Eternal life, given or offered?

[Carbon]

Arminians, Can you show one verse in the Bible where eternal life is offered, rather than given?


For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6:23.

 

[LeviR]

Hi Carbon,

Not to be picky but the scripture you posted was incorrect.
Two things:
First, there is no word “free” in the verse.
Second, it’s Romans 6:23.

 

[fastfredy0]

1. John 3:16 “For God so [greatly] loved and dearly prized the world, that He [even] gave His [One and] [a]only begotten Son, so that whoever believes and trusts in Him [as Savior] shall not perish, but have eternal life.
2. John 6:51 I am the Living Bread that came down out of heaven. If anyone eats of this Bread [believes in Me, accepts Me as Savior], he will live forever. And the Bread that I will give for the life of the world is My flesh (body).”
3. 1 Timothy 2:3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Saviour, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. … 6 who gave Himself as a ransom [a substitutionary sacrifice to atone] for all, the testimony given at the right and proper time.
4. 1 John 2:2 and he himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for our sins but also for the whole world.
5. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord does not delay [as though He were unable to act] and is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is [extraordinarily] patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
6. Hebrews 3:9b crowned with glory and honor because of His suffering of death, so that by the grace of God [extended to sinners] He might experience death for [the sins of] everyone.
7. 2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ controls and compels us, because we have concluded this, that One died for all, therefore all died; 15 and He died for all, so that all those who live would no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and was raised for their sake.
8. Romans 5:18 So then as through one trespass [Adam’s sin] there resulted condemnation for all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

 

[Carbon]

Hi Carbon,

Not to be picky but the scripture you posted was incorrect.
Two things:
First, there is no word “free” in the verse.
Second, it’s Romans 6:23.

I’m glad you noticed it’s Roman’s.

 

[Carbon]

Hi Carbon,

Not to be picky but the scripture you posted was incorrect.
Two things:
First, there is no word “free” in the verse.
Second, it’s Romans 6:23.

There’s no word “free?”

 

[LeviR]

There’s no word “free?”

The wages of sin is death, but by the generosity of God is life eternal….

It’s a divine gift of generosity.

 

[JIM]

Arminians, Can you show one verse in the Bible where eternal life is offered, rather than given?


For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6:23.

Define the difference that you are looking for. There are many verses that make eternal life provisional.

 

[David Lamb]

1. John 3:16 “For God so [greatly] loved and dearly prized the world, that He [even] gave His [One and] [a]only begotten Son, so that whoever believes and trusts in Him [as Savior] shall not perish, but have eternal life.

I'll start by saying that I don't read NT Greek. However, I understand that the meaning of the word translated "so" in John 3:16 means "in this manner", "thus". So the verse isn't talking about the greatness of God's love (it is great of course, as other passages make clear), but the manner in which He loves the world.

 

[fastfredy0]

So the verse isn't talking about the greatness of God's love

I am not a Greek expert either. I copied the verse from the AMP bible and I assume they know what they are talking about when they added the comment "greatly".

 

[David Lamb]

I am not a Greek expert either. I copied the verse from the AMP bible and I assume they know what they are talking about when they added the comment "greatly".

Perhaps somebody who knows NT Greek on this Forum could confirm what the word means.

 

[JIM]

Arminians, Can you show one verse in the Bible where eternal life is offered, rather than given?


For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6:23.

There are over a dozen verses in the NT that say "whoever believes" or "whosoever believes" or "he who believes" has eternal life. Clearly that states that believing is a condition for having eternal life. That establishes the fact that eternal life is offered (and given) to the one who believes. I realize that believing in monergistic regeneration prevents you from seeing the truth in all of this. So the real question is not whether eternal life is offered rather than given, but rather whether God chooses who He saves based in any way upon the one He saves. I maintain that statements in scripture such as "whoever believes" or other conditional representations such as "by faith" clearly establishes that eternal life is "offered". Believing is a prerequisite to being given eternal life, and believing is a choice based upon hearing the gospel message. It is the first step in obeying the gospel. We know that because both Paul and Peter tells us what happens to those who fail to obey the gospel (Rom 10:16; 2 Thes 1:8; 1 Pet 4:17).

And by the way I am not an Arminian, even though I agree with some things that are typically assigned as Arminianism. I might agree with some things that are typically said to be from Calvinism, but I am not a Calvinist.

