Digital Currency, will it be used to control buying and selling?

[Josheb]

I'll restate, just to be clear: I do not believe that the meaning of the MotB is a silicon chip. I believe that the meaning is that it is a mark, visible or otherwise, that points to the fact that the person who has it belongs to the "beast" kingdom; however, this does not preclude an application of this principle to modern technology (although not exclusively).

The "beast" kingdom has existed for a very long time and there are always marks evident in those who belong to it (just as there are in those who belong to the Kingdom of God); however, it has not always been the case that one cannot buy or sell without such marks.

If the prophecy in Rev. 13 (and elsewhere) started in the 1st C. A.D. (and I believe that it did), that does not mean that it ended there. I believe that the principles involved have continued to this day and that there could be a final, extreme application of them, in the near future (there are many signs indicating that the world is heading in that direction).

Great.

What is the topic of this op?

 

[Josheb]

You're right that there was neither RCism, nor "Pope", in the 1st C. A.D.; however, RCism is merely the continuation of pagan Roman religion.

For the moment I will concede that premise.

It does absolutely nothing to correct the inconsistency with which the agreed upon exegetical precepts are applied. Even if the RCC is an extension of pagan religion 1) that has nothing to do with Revelation 13, 2) is not a mark, and 3) there is no way the first century Christian reader would have understood the mark as something having to do with a religious institution that did not exist in their era.

The "Pope" was handed the title of "Pontifex Maximus" ("Greatest Bridge-builder", in a pagan, religious sense) by one of the latter Roman Caesars, thereby taking over the religious authority of the Caesars. It is no secret that apostate Christianity incorporated a great deal of paganism and mixed it with pseudo-Christianity; nor is it a secret that the Roman Emperor Constantine declared this paganised Christianity to be the official religion of the Roman Empire.

Before you can provide a post hoc argument for a question-begging premise the veracity of the position must first be proven. Not only is that content digressive; it is fallacious and completely lacking in actual scriptural content and scriptural exegesis. There is no pope in Revelation 13. Read what I said to Doug (Post #39). It is a completely post-scriptural, extra-scriptural interpretation, not one that can be understood with the plain reading of the text in the ordinary meaning of the words, one that would be considered by the original author and his original readers, and it's lacking in scriptural precedent. If we were going to look at misguided religious institutions then first century Judaism would be a MUCH better, much more likely alternative. It was the Jewish priests who first wore robes of purple and scarlet, not the RCC.

 

[TibiasDad]

There is simply no way in heaven or hell the first century reader would have though the mark on the hand or forehead was a computer implant. Every single Christian should instantly reject every single teacher who tries to pass that nonsense off as truth.

The natural reading of Revelation 13:16-17 leads us to conclude the mark is a scar, a tattoo, or something worn visibly on the hand or forehead and NOT digital currency, computer implants, vaccines, or anything having to do with far-distant-in-the-future modern space age, information age technology.

In fact, there is very little technology in Revelation! Modern futurists impose that on the text. They do NOT read the text naturally.

I’m not saying that digital currency is the mark itself, and I don’t think that a chip under the skin is the mark either, though I can’t completely rule it out.

The text tells us what happens, but it does not tell us the means of it happening! The beast government is a global government and the mark, the name or number of the name, are objective facts, but the details of these facts are largely unknown.

A digital currency controlled by a global power, which is now technologically possible for the first time in history, is a possible solution for the “how” question regarding making such an event as being unable to buy or sell with out the mark (whatever that may or may not look like) functional.

Doug

 

[Marilyn C]

Yes! That is something the first century reader would have understood.

No. That is not something the first century Christian reader would have understood.

There's an additional problem with the implant hypothesis that I rarely read get addressed. The mark is a thing that is visible. It is put on the hand or the forehead to be seen. In the case of the phylacteries, it was something the wearer viewed, not those observing the wearer. This became perverted by the time Jesus showed up, with the Jewish leaders wearing their phylacteries to be seen by others as a fleshly, works-based display of their devotion and righteousness. In the case of works and thoughts (as our brother David has hypothesized), the works are visible but they are not a mark; the thoughts are not visible unless and until displayed in works.

A first century view would be something like a scar or a tattoo or, as you have suggested, a scratch, etching or engraving - but it has to be worn on the outside, nit the inside. Implants do not meet the criteria asserted in scripture.

Now the early believers knew that `marks` on servants etc were not always visible to everyone as the master often put it behind the ear etc and the `pattern` was not always known by others.

