spirit at that baptism but later in life when I asked for that gift as one calling on the Lord. And I kept asking and wasn't going to let go of the Lord until He blessed me. It wasn't until I felt the presence of the Spirit in my being that I stopped asking. As I read, "whoever calls on the Lord will be saved."

This is what Jesus stated:

John 11:26

I did answer your question. [Some content removed by moderator.] Thank you for your input and you have a very blessed life.

 

[BillyBob65]

No, ask the thief upon that Cross

Just a fair question. What side of the cross did the thief die? When did the new covenant begin before or after the cross?

 

[Paul]

Just a fair question. What side of the cross did the thief die? When did the new covenant begin before or after the cross?

You are looking at the wrong thing. Jesus saw the man's FAITH in Him. The authority to forgive sin still rests with Jesus then and now.
Whoever calls on the Lord will be saved.

Saved by grace through FAITH and this not of ourselves.

 

[Paul]

You are not rightly dividing the word of truth. The new covenant and the plan to enter did not happen until after the cross. The bible teaches that God starts adding to the church in Acts 2 and tells how there. We are added the same as those in Acts 2 following. You have to rightly divide the word. Untill you do you can't get the truth of the word

Again I suggest to you its about the forgiveness of sins not what you state.

Acts 2:38​

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

As in is the physical symbol of baptism required for the Spiritual reality even though it is shown together.

From the Net bible notes: They use "FOR"
Acts 2:38 is saying very little about the specific theological relationship between the symbol and the reality, only that historically they were viewed together. One must look in other places for a theological analysis.

 

[John Bauer]

The new covenant and the plan to enter …

What does that mean, “the plan to enter”?

The Bible teaches that God starts adding to the church in Acts 2 …

You added the word “starts” to the text. It is not there. In Acts 2 we find that God added “about three thousand people” to the church, and that “the Lord was adding to their number every day those who were being saved,” but not that this is when he started doing it.

 

[BillyBob65]

Again I suggest to you its about the forgiveness of sins not what you state.

Acts 2:38​

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

As in is the physical symbol of baptism required for the Spiritual reality even though it is shown together.

From the Net bible notes: They use "FOR"
Acts 2:38 is saying very little about the specific theological relationship between the symbol and the reality, only that historically they were viewed together. One must look in other places for a theological analysis.

I I did look elsewhere in the Bible it told me itself that four was meaning to wash away sins in Acts 22:16 Paul shows that it was you to go outside the Bible to find a way to discredit it but the Bible will speak and answer your questions just let it

 

[BillyBob65]

What does that mean, “the plan to enter”?



You added the word “starts” to the text. It is not there. In Acts 2 we find that God added “about three thousand people” to the church, and that “the Lord was adding to their number every day those who were being saved,” but not that this is when he started doing it.

I am away on my phone right now I cannot respond to this that good on my phone so when I get back home to my laptop I will respond to this later thank you

 

[Paul]

I I did look elsewhere in the Bible it told me itself that four was meaning to wash away sins in Acts 22:16 Paul shows that it was you to go outside the Bible to find a way to discredit it but the Bible will speak and answer your questions just let it

In my bible the authority to forgive sin rests with Jesus then and now. Jesus-"your faith has saved you".

I believe if someone believes in their heart and is baptized they will be saved.

I believe if someone believes in their heart and calls on the Lord they will be saved.

The common thread is "Faith"

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9;not by works, so that no one can boast.

like the man on the cross
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

Nothing is hidden from the Lord. He knows who loves and believes in Him.
And the inward gift of the Spirit is a judgment He makes in our favor and its forever. As in appointed to eternal life. We are chosen. As is stated many are invited but few are chosen.

I state it again I'm not against baptism but for it. But the Key that opens the door appears to me is faith. God grants the repentance beforehand in the believer not the physical symbol of water. No one turns from the world to God apart from God's grace of repentance.

