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Digital Currency, will it be used to control buying and selling?

Hobie

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We find this at the time the image of the beast comes along..
Revelation 13:15-17
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Buying and selling implies: (1) sellers, (2) buyers, (3) merchandise, and (4) the bargaining transaction, and here is something I came across on this issue..
"America may soon be poised to go cashless. Now, the nation must decide if ditching the dollar bill is a good idea.
Two-fifths of Americans used no cash in 2022. Back in 2015, by contrast, fewer than one-quarter of consumers went cashless, according to Pew surveys. In a separate poll, three-fifths of consumers told Gallup they used cash only on occasion last year, twice the share of five years ago...
Consumers used cash for 20 percent of all payments in 2021, down from 31 percent in 2016, according to the Federal Reserve. In place of cash, shoppers favored the credit card (28 percent) and debit card (29 percent).

People have literally been changing the way they pay for goods and services,? said Lee Rainie, director of internet and technology research at Pew.

COVID-19 hastened the cashless trend. The pandemic inspired fears, largely misguided, that the virus might spread on currency. Many consumers stopped carrying cash, spurring a national coin shortage.

I think its very much like the jump in e-commerce we saw during the pandemic,? said Ted Rossman, a senior industry analyst at Bankrate, the financial services company. ?I think we?re going to continue to see a slow evolution away from cash...

Take note, however, that the George Mason scholar shares the ACLU’s concern over shrinking privacy in financial transactions.

To illustrate the vulnerability of consumer data, in a widely circulated 2019 article, a Washington Post columnist purchased a pair of bananas at a big-box retailer with his credit cards.

“You might think my 29-cent swipe at Target would be just between me and my bank,” he reported. “Heavens, no. My banana generated data that’s probably worth more than the banana itself. It ended up with marketers, Target, Amazon, Google and hedge funds, to name a few.”

Credit card companies and retailers conspire to sell consumer data to advertisers, who use it to predict — and even to subtly influence — the shopper’s next move. In this transaction, the consumer is the product.

To counter the data spies and retain a modicum of free will, consumer advocates say, read the fine print on your card agreement, consider paying in cash, use a robust ad blocker and avoid clicking on anything that looks like a promotion.

“All this data, it’s not empowering you, it’s empowering somebody else,” Stanley said.

Soon, even the federal government may be able to harvest consumer data. Late last year, the Fed announced a pilot program for a central bank digital currency.

The digital dollar would offer a federal alternative to cryptocurrency, backed by the government. Citizens could open a bank account directly with the Fed, accessing digital funds on an app or a prepaid card, said David Waugh, managing editor at the American Institute for Economic Research, in a column for The Hill.

“Cash remains our strongest tool to promote financial inclusion while preserving privacy and security, and new digital tools should emulate it– not replace it,” said U.S. Rep. Jesús “Chuy” García, an Illinois Democrat, in support of legislation to develop a digital dollar.

But a digital dollar would also give the government “direct control over citizens’ bank accounts,” Waugh writes. China’s government has touted its own digital currency as a means to control its citizens. "
.. The cashless future is here. So is Big Brother.

Digital currency will mean control and you can be sure that what they do with it will not be with the individual...
 
Where is digital currency mentioned in scripture?
 
It is the means to control people`s `buying and selling.`
No it doesn't, and that is not an answer to my question. Where is digital currency mentioned in scripture?
 
No it doesn't, and that is not an answer to my question. Where is digital currency mentioned in scripture?
Why does it have to be mentioned in scripture? It is part of the `mark` (the name / authorization) that gives the authorization for someone to `buy and sell.`
 
Because scripture, and scripture alone is authoritative.

No, it is not. That is utter hogwash.

Digital currency has been around for more than half a century and no one's buying and selling is being controlled.
Yes, I agree that scripture alone is the authority and we can see it being fulfilled throughout history with details that weren`t mentioned in God`s word.

Yes DC`s have been around for years, however, the Central Bank`s Digital Currencies (CBDC) are able to control people`s spending. If you don`t comply with say Climate Change requirements, or have a bad social credit score then you can be penalized. None of that is possible with the other DC`s.
 