 

[Alive]

Perhaps this helps. Mounce is a Greek scholar.
““For this is how God loved the world: he gave his one and only Son that everyone who believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”

(John 3:16 MOUNCE-NT)

Accordance

accordance.bible

 

[David Lamb]

Perhaps this helps. Mounce is a Greek scholar.
““For this is how God loved the world: he gave his one and only Son that everyone who believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”

(John 3:16 MOUNCE-NT)

Accordance

accordance.bible

Thanks for posting that. Very helpful!

 

[fastfredy0]

Perhaps somebody who knows NT Greek on this Forum could confirm what the word means.

Re: john 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish , but have everlasting life. KJV

ἠγάπησεν
Morphology: VIAA--3S Strong's: 25 Transliterated: ēgapēsen Root: ἀγαπάω
1) of persons 1a) to welcome, to entertain, to be fond of, to love dearly 2) of things 2a) to be well pleased, to be contented at or with a thing Synonym

Some translations don't have the word "so" in the verse.

Matthew 1 .... this website let's you search for a book/chapter of the bible and then you can go to right hand side and click on GREEK ... then use a mouse to go through the Greek and at the bottom as you put cursor on a Greek word above you will give a translation. Takes a little practice.

 

[Mr GLee]

There are over a dozen verses in the NT that say "whoever believes" or "whosoever believes" or "he who believes" has eternal life. Clearly that states that believing is a condition for having eternal life. That establishes the fact that eternal life is offered (and given) to the one who believes. I realize that believing in monergistic regeneration prevents you from seeing the truth in all of this. So the real question is not whether eternal life is offered rather than given, but rather whether God chooses who He saves based in any way upon the one He saves. I maintain that statements in scripture such as "whoever believes" or other conditional representations such as "by faith" clearly establishes that eternal life is "offered". Believing is a prerequisite to being given eternal life, and believing is a choice based upon hearing the gospel message. It is the first step in obeying the gospel. We know that because both Paul and Peter tells us what happens to those who fail to obey the gospel (Rom 10:16; 2 Thes 1:8; 1 Pet 4:17).

And by the way I am not an Arminian, even though I agree with some things that are typically assigned as Arminianism. I might agree with some things that are typically said to be from Calvinism, but I am not a Calvinist.

Its given as a free gift of new born again life. Power to hear his understanding and perform it to his good pleasure .

In Hebrew 6 spoken as the better thing that acompanies the free gift .The promise God will not forget the good works we miraculously can offer towards his name as power. Being empower to do so ..

We work out from within the free gift that works in us . Jesus the Son of man did the will of the father with delight .Some like Jonah the murmurer was dragged through thorns and briers to preach the gospel and wanted to die knowing the power of God . Exposes his self righteousness . Wanting nothing to do with other nations hoping his Jewish flesh could profit

Philipians 2:12-14 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both (the key) to will and to do of his good pleasure.Do all things without murmurings and disputings:


Hebrew 6:9-10 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

 

[Arial]

There are over a dozen verses in the NT that say "whoever believes" or "whosoever believes" or "he who believes" has eternal life. Clearly that states that believing is a condition for having eternal life. That establishes the fact that eternal life is offered (and given) to the one who believes.

Where in any of them is the word or implication of choosing to believe? It is not there, it is added. It is added because one comes to the scriptures already believing that salvation (believing) is a matter of one's personal preference or choice.

Which produces a situation that defies all logic. If you do believe it must contain some level of understanding what is heard or read. And if there is understanding, it shows a knowledge that by choosing to believe (if one is looking at it as a matter of choice) one gains eternal life, and that by not choosing to believe, one faces certain and permanent death. In other words, the person does believe. And if they do believe, how then are they to also not believe?

Which also begs the question----believe what exactly?

Add to all that, to see it as a matter of one's personal choice is to utterly ignore countless other scriptures. Here is just one of them.

John 6:35-37 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you, you have seen and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

63-65 "It is the Spirit who gives life, the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."

 

[Arial]

I realize that believing in monergistic regeneration prevents you from seeing the truth in all of this.

The Bible teaches the sovereignty of God in ALL things. That would mean no one belongs to Jesus unless the Father gives them to him. Jesus teaches this in John 3. There is no one who can regenerate but God. Man cannot regenerate himself. That is why God as Jesus had to come and substitute himself for the believer. And why the believer is joined to Christ and his work of redemption through faith. But that atoning work of Christ in and of itself, will not raise anyone to life. God must first bring the person to life. And that is an internal change that reaches in, the mighty hand of God, and turns that heart of stone that is turned away from God, to one soft and pliable in his hands, facing towards him. Just as he says in Jeremiah.