 

[BillyBob65]

What does that mean, “the plan to enter”?



You added the word “starts” to the text. It is not there. In Acts 2 we find that God added “about three thousand people” to the church, and that “the Lord was adding to their number every day those who were being saved,” but not that this is when he started doing it.

The plan to enter is short cut for the gospel message and the required response to the gospel call that put one in the new covenant God has made with man. You can see it play out in Acts 2 when the doors to the church opened for the first time (the kingdom to come did come). There you see the gospel was preached they believed the gospel and ask how to respond to the gospel call and was told to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the emission of sin and they shall receive the gift of the holy ghost. Then God added to the church those that were being saved.

You said " but not that this is when he started doing it " that is the whole point of the chapter. It is when the doors to the church was opened for the first time. It is the recorded record of when the kingdom that was to come did actually come and the covenant was put in place. I really am surprised I have to explain this. I thought this was elementary to Christianity that all who has faith understands when the doors to the church opened for the first time. Your not understanding this basic fact really does say alot.

 

[BillyBob65]

In my bible the authority to forgive sin rests with Jesus then and now. Jesus-"your faith has saved you".

I believe if someone believes in their heart and is baptized they will be saved.

I believe if someone believes in their heart and calls on the Lord they will be saved.

The common thread is "Faith"

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9;not by works, so that no one can boast.

like the man on the cross
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

Nothing is hidden from the Lord. He knows who loves and believes in Him.
And the inward gift of the Spirit is a judgment He makes in our favor and its forever. As in appointed to eternal life. We are chosen. As is stated many are invited but few are chosen.

I state it again I'm not against baptism but for it. But the Key that opens the door appears to me is faith. God grants the repentance beforehand in the believer not the physical symbol of water. No one turns from the world to God apart from God's grace of repentance.

I believe if someone believes in their heart and calls on the Lord they will be saved.

I also believe this as well and I see in Acts 22:16 just how Paul says one calls upon the name of the Lord so yes I agree with this statement.

I believe if someone believes in their heart and is baptized they will be saved.

I also believe this for I read this in scripture as well in Act 2 and Mark 16:18 as well as other scriptures.

I do not deny that the common thread is Faith for with out faith it is impossible to please God but faith is active it is belief in all God has said for his words are truth and LIFE in his words we find the way to salvation by his will that he has given.

Yes God has told us how to become children of his it is by hearing the gospel and submitting to the call as directed in scripture

Yes I believe " Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die" To believe means to believe all the words of God as recorded for they are what gives life.

Again I have explained how you are not giving the full context of Eph. 2:8 go back to that post and see

Jesus is not here today to forgive sin as he did with the thief on the cross. Jesus has left his plan to save man today it is recorded in Acts 2 and it is the only way now that salvation is received

The indwelling spirit is recorded in Gods word as being given after one has believed repented and been baptized in Christ name see Acts 2:38 please read the scriptures and take them at their word for they are the words to the new life.

Again I am asking you to reconsider what the scriptures really are saying and not be unwilling to check your belief for error.

Remember the scriptures are what gives the new life for they record Gods plan for salvation and must all harmonize which they do if we let them.

 

[Arial]

There you see the gospel was preached they believed the gospel and ask how to respond to the gospel call and was told to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the emission of sin and they shall receive the gift of the holy ghost. Then God added to the church those that were being saved.

Acts 1: 4 And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, “you heard from me; 5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized wit the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Jesus makes a clear distinction between being baptized with the Holy Spirit and with being baptized with water. The Holy Spirit baptism is superior to John's baptism. John's baptism has been explained to you and ignored. There is an entire thread titled The Baptism of John if you need to review it. If Johns baptism could not remit sins but only showed a wilingness to turn back to God, neither can baptism in Jesus' name remit sins. It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves. It is the new birth of John 3, also explained to you and simply twisted to fit your false teaching.

