Faith is the Gift of God

[ReverendRV]

Man is Trichotomous; Body, Soul and Spirt. ~ Faith is Trichotomous; Notitia, Assensus and Fiducia. - Which part of Man's Belief, belongs to which part of Man's Being?

If Fiducia belongs to our Spirit, a dead Spirit doesn't produce Fiducia; right? We first need to be made Alive...

 

[Arial]

Man is Trichotomous; Body, Soul and Spirt. ~ Faith is Trichotomous; Notitia, Assensus and Fiducia. - Which part of Man's Belief, belongs to which part of Man's Being?

If Fiducia belongs to our Spirit, a dead Spirit doesn't produce Fiducia; right? We first need to be made Alive...

Notitia. Notitia refers to the content of faith, or those things that we believe. We place our faith in something, or more appropriately, someone. In order to believe, we must know something about that someone, who is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Assensus. Assensus is our conviction that the content of our faith is true. You can know about the Christian faith and yet believe that it is not true. Genuine faith says that the content — the notitia taught by Holy Scripture — is true.

Fiducia. Fiducia refers to personal trust and reliance. Knowing and believing the content of the Christian faith is not enough, for even demons can do that (James 2:19). Faith is only effectual if, knowing about and assenting to the claims of Jesus, one personally trusts in Him alone for salvation.

Yes, according to the Bible we do need to be made alive first. And it is God who makes us alive, in Christ.

Eph 2:1-7


1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the bodya and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.b 4Butc God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

 

[ReverendRV]

Can the Lost have Notitia and Assensus, without having the third Lego Block of Fiducia?

Would having Notitia leave them without an Excuse? In Epistemology, would Notitia belong to the Body?

A three-cord Strand cannot quickly be broken...

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

Man is trichotomous—body, soul, and spirt.

Faith is trichotomous—notitia, assensus, and fiducia.

Which part of man's belief belongs to which part of man's being? If fiducia belongs to our spirit, a dead spirit doesn't produce fiducia, right? We first need to be made alive.

I must firmly reject your first premise, that man is a trichotomy of body, soul, and spirit. As vaguely hinted at by your argument here, the first premise is toxic to biblical orthodoxy, most clearly evidenced by the fourth-century Christological heresy of Apollinaris (as well as the 21st-century Neo-Apollinarianism of William Lane Craig).

In the trichotomous understanding, (1) the body is the physical component, (2) the soul includes the emotions and desires, and (3) the spirit is the rational, intellectual component. The Apollinarian heresy effectively divides Christ's nature in a trichotomous manner but substitutes either the human spirit (Apollinarian) or the human soul (Neo-Apollinarian) with the divine Logos. This division is problematic insofar as it implies that Jesus was not fully or exactly human. By replacing either the human spirit or soul with the divine Logos, the full humanity of Jesus—essential for the orthodox understanding of the incarnation and the redemption of human nature—is undermined.

If the human being is a holistic monad—if he does not have a soul but rather is a soul—then fiducia belongs to the entire person. And those who are covenant-breakers (i.e., spiritually dead), as an indivisible and fundamental entity, indeed cannot produce saving faith and must be first made alive.

 

[ReverendRV]

I must firmly reject your first premise, that man is a trichotomy of body, soul, and spirit. As vaguely hinted at by your argument here, the first premise is toxic to biblical orthodoxy, most clearly evidenced by the fourth-century Christological heresy of Apollinaris (as well as the 21st-century Neo-Apollinarianism of William Lane Craig).

In the trichotomous understanding, (1) the body is the physical component, (2) the soul includes the emotions and desires, and (3) the spirit is the rational, intellectual component. The Apollinarian heresy effectively divides Christ's nature in a trichotomous manner but substitutes either the human spirit (Apollinarian) or the human soul (Neo-Apollinarian) with the divine Logos. This division is problematic insofar as it implies that Jesus was not fully or exactly human. By replacing either the human spirit or soul with the divine Logos, the full humanity of Jesus—essential for the orthodox understanding of the incarnation and the redemption of human nature—is undermined.

