Decisional Regeneration vs. Divine Regeneration

[Carbon]

What is decisional regeneration? Decisional regeneration is an error that contradicts scripture by attributing to people the ability to regenerate themselves.
Almost all of the world religions teach that salvation results atleast partially from an individuals own good works. Though this idea may look attractive to some of us, we are not at liberty to devise our own plan. God's word is the final authority.

Let's look at the relationship between decisional regeneration and alter calls.
A lot of Christians are amazed to learn that the "alter call" was virtually unknown until the time of Charles G. Finney (1792-1875) Amazingly, this practice has become so popular that it has become natural to see an alter call after preaching the gospel. However, this practice was introduced to the church in the third decade of the 19th century. That's less than 200 years ago. Before this, there was no alter call. You also cannot find this practice in scripture.

 

[Josheb]

It might be wise and effective to define the terms objectively (rather than assigning orthodoxy beforehand) so people know what they're being asked.

A lot of Christians are amazed to learn that the "alter call" was virtually unknown until the time of Charles G. Finney (1792-1875) Amazingly, this practice has become so popular that it has become natural to see an alter call after preaching the gospel. However, this practice was introduced to the church in the third decade of the 19th century. That's less than 200 years ago. Before this, there was no alter call. You also cannot find this practice in scripture.

It was Wesley who first promoted experientialism over creedalism as a means of "knowing" one's own salvation. Finney learned from the Baptists and Methodists growing up and brought his experience to the Presbyterians (although I am not sure how he ever bore the label "Presbyterian" with any integrity since he denied humanity's depravity, God's preservation of the saint, propitiatory atonement, and embraced perfectionism. If he hadn't been an abolitionist and his preaching brought so many to Christ, I suspect he'd go down in history as a heretic. At any rate, there's a direct line from Wesley, through Finney (along with the other revivalists of his time) and the western expansion (in the US) to the 19th century's Restoration Movement sects with their appeal to purity and ever-present apocalypse. As experientialism grow so did the perception choice or volition was salient in salvation and in more recent times that prompted an embrace of what's now called Traditionalism or Provisionism because the doctrine of Total Depravity had to be rejected in sinners are able to choose God out of their own (still unregenerate) faculties. The rejection of TD is probably Finney's single greatest point of departure from orthodox Calvinism. From there everything else becomes fodder for doubt, question, and denial. What fills the void?

Man

As far as the poll goes, God, and God alone regenerates the person dead in sin. A corpse cannot revive itself. Soteriologically speaking, the sinner's will is irrelevant prior regeneration.

 

[ShepherdsPie]

No one can save oneself (be regenerated) by their works. It is only by the working of the Holy Spirit of God that we are drawn to the Savior of the world.

 

[Red Baker]

The Gospel Is Not Involved In Regeneration.... The Condition of Man precludes it.

The gospel cannot help those who are dead (Gen 2:17; Eph 2:1-3; Col 2:13). The gospel cannot help those who cannot see it (John 3:3). The gospel cannot help those who cannot hear it (John 8:43). The gospel cannot help those who cannot understand it (John 8:43; Rom 3:11). The gospel cannot help those who will not understand it (Rom 3:11).f) The gospel cannot help those who will not seek God (Ps 14:2-3; Rom 3:11).g) The gospel cannot help those who cannot please God (Rom 8:8). The gospel cannot help those who cannot be subject to it (Rom 8:7). The gospel cannot help even if one preached from the dead (Luke 16:31). The gospel cannot help those who are beyond any reformation (Isa 26:10).k) The gospel cannot help those beyond the Spirit’s influence (1 Cor 2:14).l) The gospel cannot help those at war with the Spirit (Gal 5:17). The gospel cannot help those at war with God (Rom 5:8; 8:7). The gospel cannot help those without any fear of God (Rom 3:18; Ps 36:1). The gospel cannot help those that do not have any faith (Heb 11:6; Ps 10:4). The gospel cannot help those who think it is foolishness (1 Cor 1:18). The gospel cannot help those whose minds are blinded by Satan (2 Cor 4:3-4). The gospel cannot help those without any strength (Rom. 5:6).

The Denials of Man’s Involvement precludes it.

Scripture denies man’s will in regeneration (John 1:13; Rom 9:16). Scripture denies man’s ability to please God (Rom 8:8; Phil 2:13). Scripture denies any works by man (Rom 9:16; Eph 2:9; Titus 3:5). Scripture denies any activity contrary to grace (Rom 4:4; 11:6; Eph 2:5). Scripture affirms only God’s will involved in it (John 3:8; 5:21; Rom 9:15).

The Results of Regeneration preclude it.