As for the modern `etching` in a capsule under the skin it is readable by an electronic reader. It does not say in Rev. 13 that the `mark` is visible only that obviously it would have meaning for those in charge.

Not everything in God`s word is understandable by the early believers or even us before the time.

eg. Isa. 60: 8 `Who are these who fly like a cloud, and like doves to their roosts?`

Rev. 13: 15 `He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.`

Rev. 11: 8 & 9 `And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a -half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves.`

 

[TibiasDad]

Now the early believers knew that `marks` on servants etc were not always visible to everyone as the master often put it behind the ear etc and the `pattern` was not always known by others.

The OT had a marking system for slaves that chose to stay with their masters after their 6 year term.

Deut 15:16But if your servant says to you, “I do not want to leave you,” because he loves you and your family and is well off with you, 17then take an awl and push it through his earlobe into the door, and he will become your servant for life. Do the same for your female servant.

Doug

 

[Josheb]

I’m not saying that digital currency is the mark itself...

Good. Tell @Hobie.

 

[Josheb]

Now the early believers knew that `marks` on servants etc were not always visible to everyone as the master often put it behind the ear etc and the `pattern` was not always known by others.

Those marks would not be consistent with the text in question or, as I have suggested, the precedent of the phylacteries. Those are not behind the ear and they are visible.

As for the modern `etching` in a capsule under the skin it is...

It is completely removed from the normal reading of the Revelation 13:16-17 text and the precepts of original meaning, original understanding, and contrary to first precedent and the literal defining the figurative or symbolic.

One has to discard many exegetical precepts to arrive at implants.

Not everything in God`s word is understandable by the early believers or even us before the time.

I really wish people would stop repeating that nonsense because it completely defies the fact the book of Revelation was given explicitly for the purpose of revealing what had already occurred, what was happening at the time it was written, and what would come afterwards. The premise God revealing something and not revealing it is self-contradictory and self-refuting.

We may, in fact, be markedly more ignorant of God's revelation than those to whom it was first revealed. Symbols and imagery with which they were familiar was used, the meaning of some (if not many) of them likely lost to time.

 

[TibiasDad]

It was the Jewish priests who first wore robes of purple and scarlet, not the RCC.

And that by the command of God:

Exodus 39:1From the blue, purple and scarlet yarn they made woven garments for ministering in the sanctuary. They also made sacred garments for Aaron, as the Lord commanded Moses.

I suspect that the RCC followed suit.

Doug

 

[Marilyn C]

Symbols and imagery with which they were familiar was used, the meaning of some (if not many) of them likely lost to time.

`But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. ` (John 14: 26)

 

[Rella]

I’m not saying that digital currency is the mark itself, and I don’t think that a chip under the skin is the mark either, though I can’t completely rule it out.



Doug

I do not see how currency , digital or not could be considered a mark. We have been told a mark in the right hand or forehead.

Digital would be nothing to be held... though zi suppose a case for using the right hand could be made.... but NOT the forehead.

A microchip could be implanted anywhere.

 

[TibiasDad]

I do not see how currency , digital or not could be considered a mark. We have been told a mark in the right hand or forehead.

Digital would be nothing to be held... though zi suppose a case for using the right hand could be made.... but NOT the forehead.

A microchip could be implanted anywhere.

I don’t claim that digital currency is the mark! Digital currency is the systematic undergirding that will allow for a “mark” to be implemented for a global government to control the 8 billion people worldwide.

But your logic is flawed regarding a microchip, for though it could be implanted anywhere only means that the right hand or forehead are possible! It doesn’t mean that the mark could not be placed anywhere, but only that the edict will be to place it on the right hand or forehead.

Doug

 

[Wordsmith]

Digital currency has been around for more than half a century and no one's buying and selling is being controlled.

You haven't been made to turn in. your hard currency yet.

Don't be stick your head in the sand. It will come eventually and the powers that be will be able to control your money. This is showing up all around you. It is like the frog in boiling water story. It is already being slipped in on. you and you haven't even noticed.

Some businesses no longer accept cash, we now have reverse ATM's to put in your cash for a debit card.

Sure the words "digital currency" are not found in scripture and you can beat that dead horse until you find all of your finances in digital currency.

Open your eyes do some real research I believe you can figure out what is happening.

 

[Wordsmith]

I do not see how currency , digital or not could be considered a mark. We have been told a mark in the right hand or forehead.