It is not.
Then be very careful when ANYONE tells you ___________X________ is the mark. Whatever the mark was or will be, it is something the original readers would have recognized. The book of Revelation was first written to them, and it was written to reveal to them what was coming.
Neither is the trinity, which you know,
False equivalence. The doctrine of the Trinity is reached by accurately compiling what IS stated in scripture, not what is NOT stated in scripture. Be very careful of people who try to use the false equivalence fallacy to persuade you to their beliefs. Neither scripture nor the Holy Spirit employ fallacy.
Details of God`s prophetic word are revealed in time.
Non sequtur and off topic. That God reveals His prophetic word is NOT in dispute. What is in dispute is the claim digital currency is the mark of the beast.

It is not.

If it were, then God would have revealed that by now. ;) Every year otherwise well-meaning and earnest, devote Christians of a certain eschatological persuasion think they know what the mark is and they tell everyone.

Not once have any of them been correct.

Not one of them can state where scripture states ______X________ is the mark. That is a sign. It is a sign they do not know what they're talking about and probably teaching falsely. YOU, Marilyn C, had enough integrity to acknowledge there is not specific explicit verse. YOU went on record. YOU already have more integrity than everyone else I asked that question. I had to ask a few times, but you gave the only true and correct answer where others did not. The great irony is that not only is the inability to provide scripture a sign they don't know what they're talking about, but in the last days false teachings will increase 😯. There are attributes prescribed to the mark and its time and place that should be learned and heeded and used for discernment. The scriptures that teach us about the "mark" preclude it from being digital currency (or computer chip implants, or antiviral non-vaccinations, etc.).

The failure of this opening post should be obvious to EVERYONE simply by reading the title. How? Because scripture does NOT say it is currency (of any kind) that controls buying and selling. It's a mark on the hand or forehead, not binary code in cyberspace. The mark is given. Do you think they are giving money away? Even if one has currency (a loaf of bread costs a day's wages) they cannot buy or sell without the mark. EVERYONE, regardless of their eschatology should immediately repudiate this op and encourage its author to be more circumspect with his learning and more responsible with his prognostications lest he be relegated to the ever-growing heap of false teachers teaching false teachings. Another reason the readers should be apprehensive is because of the word "implies". A third is the abject absence of other scripture because scripture itself is the first best tool for understanding scripture. This op takes one portion of one verse and then immediately leaps twenty centuries into the future with what amounts to a guess.


A mark is used, not currency.

Revelation 13:16-17
And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

It is a mark, not a currency.
 
Digital currency will mean control and you can be sure that what they do with it will not be with the individual...
I've been looking into this lately and that statement is incorrect, at least for Bitcoin which cuts out the government. You can't inflate (print more) Bitcoin unlike fiat money. You don't store it in a bank or bond where the government can get it.
  1. Bitcoin is permissionless
  2. Bitcoin is immune to seizure
  3. Bitcoin is censorship resistant
  4. Bitcoin is decentralized
  5. Bitcoin has a limited supply
  6. Bitcoin is open source
  7. Bitcoin provides anonymity
  8. Bitcoin promotes democracy
  9. Bitcoin is a push system
  10. Bitcoin is real money
  11. All you need is an internet connection to use Bitcoin
  12. Bitcoin is transparent
  13. Bitcoin is freedom

Aside: My son's friend's brother bought some way back and now is worth 100 million ... on the other hand my son's friend reformatted his disk drive and now the Bitcoin is gone forever
 
Aside: My son's friend's brother bought some way back and now is worth 100 million ... on the other hand my son's friend reformatted his disk drive and now the Bitcoin is gone forever
I guess he cannot buy or sell. It must be the mark!
 
I guess he cannot buy or sell. It must be the mark!
LOL .... being clumsy or stupid is probably not the "mark of the beast" :ROFLMAO:

.... actually, the kid that did accidentally erase the key to access his Bitcoin is very bright .. .but not on that occasion. He's saved the hard drive hoping there is a technology in the future to restore it. I got to ask my son how much his friend lost to make the story more interesting .. it was a long time back so the amount could be BIG... lol
 
Because scripture, and scripture alone is authoritative.