Acts 1:15 In those days Peter stood up among the brothers (the company of persons was in all about 120) and said,

There were 120 persons in that room at Pentecost.

Acts 2

When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

None of them were Baptized, not even Peter. Are your going to consider those scriptures that are all in the context in which you pull your one scripture out of? If you don't and just repeat yourself, your post will be deleted. It is time you started posting in good faith and according the rules. I suggest it is time you read them so you will know how to post correctly.

 

[Paul]

I also believe this as well and I see in Acts 22:16 just how Paul says one calls upon the name of the Lord so yes I agree with this statement.
I also believe this for I read this in scripture as well in Act 2 and Mark 16:18 as well as other scriptures.

I do not deny that the common thread is Faith for with out faith it is impossible to please God but faith is active it is belief in all God has said for his words are truth and LIFE in his words we find the way to salvation by his will that he has given.

Yes God has told us how to become children of his it is by hearing the gospel and submitting to the call as directed in scripture

Yes I believe " Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die" To believe means to believe all the words of God as recorded for they are what gives life.

Again I have explained how you are not giving the full context of Eph. 2:8 go back to that post and see

Jesus is not here today to forgive sin as he did with the thief on the cross. Jesus has left his plan to save man today it is recorded in Acts 2 and it is the only way now that salvation is received

Who do you think sends the Spirit? He does still see our faith and forgive our sin. Whoever "calls" on the Lord will be saved.
The Spirit is given to those who love and obey Him.
NOTHING IS HIDDEN FROM HIM

He still lives. Yes, He is in heaven.
God grants the repentance. It's called grace.

The indwelling spirit is recorded in Gods word as being given after one has believed repented and been baptized in Christ name see Acts 2:38 please read the scriptures and take them at their word for they are the words to the new life.

Again I am asking you to reconsider what the scriptures really are saying and not be unwilling to check your belief for error.

Remember the scriptures are what gives the new life for they record Gods plan for salvation and must all harmonize which they do if we let them.

I didn't receive the Spirit when I was baptized as an infant. But later in life when I asked for that gift of God as on calling on the Lord.

Your mistaken in that water baptism is the ONLY way to receive the Spirit. I know by scripture and by experience.

 

[Paul]

I can not get you to see what the scriptures say so I will leave you to your own understanding and lift you up in prayer to our gracious heavenly Farther that he might open your eyes to what you are missing in his divine word. Again it has been very nice discussing this with you but I have failed to open your eyes and for that I apologize.

If you want me to see that water baptism is an absolute requirement for the Spiritual reality of Christ in us it's not going to happen either by you or the Lord as He uses truth. The authority to forgive sin still remains in Him. He still sees our faith in Him. Blessed are those who don't see but believe as He told Thomas. Our faith has saved us. We are saved by grace through faith.

No one turns from the power of darkness to the power of God apart from Gods grace of repentance. Godly repentance leads to the knowledge of the truth. I don't speak in terms of error of "repent and be baptized and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" but that truth doesn't take away from what is also written, "whoever calls on the Lord will be saved" "For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified" "and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved."


And if man who knows evil can make a distinction in judicial matters between children and adults how much more so can our heavenly Father who knows no evil. Regardless of who they are Christ can forgive babies and little children by the Sovereign authority that is in Him any time He wills it so. He is not bound by a water baptism requirement nor even a faith requirement as not all babies or little children have a Christian parent, and some do die. Unlike adults they would be seen as blameless. He judges by His righteousness not ours.

You keep telling me I can't see but I have the Spirit of Christ in me and know my Lord. God has chosen me to see the righteous one and I have heard words from His mouth in answer to prayers.

 

[Arial]

I am posting in good faith of the scriptures my dear sister. I have backed scripture with scripture and given the complete context of subject. [Rules-violating content removed by moderator.] But you accusing me of " Are your going to consider those scriptures that are all in the context in which you pull your one scripture out of" is false because I have given more and more scriptural support and context of them than you. You want to hang your hat on Ephesians 2:8 making it stand alone but I even gave context to as why that is not the case. [Rules-violating content removed by moderator.]