If the human being is a holistic monad—if he does not have a soul but rather is a soul—then fiducia belongs to the entire person. And those who are covenant-breakers (i.e., spiritually dead), as an indivisible and fundamental entity, indeed cannot produce saving faith and must be first made alive.

Sorry Brother; I'm just borrowing the language of a Trichotomy, to help people understand my point about Belief also being Trichotomus...

The OP is not about our Essence...

 

[ReverendRV]

If the human being is a holistic monad—if he does not have a soul but rather is a soul—then fiducia belongs to the entire person. And those who are covenant-breakers (i.e., spiritually dead), as an indivisible and fundamental entity, indeed cannot produce saving faith and must be first made alalive.

I suppose our Being a Trichotomy or not, does belong in the discussion. Answer me this; if we are a Body, Soul and Spirt, could Fiducia only belong to our Born Again Spirt?

 

[makesends]

I must firmly reject your first premise, that man is a trichotomy of body, soul, and spirit. As vaguely hinted at by your argument here, the first premise is toxic to biblical orthodoxy, most clearly evidenced by the fourth-century Christological heresy of Apollinaris (as well as the 21st-century Neo-Apollinarianism of William Lane Craig).

In the trichotomous understanding, (1) the body is the physical component, (2) the soul includes the emotions and desires, and (3) the spirit is the rational, intellectual component. The Apollinarian heresy effectively divides Christ's nature in a trichotomous manner but substitutes either the human spirit (Apollinarian) or the human soul (Neo-Apollinarian) with the divine Logos. This division is problematic insofar as it implies that Jesus was not fully or exactly human. By replacing either the human spirit or soul with the divine Logos, the full humanity of Jesus—essential for the orthodox understanding of the incarnation and the redemption of human nature—is undermined.

If the human being is a holistic monad—if he does not have a soul but rather is a soul—then fiducia belongs to the entire person. And those who are covenant-breakers (i.e., spiritually dead), as an indivisible and fundamental entity, indeed cannot produce saving faith and must be first made alive.

"...they are no more of this world than I am..." John 17:14

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

I suppose our Being a Trichotomy or not, does belong in the discussion. Answer me this; if we are a Body, Soul and Spirt, could Fiducia only belong to our Born Again Spirt?

I can't answer questions predicated on the first premise being true because I don't accept it as true. Answering your question requires having taken the tripartite view seriously enough to flesh out its contours and depths, and I never bothered after encountering its heretical implications.

But even your question itself rings a false note, because all three elements are entailed in salvific faith. Knowledge (notitia) and assent (assensus) alone are insufficient; one must also personally trust in and rely on Christ (fiducia)—and that belongs to the whole man, not some component part of him. Faith involves the entire person, both the body (brain) and the mind (conscience), from the inner thought life to the physical self.

One might say that faith, like man, is likewise a holistic, indivisible thing. It has component parts that can be distinguished but it cannot be identified without all of them together; that is, fiducia apart from notitia and assensus is not faith, yet your question tries to separate it out.

Can you perceive my problem? If so, how would you address it?

 

[SeventhDay]

Man is Trichotomous; Body, Soul and Spirt. ~ Faith is Trichotomous; Notitia, Assensus and Fiducia. - Which part of Man's Belief, belongs to which part of Man's Being?

If Fiducia belongs to our Spirit, a dead Spirit doesn't produce Fiducia; right? We first need to be made Alive...

Yes, "faith" is a spiritual component and one must be quickened out of death and is made spiritually alive. God's calling is a spiritual calling and it requires God's faith in us to hear the Word of God. I Christ we are a spiritual soul and have a spiritual body and are joined to one Spirit. God has a spiritual body and God is a soul. "Soul. body and Spirit.

 

[Mr GLee]

Sorry Brother; I'm just borrowing the language of a Trichotomy, to help people understand my point about Belief also being Trichotomus...

The OP is not about our Essence...

Why not a duality?

The Son of man Jesus displaying to the world the power or faith of the invisible Father. The work of two empowered by one .