So the real question is not whether eternal life is offered rather than given, but rather whether God chooses who He saves based in any way upon the one He saves

The claim is never made in the doctrines of grace that God chooses who he saves based in any way upon the one he saves. It teaches the opposite and according to Scripture. Eph 1:11-14 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

 

[JIM]

Where in any of them is the word or implication of choosing to believe?

Believing something and believing in something is a choice. Believing is neither instinct nor imposed.

It is not there, it is added. It is added because one comes to the scriptures already believing that salvation (believing) is a matter of one's personal preference or choice.

Not so. You have a perverted idea of how one comes to believe in God.

Which produces a situation that defies all logic.

No, rather it is your view of belief that defies all logic.

If you do believe it must contain some level of understanding what is heard or read. And if there is understanding, it shows a knowledge that by choosing to believe (if one is looking at it as a matter of choice) one gains eternal life, and that by not choosing to believe, one faces certain and permanent death. In other words, the person does believe. And if they do believe, how then are they to also not believe?

Which also begs the question----believe what exactly?

That Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and he sacrificed Himself for us.

Add to all that, to see it as a matter of one's personal choice is to utterly ignore countless other scriptures. Here is just one of them.

John 6:35-37 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you, you have seen and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

63-65 "It is the Spirit who gives life, the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe." (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."

And you think Jesus knew would believe because they were first regenerated? Rubbish! In your words above, It is not there.

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me-- 46 not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." 14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?" 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

 

[JIM]

The Bible teaches the sovereignty of God in ALL things.

And you have a perverted view of the sovereignty of God. It is not sovereignty of God that you espouse; rather it is complete determination and predestination of all things that you preach.

That would mean no one belongs to Jesus unless the Father gives them to him. Jesus teaches this in John 3. There is no one who can regenerate but God. Man cannot regenerate himself.

Of course, only God can regenerate, but that does not even address who God regenerates. It certainly does not preclude anyone from wanting to be regenerated.

That is why God as Jesus had to come and substitute himself for the believer. And why the believer is joined to Christ and his work of redemption through faith. But that atoning work of Christ in and of itself, will not raise anyone to life. God must first bring the person to life. And that is an internal change that reaches in, the mighty hand of God, and turns that heart of stone that is turned away from God, to one soft and pliable in his hands, facing towards him. Just as he says in Jeremiah.

Again, nothing there precludes one from want to be redeemed.

The claim is never made in the doctrines of grace that God chooses who he saves based in any way upon the one he saves.

Of course it does.

Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

It is those who love God that He foreknew and predestined and called....

It teaches the opposite and according to Scripture. Eph 1:11-14 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

And you would limit the purpose of his will to be completely devoid of any substance of the one He has predestined. That is your religion that teaches that falsehood, not the scriptures. You would have God issues laws and commands and then prevent the majority of those to whom the laws and commands were given to even try to obey any of them, needing instead to be first regenerated. Your religion wipes out even a reason for this truly great creation by God. If God were going to preselect those to whom He would give eternal life without any consideration to them as persons, then why didn't He do that without all the folderal of creating the universe and all those eternally condemned?

You talk about defying logic; that not only defies logic, but it also makes a mockery of a gracious God.

 

[Arial]

Believing something and believing in something is a choice. Believing is neither instinct nor imposed.

No one claims it is instinct or imposed. There is a reason why those who hate the idea of a God who would not give man a say so in whether he is saved or not, put forth so called arguments like the one above. The reason is, they can't really make the Bible say what they want it to say unless they add to it and at the same time take away everything that would disprove their position. Therefore they simply misrepresent the doctrine and then tilt at the misrepresentation.

Do you believe in gravity as something that exists and affects every aspect of the world we live in? Could you choose not to believe it? Did you choose to believe it or do you simply believe it because the evidence makes it impossible to not believe? A person would be a fool to believe there is no such thing as gravity. An even bigger fool would be a person who heard the gospel, believed it, and then chose to not believe it, because they would rather go to hell.

A person can say they choose to believe something and not really believe it at all. And since you have said you grew up in a Christian home and do not even know when you "chose" to believe it, and it is more likely that you just did believe the gospel as opposed to not believing it, you really have no standing to even say the things you do about it from any experience of your own. Choosing certainly wasn't your own experience.