Faith results from regeneration (Acts 18:27; Gal 5:22; Eph 1:19; 2 Pet 1:1). Any activity toward God is the result of regeneration (Phil 2:13; Ps 110:3). We were regenerated for good works, not because of them (Eph 2:10; 4:24). Ability to see, hear, or know God is by regeneration (Pro 20:12; John 8:47). Faith and works are evidence (Acts 10:34-35; 1 John 2:29; 3:7, 14; 4:7; 5:1, 4).4)

The Means of Regeneration preclude it.

Regeneration is ascribed to God (John 1:13; 2 Cor 4:6; 1 Pet 1:3). Regeneration is ascribed to the Son (John 5:21, 25-29; 17:2; 1 Pet 1:23). Regeneration is ascribed to the Spirit of God (John 3:8; Ecc 11:5). Faith results from regeneration (Acts 18:27; Gal 5:22; Eph 1:19; 2 Pet 1:1).b) Any activity toward God is the result of regeneration (Phil 2:13; Ps 110:3). We were regenerated for good works, not because of them (Eph 2:10; 4:24). Ability to see, hear, or know God is by regeneration (Pro 20:12; John 8:47). Faith and works are evidence (Acts 10:34-35; 1 John 2:29; 3:7, 14; 4:7; 5:1, 4).

The Means of Regeneration preclude it. Regeneration is ascribed to God (John 1:13; 2 Cor 4:6; 1 Pet 1:3). Regeneration is ascribed to the Son (John 5:21, 25-29; 17:2; 1 Pet 1:23).c) Regeneration is ascribed to the Spirit of God (John 3:8; Ecc 11:5)

The Description of Regeneration precludes it. It is called a birth (John 1:13; 3:3-8; 1 John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1, 4, 18). It is called a quickening (Eph 2:1, 5; Col 2:13). It is called a regeneration (Titus 3:5; Matt 19:28). It is called a creation (Eph 2:10; 4:24; Jam 1:18).e) It is called a begetting (Jam 1:18; 1 Pet 1:3; 1 John 5:1, 18). It is called a resurrection (John 5:25; Rev 20:6; Matt 19:28). It is called a renewing (Titus 3:5).6)

The Purpose of the Gospel precludes it.

The gospel reveals the power of God to those already saved (1 Cor 1:18, 24). The gospel brings life and immortality to light (1 Tim 1:10). Paul sought to preach the gospel to saints already with faith (Rom 1:15-17). The gospel is to give men assurance of eternal life (1 John 5:13). The gospel is to convert men from error to the truth (Jam 5:19-20). The gospel is to give men fellowship with God and His Son (1 John 1:1-5). The gospel would leave salvation shaky rather than sure (Rom 4:16; 8:29-34).

The Examples of Regeneration preclude it. John the Baptist was regenerated before birth (Luke 1:15; Rom 8:14; Gal 5:22). Cornelius was regenerated before hearing the gospel (Acts 10:2-4, 34-35). Lydia’s heart was opened before rather than by the gospel (Acts 16:14).d) Ministers are to feed sheep (John 21:15-17) and perfect saints (Eph 4:12).8)

The Glory of God precludes it.

Regeneration, an integral part of salvation, is all of God (1 Cor 1:26-31). God will not allow men to boast or to obligate Him (Rom 4:4; Eph 2:9).

 

[JIM]

The Examples of Regeneration preclude it. John the Baptist was regenerated before birth (Luke 1:15; Rom 8:14; Gal 5:22). Cornelius was regenerated before hearing the gospel (Acts 10:2-4, 34-35). Lydia’s heart was opened before rather than by the gospel (Acts 16:14).d) Ministers are to feed sheep (John 21:15-17) and perfect saints (Eph 4:12).8)

Can you say eisegesis?

 

[Josheb]

No one can save oneself (be regenerated) by their works. It is only by the working of the Holy Spirit of God that we are drawn to the Savior of the world. View attachment 916

Absolutely correct, but the question is whether or not the HS' working is predicated on the sinner's unregenerate belief. Decisionalists would agree with and wholly affirm your statement (they'd simply read it to have unstated meaning (involving human volition).

 

[ShepherdsPie]

Right, Josh. The way I see it, God knew and chose His Elect from the very beginning, from before the foundation of the world. ….But, as we know from scripture, we are all sinners, and I believe that Jesus died to redeem the elect sinners. Paul is a good example of this insomuch as he himself was a chosen vessel and yet, he adamantly persecuted Christians.

Thoughts?