Digital would be nothing to be held... though zi suppose a case for using the right hand could be made.... but NOT the forehead.

A microchip could be implanted anywhere.

Why can't we see the forest for the trees. Does it really matter if its a tattoo on your forehead or right hand or a micro chip in the same.

The point is the masses will be told how convenient what ever new system comes along is, and people for the most part will blindly follow along. It may start just as digital currency then once they have that noose around your neck you many be forced into a tattoo or micro chip or something we may not now know of now.

The point is the powers that be have the goal of total control of our lives and we will be eased into it and for many it will be willingly.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I would certainly not contradict that overreach by the government would love to see us all as obedient serfs under their total control. Power over others is a most potent, addictive drug.

However, the "mark" imposed by Revelation 13's Beast from the Land in honor of the Revelation 13 Sea Beast is a long past reality that was imposed on the people in Israel starting back in 19 BC, and lasting only until AD 66. It is not a threat for us or our future that we are to avoid at all costs.

The "mark" of the Beast was a coin: the Jerusalem-minted copy of the pagan Tyrian shekel, to be precise. The high priesthood demanded that this Tyrian shekel be the only accepted coin for use in paying the yearly temple tax, and in the temple for the buying and selling of sacrificial items used for worship. Any foreign currency brought by worshippers coming to the temple from any nation had to be exchanged for this Tyrian shekel by the money-changers (for a fee, of course). All those profits from the fees collected by the money-changers flowed into the pockets of the corrupt high priesthood. Quite conveniently, those fees for exchanging any foreign coins for the priesthood-approved Tyrian shekel copy started being collected at the same time when Herod's elaborate plans for renovating the temple were beginning. Surprise, surprise. Dear me, how to pay for this expensive Jerusalem temple renovation project...let me think...

This is why Christ was so irate at the operations of the money-changers when He said they had turned His Father's house into a "den of thieves". The money-changers were raking in huge profits for their masters at the expense of the people who were being forced to participate in an abominable practice. Why so abominable? Because of the images and inscriptions on this particular Tyrian shekel coin.

God had once commanded the people of Israel that the graven images of the pagan gods were to burned with fire. They were not to desire the silver or gold of them or take it unto themselves, because they were an abomination to God. They were not to even bring it into their house, because it was a "cursed thing", and they were to "utterly detest it" (Deuteronomy 7:25-26). Yet beginning in 19 BC, the high priesthood was not only permitting it, but was requiring that anyone coming to worship in the temple hand over this Tyrian shekel with its abominable images in God's house itself.

The Tyrian shekel had the forbidden graven image of the demi-god Herakles / Hercules on the front, with the inscription "Tyre the holy and city of refuge" stamped on it: Tyre - which was Satan the anointed cherub's city, and the home turf of Jezebel and her child-sacrificing idol worship being called "Holy". No wonder Christ was offended at the money-changers' activities. On the reverse side of the Tyrian shekel was the Roman eagle, with the initials "KP" stamped on it, standing for "Kratos Romaion", or "power of the Romans" authorizing the use of that coin which Rome had given the high priests permission to produce.

A set of these coins was also commonly worn in the forehead of a women's headdress, denoting her marital status (as in the lost coin parable).

When the Zealot rebellion against Rome cranked up in AD 66, Jerusalem's leaders abandoned the high priest's former requirement of this tribute to Rome and its gods, and started minting their own independent nation's currency, with the inscription "For the redemption of Zion" on them. The "mark" required for use in the temple was then dropped that year of AD 66.

 

[Josheb]

And that by the command of God:

Exodus 39:1From the blue, purple and scarlet yarn they made woven garments for ministering in the sanctuary. They also made sacred garments for Aaron, as the Lord commanded Moses.

I suspect that the RCC followed suit.

Doug

(josh shakes head)

If they did the Roman priesthood's garments were not something to original author, nor the original readers of Revelation 13:16-17 considered. The first century Christian reader did not consider non-existent existences. Whatever the mark was/is/will be, it was understood by the original audience to whom the revelation was revealed.

 

[Josheb]

`But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. ` (John 14: 26)

To whom was that said? Specifically, who is the "you" in that sentence?

 

[TibiasDad]

(josh shakes head)

If they did the Roman priesthood's garments were not something to original author, nor the original readers of Revelation 13:16-17 considered. The first century Christian reader did not consider non-existent existences. Whatever the mark was/is/will be, it was understood by the original audience to whom the revelation was revealed.