No, it is not. That is utter hogwash.

Digital currency has been around for more than half a century and no one's buying and selling is being controlled.
Digital currency, in general, is not used to control buying and selling; however, CBDCs (Central Bank Digital Currencies) are intended to do exactly that, and China is already using its state-controlled digital currency, in conjunction with its social credit system, as a means of extreme control.

The WEF is pressing governments to introduce CBDCs asap.
 
Digital currency, in general, is not used to control buying and selling;
Tell the op.
...however, CBDCs (Central Bank Digital Currencies) are intended to do exactly that, and China is already using its state-controlled digital currency, in conjunction with its social credit system, as a means of extreme control.

The WEF is pressing governments to introduce CBDCs asap.
Which might mean CBDC's are the control, but not DC, thereby making the op incorrect.

Do you think CBDCs are the "mark" of Revelation 13?
 
Tell the op.

Which might mean CBDC's are the control, but not DC, thereby making the op incorrect.

Do you think CBDCs are the "mark" of Revelation 13?
My view, at present (I'm not completely sure), is that the MotB is primarily a spiritual/moral matter, with the hand and head symbolising what we do and what we think; however, it could have a physical counterpart (perhaps a chip in the hand or head) now that technology has enabled this.
 
My view, at present (I'm not completely sure), is that the MotB is primarily a spiritual/moral matter, with the hand and head symbolising what we do and what we think; however, it could have a physical counterpart (perhaps a chip in the hand or head) now that technology has enabled this.
Do you subscribe to the exegetical principle of first understanding the meaning of the text as the original author and his original audience would have understood the text?

How about the exegetical principle of using scripture itself to understand scripture before looking to outside sources for information?
 
Do you subscribe to the exegetical principle of first understanding the meaning of the text as the original author and his original audience would have understood the text?

How about the exegetical principle of using scripture itself to understand scripture before looking to outside sources for information?
Yes and yes, which is why I stated that I believe the MotB refers primarily to spiritual/moral characteristics.

The hand is symbolic of what man does (his works, e.g. whatever your hand finds to do, etc.) and the head of what he thinks.

A "beast", in prophetic symbolism, refers to a kingdom (or its ruler, as representing that kingdom), so the mark would be something that identifies the person as belonging to that kingdom. The MotB is about the kingdom of darkness, so it would be to do with evil works and thinking; however, none of this precludes a physical counterpart, particularly if an entirely digital, and centrally controlled currency is brought in.
 
Yes and yes, which is why I stated that I believe the MotB refers primarily to spiritual/moral characteristics.
How then would John have intended the mark to mean an imbedded chip or CBDCs? How would have readers understood the mark as such?
The hand is symbolic of what man does (his works, e.g. whatever your hand finds to do, etc.) and the head of what he thinks.
Perhaps. That does make a certain amount of sense. Where's the scripture to support that interpretation whereby the hand is considered indicative or symbolic of works and the forehead considered indicative or symbolic of thought? Do you think the scriptures about tying God's commands to the hand and the forehead are relevant? (see Ex. 13:9; Dt. 6:8)
A "beast", in prophetic symbolism, refers to a kingdom (or its ruler, as representing that kingdom),
Supporting scripture, please - particularly any passage specifically supporting this is tied to computer implants or CBDCs.
The MotB is about the kingdom of darkness...
Supporting scripture please - particularly any passage specifically supporting this is tied to computer implants or CBDCs.
....none of this precludes a physical counterpart, particularly if an entirely digital, and centrally controlled currency is brought in.
Let's not beg the question. Let's not assume things that must first be proven (or at least justified.


Given the fact we agree whatever the "mark" is, it MUST be something the original author and his original audience would understand, AND the "mark" is best understood first by means of other scripture, let's consider and apply those two precepts. Sho me the scriptures supporting the specifics of your views, even if those views are tentative or "possibilities." Prove them where possible. Evidence them where not definitively provable, and do so without begging the question.
 