Is that an example of you dealing with the scriptures in post #113---which is the post you are responding to above?

 

[John Bauer]

The plan to enter is shortcut for the gospel message and the required response to the gospel call that put one in the new covenant God has made with man.

So, what you were saying (in a now-deleted post) is that the new covenant and how to enter it—responding rightly to the gospel message—did not happen until after the cross.

This is biblically correct in one sense, namely, the new covenant began with the cross of Christ. However, responding rightly to the message of the gospel (i.e., faith) is not what puts a person in the new covenant. Faith is the instrument by which we receive Christ; it is not the cause of covenant inclusion.

Let’s walk through this carefully. The cross of Christ established the new covenant (Luke 22:20; Heb 9:15-17). This new covenant, as the historical administration of the one covenant of grace, is objectively ratified by his blood and now exists as a reality.

But how does one enter that covenant relation? Through union with Christ. Every spiritual blessing of the new covenant—election, redemption, forgiveness, inheritance, etc.—is located “in Christ” (Eph 1:3–14). There are no covenant benefits distributed independently of union with Christ. To be in Christ is to be in the covenant; those not in Christ are outside the covenant.

So, how does union with Christ happen? Scripture is explicit that this union is wrought by the Holy Spirit. As Paul tells us, it is by one Spirit that we are all baptized into one body (1 Cor 12:13), and anyone who doesn’t have the Spirit does not belong to Christ (Rom 8:9). It is by the Spirit that we are incorporated into Christ’s body. Belonging to Christ is covenant membership, which is effected by the Holy Spirit. It is not a matter of human assent or moral resolve.

Entrance into the new-covenant kingdom presupposes regeneration. “Unless a person is born of water and Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” According to Old Testament passages which Nicodemus should have known (e.g., Isa 44:3-5; Ezek 36:25-27; 37:9-10), both water and wind function as figures that represent the regenerating work of the Spirit. The same causal order appears in Johannine theology more broadly. “Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God” (1 John 5:1). The Greek grammar makes it clear: believing is the evidential expression of divine begetting, not its cause. “The one who belongs to God listens and responds to God’s words. You don’t listen and respond, because you don’t belong to God” (John 8:47).

This, then, is the biblical sequence: Christ establishes the covenant and all its benefits in himself (Eph 1:3; Heb 9), the Spirit regenerates the elect sinner, creating new life in union with Christ (John 1:13; John 3:3-8; Eph 2:5; Titus 3:5; 1 Cor 12:13; Rom 8:9-11), and that new life expresses itself in faith, which receives and rests in Christ (John 6:37; Phil 1:29; Heb 4:10) and all the salvific benefits in Christ (Rom 6:3-5; 1 Cor 1:30; Eph 1:3-7).

Faith does not put one in the new covenant; it lays hold of the One in whom that covenant relationship already exists, a union effected by the Holy Spirit in everyone the Father gives to the Son. Apart from union with Christ, faith would never arise, for faith is the expression of divine begetting.

If responding rightly to the gospel is made the condition that puts one in the covenant, several problems follow, the thorniest of which is that it implicitly denies that old-covenant saints were united to Christ—an error that you explicitly affirm (“[In Acts 2] the doors to the church opened for the first time”). Scripture does not allow this. Abraham believed the gospel beforehand (Gal 3:8), was justified by faith, and shared in the same covenant of grace. What changed at the cross was not the way sinners are united to Christ, but the historical completion of the work to which their faith pointed. (The covenant signs changed, too. Old covenant signs were typological and promissory, prefiguring Christ who was to come, whereas new covenant signs are sacramental and participatory, proclaiming Christ until he returns.)

If I may quote something you said, “I am really surprised that I have to explain this. I thought this was elementary.”