Three seems to denote the end of a matter in parables.

 

[CrowCross]

Sorry Brother; I'm just borrowing the language of a Trichotomy, to help people understand my point about Belief also being Trichotomus...

The OP is not about our Essence...

This is a difficult topic as the bible often presents our spirit and soul as two different "natures" or "essences"....Hebrews 4:12... while sometimes presenting the soul and spirt as the same thing. It is clear that our soul and spirit are tightly connected somehow.

Our faith and where it comes from also isn't "simple". I agree faith is a gift from God and without this gift of faith we can't have salvation.

 

[His clay]

Man is Trichotomous; Body, Soul and Spirt. ~ Faith is Trichotomous; Notitia, Assensus and Fiducia. - Which part of Man's Belief, belongs to which part of Man's Being?

If Fiducia belongs to our Spirit, a dead Spirit doesn't produce Fiducia; right? We first need to be made Alive...

While I agree that faith is the gift of God, as demonstrated in Eph 2:8, I don't find the opening post convincing. If I were to be a skeptic, I would only need to point to how no scripture is present in the post. If I were to have my mind changed on a matter, then it would need to be through the exegesis of scripture. Scripture rules the day, not Latin.

 

[Mr GLee]

This is a difficult topic as the bible often presents our spirit and soul as two different "natures" or "essences"....Hebrews 4:12... while sometimes presenting the soul and spirt as the same thing. It is clear that our soul and spirit are tightly connected somehow.

Our faith and where it comes from also isn't "simple". I agree faith is a gift from God and without this gift of faith we can't have salvation.

Yes without faith The power to understand the spiritual things of God not seen (and it was God alone good). Without that power Christ worked not .

As our born agin gift He gives us little calling us of "little faith" . Peter when loving commanded to perform a work that he fell short of the glory of prayed increase our new born again faith.

Luke 17:4-6King James Version4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith. (new power)

2 Corinthians 10:15 Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,

 

[ReverendRV]

This is a difficult topic as the bible often presents our spirit and soul as two different "natures" or "essences"....Hebrews 4:12... while sometimes presenting the soul and spirt as the same thing. It is clear that our soul and spirit are tightly connected somehow.

Our faith and where it comes from also isn't "simple". I agree faith is a gift from God and without this gift of faith we can't have salvation.

I look at our Soul/spirit as our heart needing to be Circumcised; after Circumcision, our Spirit becomes Alive and our Faith comes from this New Life...

 

[ReverendRV]

While I agree that faith is the gift of God, as demonstrated in Eph 2:8, I don't find the opening post convincing. If I were to be a skeptic, I would only need to point to how no scripture is present in the post. If I were to have my mind changed on a matter, then it would need to be through the exegesis of scripture. Scripture rules the day, not Latin.

You are the one I was looking for

I must admit, it's at best a Theological Assumption. I think it would make sense that Fiducia comes to us through our Living Human Spirit. We certainly only had Notitia and/or Assensus before we received the Gift of Fiducia, right?


Allegory ~ by ReverendRV * January 9

Galatians 4:24 King James 2000; Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from mount Sinai, which brings forth to bondage, which is Hagar.

An Allegory is a story with symbolic Meaning that’s intended to help teach a lesson; IE “The Moral of the Story”. “Pilgrim’s Progress” is a famous Allegory intended to help us picture what the Bible teaches, it’s the second most published book after the Bible. I explained to someone what it meant to be spiritually dead, and I used an Allegory; we consist of Body and Soul, but a dead spirit. ~ Mr Body and Mr Soul were sitting around a fire and they started reminiscing about their old friend Mr Spirit who had passed away. Mr Soul asked Mr Body if he believed in God? Mr Body said I don’t believe in anything I can’t see. Hoping to convince Mr Body that God is real, Mr Soul thought that maybe he could convince Mr Body in a god ‘like’ the real God, so he gave that a try. All of the sudden out of the flames, Mr Spirit returned from the dead and told Mr Soul and Mr Body he has Discerned that God is real; then they all believed in God…