How then would John have intended the mark to mean an imbedded chip or CBDCs? How would have readers understood the mark as such?
I didn't say that that's what John intended to convey to the original readers, nor do I think it.

What I have in mind is that the meaning that has been applied, down through the centuries (i.e. spiritual/moral meaning) might also have a modern physical counterpart that did not exist before. Can I prove it? No; nor would I teach it as fact.

It's just that, looking at what's happening nowadays with a clear drive towards a one world government, based on the Chinese system of total control, together with numerous countries planning CBDCs, and the fact that they would facilitate complete control, by governments/NGOs, over the practicalities of life (e.g. buying and selling), and the fact that chips in the hand are already a reality in some places, it appears that there could well be a literal mark, in the hand or head, which would be necessary to buy and sell.

Perhaps. That does make a certain amount of sense. Where's the scripture to support that interpretation whereby the hand is considered indicative or symbolic of works and the forehead considered indicative or symbolic of thought? Do you think the scriptures about tying God's commands to the hand and the forehead are relevant? (see Ex. 13:9; Dt. 6:8)
Hand Symbolic of Works (a few examples from many)

Ex. 3:20 (KJV) And I will stretch out my hand, and smite Egypt with all my wonders which I will do in the midst thereof: and after that he will let you go.

Deut. 3:24 O Lord GOD, thou hast begun to shew thy servant thy greatness, and thy mighty hand: for what God is there in heaven or in earth, that can do according to thy works, and according to thy might?

Ecc. 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

Regarding the forehead: since the hand already deals with works, I've always thought that the forehead represents thought (the brain is behind it, after all).

Yes, I do think that places like Ex. 13:9 and Dt. 6:8 are relevant.

Ex. 13:8-10
8 ¶ And thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying, This is done because of that which the LORD did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt.
9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD’s law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORDbrought thee out of Egypt.
10 Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year.

In other words: remember the LORD, what he has done and his law. The hand is a reminder of what God has done and the forehead of meditating on his law.

Deut. 6:4-8
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

This is similar: reminders of God's law in what they do and what they think.

Supporting scripture, please - particularly any passage specifically supporting this is tied to computer implants or CBDCs.
No, not chips and CBDCs; but, buying and selling, control of one's life, the evil kingdom, etc.. The modern application of such principles leads me to think that chips and CBDCs fit extremely well.

Supporting scripture please - particularly any passage specifically supporting this is tied to computer implants or CBDCs.
Applying biblical principles to modern life, it's possible to see what is happening and draw close parallels. The underlying principles are what matter, not the specific application of them, which could vary in different ages.


Given the fact we agree whatever the "mark" is, it MUST be something the original author and his original audience would understand, AND the "mark" is best understood first by means of other scripture, let's consider and apply those two precepts. Sho me the scriptures supporting the specifics of your views, even if those views are tentative or "possibilities." Prove them where possible. Evidence them where not definitively provable, and do so without begging the question.
A beast, in biblical prophecy, is a kingdom (see Daniel, for several examples).

A mark in the forehead sets people apart from others (it doesn't have to be visible, although it could be). For a positive example, there's Ez. 8, where those who sigh and cry at the abominations are marked in their foreheads (i.e. as good guys) so that they are unharmed. The MotB is clearly very negative, and sets apart those who have it for damnation.

Only those who have the MotB are able to buy and sell; so, the powers that be control buying and selling, limiting it to those who are marked out, whether visibly or not, as being on their side. I believe that this principle has applied at times, in the past (e.g. in parts of the Roman Empire, when those characterised by not being "good Romans", by works and words, found it hard to buy and sell); however, with the advent of CBDCs and chips, it would be possible to do this in spades, worldwide, making it impossible for anyone to buy or sell without a chip.

This is not something new, in terms of the principles involved, it is merely those same principles that have applied, down through the ages, now being applied in a modern setting.

This is all rather "off the cuff" and mostly from memory, so it's a bit rough around the edges, but I think that the core is sound.
 
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