…for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, Romans 3:23-24 (NKJV)

But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. Acts 9:15 (NKJV)

Lu

 

[ShepherdsPie]

I’m not sure about those who were not chosen before the foundation of the world. Personally, and I know I’m in the minority in this, I believe that Christ died for the chosen, and also for those not chosen. I truly believe the Savior died for the whole world because I discern John 3:16 to say exactly this. Now listen to what our Savior says here in the final letter to us in the book of Revelation:
"I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star." And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

- Revelation 22:16-17 (NKJV)

Lu

 

[CrowCross]

People are dead....and need to be spiritually regenerated.
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins--------> 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!

You can't come to Christ unless the Father grants it.
John 6:65 Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him.”

God has to open your heart...regenerate it....Lydia style.
Acts 16:14 One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.

Many see "salvation" as a man drowning in a lake....as the man is coming up for air the last time a life preserver is thrown to him...all he has to do is DECIDE to reach out and grab it and become saved....In reality the man is already dead and laying on the bottom of the lake...lifeless...God Himself has to jump in and pull the man to shore and resuscitate the man dead in his sins and trespasses.

 

[Josheb]

Many see "salvation" as a man drowning in a lake....as the man is coming up for air the last time a life preserver is thrown to him...all he has to do is DECIDE to reach out and grab it and become saved....In reality the man is already dead and laying on the bottom of the lake...lifeless...God Himself has to jump in and pull the man to shore and resuscitate the man dead in his sins and trespasses.

Amen!

I have used a similar analogy many times. The will is irrelevant.

 

[JIM]

Many see "salvation" as a man drowning in a lake....as the man is coming up for air the last time a life preserver is thrown to him...all he has to do is DECIDE to reach out and grab it and become saved....In reality the man is already dead and laying on the bottom of the lake...lifeless...God Himself has to jump in and pull the man to shore and resuscitate the man dead in his sins and trespasses.

That is a really perverse view of what it means to be dead in trespasses and sins. A person dead in trespasses and sins can walk, run, eat, drink, think, speak, learn from his parents, schoolteachers, and college professors. Many become intellectual giants. All of that and you think that God is incapable of communicating with him in any way whatsoever such that he is capable of understanding. Truly amazing to think so little of God's ability.

 

[JIM]

Amen!

I have used a similar analogy many times. The will is irrelevant.

A terrible analogy. The whole of God's word is apparently irrelevant.

 

[ShepherdsPie]

People are dead....and need to be spiritually regenerated.
Eph 2:1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins--------> 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!

Whoever is made alive in Christ has been regenerated by the grace of God.

 

[CrowCross]

That is a really perverse view of what it means to be dead in trespasses and sins. A person dead in trespasses and sins can walk, run, eat, drink, think, speak, learn from his parents, schoolteachers, and college professors. Many become intellectual giants. All of that and you think that God is incapable of communicating with him in any way whatsoever such that he is capable of understanding. Truly amazing to think so little of God's ability.

How does that person come to Jesus if the Father doesn't grant it?

John 6:65? And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

Dead in trespass and sin refers to your spirit. To your position concerning salvation. Yes, you may be able to reuse, eat, drink etc......but your relationship with God is not there.

 

[CrowCross]

Whoever is made alive in Christ has been regenerated by the grace of God.

Some here want to preach that without the Holy Spirit one can find God.

 

[Carbon]

How does that person come to Jesus if the Father doesn't grant it?

They don't

 

[Josheb]

A terrible analogy.

Prove it.

 

[CrowCross]

A lot of Christians are amazed to learn that the "alter call" was virtually unknown until the time of Charles G. Finney (1792-1875) Amazingly, this practice has become so popular that it has become natural to see an alter call after preaching the gospel. However, this practice was introduced to the church in the third decade of the 19th century. That's less than 200 years ago. Before this, there was no alter call. You also cannot find this practice in scripture.

I understand your point...many people who answer the "alter call' are responding on pure emotion as it often only last several days.

But, some people are actually saved during this "process". That is the Holy Spirit uses the message of the evangelist and changes ones heart...regenerates them...and in response to that the person responds to the alter call.

 

[Red Baker]

Can you say eisegesis?

Yes I can......".....gesis...." Better known as Genesis.....the beginning of all false gospels preached in this world~under this banner you will find all who teach and preach that man is not what the scriptures said he is~ at enmity against God....not just an enemy, which is bad enough, but he is at constant war against the God of heaven and earth.

 

[Carbon]

I understand your point...many people who answer the "alter call' are responding on pure emotion as it often only last several days.

Yes.

But, some people are actually saved during this "process". That is the Holy Spirit uses the message of the evangelist and changes ones heart...regenerates them...and in response to that the person responds to the alter call.

Oh sure, I agree some are saved during this process. Some dont know it but they are not being saved then because of their decision, they are just expressing their heart because of what the Spirit has done. It is just very misleading. And the people who started it, like Finney was a heritic IMO.