Saint Paul said, “Once I was alive apart from the Law; but when the Commandment came, Sin sprang to life and I died. ~ What do you call someone who always Lies? A Liar, right? Do you tell Lies? As a matter of fact, don’t you always tell Lies? The Ninth Commandment has come to you, and Sin sprang to life in you! What do you call someone who is famous for Stealing? A Thief, right? Have you Stolen before? As a matter of fact, don’t you always Steal? The Eighth Commandment has come to you, and more Sin has sprung to life and you’ve died. You are Separated from God; this is Spiritual Death. ~ These are just two of the Ten Commandments, do we need to continue? Jesus is the Judge of the world and said that Lust is Adultery and Hatred is Murder. If he judged you by this standard, would you be innocent or guilty? Will you go to Heaven or Hell? Let me help you learn how to be Saved; you need the Gospel of Jesus Christ…

For God so loved the world, he gave us his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life. Jesus Christ lived his life without Sinning and earned a good record of Righteousness; this qualified him to be the Lamb of God who takes away the Sin of the world. He did this by bleeding to death on a Roman Cross, and by rising from the dead on the first Easter Sunday. We’re Saved by the Grace of God through Faith in the Living Savior Jesus Christ, without Working to Merit our Justification. Repent of your Sin, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God; and go to a Bible loving Church…

1st Thessalonians 5:23 KJV; And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Mr GLee]

I would offer.

One person whole self—spirit, soul, and body. No division in the body of Christ (the bride)

It would seem a wile of the father of lies. What God calls one he multiplies . or what God calls many he calls one.

All die not receiving the promise of a new incorruptible body

1 Thessalonians 5:22-24Easy-to-Read Versionand stay away from everything that is evil. We pray that God himself, the God of peace, will make you pure—belonging only to him. We pray that your whole self—spirit, soul, and body—will be kept safe and be blameless when our Lord Jesus Christ comes. The one who chose you will do that for you. You can trust him.

 

[ReverendRV]

I would offer.

One person whole self—spirit, soul, and body. No division in the body of Christ (the bride)

It would seem a wile of the father of lies. What God calls one he multiplies . or what God calls many he calls one.

All die not receiving the promise of a new incorruptible body

1 Thessalonians 5:22-24Easy-to-Read Versionand stay away from everything that is evil. We pray that God himself, the God of peace, will make you pure—belonging only to him. We pray that your whole self—spirit, soul, and body—will be kept safe and be blameless when our Lord Jesus Christ comes. The one who chose you will do that for you. You can trust him.

Would you say that before Jesus was Glorified; that as the Second Adam, he had a Living Body, Soul and Spirt as Adam had before the Fall? Along with having the Divine Logos of God in a Hypostatic Union?

 

[Mr GLee]

Would you say that before Jesus was Glorified; that as the Second Adam, he had a Living Body, Soul and Spirt as Adam had before the Fall? Along with having the Divine Logos of God in a Hypostatic Union?

I don't think God is not a man . Eternal Spirit has no nature none not little. as a beginning and no end

Hypostatic Union. a oral tradition of dying mankind . In a attempt to create a queen mother of heaven

Christ the anointing Holy Spirt .He is supernatural (without beginning of days or end of Spirit life ).

God is light "The let there be" and the light of his presence "it was God alone good"

 

[CrowCross]

I look at our Soul/spirit as our heart needing to be Circumcised; after Circumcision, our Spirit becomes Alive and our Faith comes from this New Life...

Could be. I would say our spirit becomes alive when our heart is circumcised...quickened...and at the same time God placed faith into it.
This faith can grow.

 

[ReverendRV]

Could be. I would say our spirit becomes alive when our heart is circumcised...quickened...and at the same time God placed faith into it.
This faith can grow.

Sounds good...

As Calvinists, I don't think we can endorse Fiducia belonging to our Dead Spirit or to our Live Body and Soul. I think Fiducia is Spiritually Discerned...

I'm looking forward to what hisclay has to say...