COL 1: 18

[prism]

Colossians 1:18 (KJV) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Looking at Colossians 1:18, I ask, "How could the church exist in the Old Testament when the incarnation and resurrection had not happened yet?"

 

[Arial]

Colossians 1:18 (KJV) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Looking at Colossians 1:18, I ask, "How could the church exist in the Old Testament when the incarnation and resurrection had not happened yet?"

wscal.edu/the-church-in-the-old-testament/

 

[Eleanor]

Colossians 1:18 (KJV) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Looking at Colossians 1:18, I ask, "How could the church exist in the Old Testament when the incarnation and resurrection had not happened yet?"

The same way he did Ro 3:25, Heb 9:15, 11:40.

 

[Fred]

Colossians 1:18 (KJV) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Looking at Colossians 1:18, I ask, "How could the church exist in the Old Testament when the incarnation and resurrection had not happened yet?"

The NT Church began as described in Acts 2:4.

Christ said said that He will build His church (Matthew 16:18).

 

[Eleanor]

The NT Church began as described in Acts 2:4.

Christ said said that He will build His church (Matthew 16:18).

All those of faith in the promise (Ge 15:5, seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) are the same one olive tree (Ro 11:17-23).

 

[CrowCross]

The NT Church began as described in Acts 2:4.

Christ said said that He will build His church (Matthew 16:18).

I agree.
The OT Jews looked forward to the promise of the messiah....we look back.

 

[prism]

wscal.edu/the-church-in-the-old-testament/

Acts 4:13 ESV
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished. And they recognized that they had been with Jesus.

 

[prism]

The same way he did Ro 3:25, Heb 9:15, 11:40.

Guess I missed the connection of the Church being in the Old Testament.

 

[prism]

The NT Church began as described in Acts 2:4.

Christ said said that He will build His church (Matthew 16:18).

Agreed.

 

[Arial]

Acts 4:13 ESV
Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished. And they recognized that they had been with Jesus.

??

 

[Eleanor]

Guess I missed the connection of the Church being in the Old Testament.

Study the NT.

There is one olive tree, made up of all true believers, both OT and NT, from which unbelieving Israel has been cut off, while only the believing remnant remains, just as also only a believing remnant of Gentiles are included (Ro 11).

 

[prism]

??

I can't explain the verse any better than how it is written.

 

[prism]

Study the NT.

There is one olive tree, made up of all true believers, both OT and NT, from which unbelieving Israel has been cut off, while only the believing remnant remains, just as also only a believing remnant of Gentiles are included (Ro 11).

I was looking at the verses you first gave me (Ro 3:25, Heb 9:15, 11:40. ), and saw no connection.

 

[Eleanor]

Colossians 1:18 (KJV) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Looking at Colossians 1:18, I ask, "How could the church exist in the Old Testament when the incarnation and resurrection had not happened yet?"

I was looking at the verses you first gave me (Ro 3:25, Heb 9:15, 11:40. ), and saw no connection.

There is one olive tree, made up of all true believers, both OT and NT saints, from which unbelieving Israel has been cut off, while only the believing remnant of Israel remains in the one olive tree, just as also only a believing remnant of Gentiles are included in the one olive tree (Ro 11:17-23).

Ro 3:25 - he left the sins committed beforehand (OT church of the one olive tree) unpunished (they were punished later) on the cross
Heb 9:15 - to set free those who are called, he died as a ransom from the sins committed under the first covenant.
Heb 11:40 - only together with us would they be made perfect

 

[Arial]

I can't explain the verse any better than how it is written.

Did you look at the link? The word translated "church" in the NT is ekklesia. It means an assembly. It is derived from the Greek preposition ek, meaning "out of" and the verb kaleo meaning "called out". So it is an assembly of the called out ones.

It is the same word used in the Greek OT. Deut 4:10 "on the day of the ekklesia." This was the assembly at Horeb, when the Lord spoke directly to the Israelites.

Deut 9:10;18:16 it is that day is referenced by the Law "on the day of the ekklesis."

When David speaks to Goliath (1 Sam 17th:47)"all this ekklesia shall know.

And so on.

Sp my point is that "church" is an assembly of the called out ones---God's people. Whether in the OT or the NT. The NT is a continuation of the OT, not separate from it. It is all the same story. The history of redemption. The NT is what the OT made way for. The new covenant. The coming of the Savior and the one who sheds the blood of the covenant. There was never a time when Messiah did not exist.

 

[EarlyActs]

Any NT discussion of the remnant that believes, in ancient Israel, always distinguishes between the whole race-nation and this remnant.

 

[prism]

There is one olive tree, made up of all true believers, both OT and NT saints, from which unbelieving Israel has been cut off, while only the believing remnant of Israel remains in the one olive tree, just as also only a believing remnant of Gentiles are included in the one olive tree (Ro 11:17-23).

It says their own olive tree.. So we are grafted into their own tree?

Romans 11:24 ESV
For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

 

[prism]

Did you look at the link? The word translated "church" in the NT is ekklesia. It means an assembly. It is derived from the Greek preposition ek, meaning "out of" and the verb kaleo meaning "called out". So it is an assembly of the called out ones.

Yes, and 'assembly'/'congregation' in the Septuagint is sunagogue (synagogue) referring to a 'coming together (as in synthesis)

 

[CrowCross]

Is there two sides to heaven...the old testament saints and the new testament saints?

 

[prism]

Is there two sides to heaven...the old testament saints and the new testament saints?

define heaven.