(Doug also shakes head)

I didn’t say they did, I merely pointed out that the Jewish priests wore those colors because they were commanded to wear them. Which is probably why the early RCC chose these colors!

The first century church would not have been aware of the RCC, this is true, but since the prophecy wasn’t fulfilled during that time, the expectations of the original hearers doesn’t have any bearing on us.

This is what the text says:

1) The Antichrist will be established as the global ruler.

2) His prophet, a second beast, will perform miracles, such as fire from the skies, and cause an image of the Antichrist to come to life.

3) All people, globally, will be forced to worship the image, and only those who truly follow Jesus will refuse at the cost of their lives and/or freedoms.

4) The second beast will require a mark upon either the right hand or the forehead in order to buy or sell! Thus, anyone who follows Jesus during this time will lose the ability to buy and sell, making income meaningless, and placing themselves under penalty of death.

The technical means of these events are not specified, thus, whatever technologies are available at that point in time will more than likely be used to accomplish these prophetic events.


Doug

 

[TATII]

Not everything in God`s word is understandable by the early believers or even us before the time.

True Marilyn C...true...to understand the scripture in any other way…is…to make all scripture relative to the domestic thinking of fallen humanity. The reason for this is because they have removed the “Spirit…the author of all scripture” from it…so that scripture can now be bent to fit the "man-gods" idea…of who or what is God…by whatever “intellectual” name or flavor you want to give it.

It’s purely Babylonian in the religious sense…it is the fulfillment of Romans 1:22-25…”Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.”

This explains why they see man as God…therefore they will quite “naturally” approach others in carnality…that fleshly…earthly wisdom from below. Remember…that ilk has always waged war against each other even…they cannot get along and will never get along. It’s observably worse when they are interacting with the son of God…and it can be seen openly on these forums…pretty much all of them.

It is called “enmity”…and if you watch them closely and long enough…they will attack whoever they perceive as weak…they throw their demonic principals of scriptural interpretation at their victims in a fast and furious manner. Whether one agrees or disagrees with these modern day Pharisee’s or not…they will always be contentious…and given to conflict. They must hold and protect what they have…they were driven to strive and labor for the image of god they have fashioned for themselves.

The reason for this…they are orphans…no father…slaves to the insufferable “man-god”…their primary focus is to provide and protect for themselves because their self created god cannot and no one else will. If you watch them long enough…they will make their displeasure with all those intolerable plebes who call themselves “Christians” and don’t know how to interpret the bible in the same glorious fashion as they themselves can…openly known…well of course it is the right thing to do…loving right?

Very little if any benefit will come of their discussion either. Well that is unless you are the gifted one with all the knowledge…they always seem feel quite gratified and satiated by putting others down…in the name of the Lord Yahshua. Only the most mature of Pharisee could ever hope to resist a carnal skirmish…for the rest of us...it's best to not give into the temptation of their decietful discussion…mark them as you go…do not get caught in their trap.

So…the next time you are thinking or talking about the “mark of the beast” consider these Tartuffe’s as I have described them here for you…because what you see in how they act and treat others will not resemble those who have “Father” written upon their foreheads. You will be looking straight at 6-66-666. If that is you…repent.

 

[Josheb]

(Doug also shakes head)

I didn’t say they did, I merely pointed out that the Jewish priests wore those colors because they were commanded to wear them. Which is probably why the early RCC chose these colors!

The first century church would not have been aware of the RCC, this is true, but since the prophecy wasn’t fulfilled during that time, the expectations of the original hearers doesn’t have any bearing on us.

This is what the text says:

1) The Antichrist will be established as the global ruler.

2) His prophet, a second beast, will perform miracles, such as fire from the skies, and cause an image of the Antichrist to come to life.

3) All people, globally, will be forced to worship the image, and only those who truly follow Jesus will refuse at the cost of their lives and/or freedoms.

4) The second beast will require a mark upon either the right hand or the forehead in order to buy or sell! Thus, anyone who follows Jesus during this time will lose the ability to buy and sell, making income meaningless, and placing themselves under penalty of death.

The technical means of these events are not specified, thus, whatever technologies are available at that point in time will more than likely be used to accomplish these prophetic events.


Doug

What's the topic of the op?

 

[TibiasDad]

What's the topic of the op?

I’m responding to your comments and I think what I have said is very much in line with the theme of the OP.

Doug