Can we reverse the order?

[Carbon]

There are many verses which apply an order of arrangement that it just cannot be changed.

Let’s take John 3:3 for example. Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Obviously seeing and entering the kingdom of God belong to the application of redemption. And our Lord Jesus indicates that apart from the new birth (regeneration) there cannot be this seeing or entering into the kingdom of God. It follows that regeneration is prior and that it would plainly be impossible to reverse the order and say that man is regenerated by seeing or entering the kingdom of God. No, a man enters the kingdom of God by regeneration. As Jesus says in John 3:6 that which is born of the spirit is spirit.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[prism]

It's always struck me as weird that people can comprehend with the 'natural mind', things (spiritual insights) which it would take to begin to exercise their 'free will' to 'accept' Jesus.

(1Co 2:10) But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
(1Co 2:11) For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

(1Co 2:14) But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Alive]

All at the same time. When the Father placed us into Christ.
“For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,”

(Colossians 1:13 NAS20)

Accordance

accordance.bible

 

[LeviR]

There are many verses which apply an order of arrangement that it just cannot be changed.

Let’s take John 3:3 for example. Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Obviously seeing and entering the kingdom of God belong to the application of redemption. And our Lord Jesus indicates that apart from the new birth (regeneration) there cannot be this seeing or entering into the kingdom of God. It follows that regeneration is prior and that it would plainly be impossible to reverse the order and say that man is regenerated by seeing or entering the kingdom of God. No, a man enters the kingdom of God by regeneration. As Jesus says in John 3:6 that which is born of the spirit is spirit.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
If the regeneration you speak of enables man to both see and enter the kingdom of God, it cannot be done while in our current flesh and blood nature. The regeneration then is when man is born of the Spirit and is spirit himself by resurrection.
This become clear when Jesus says that the one born of the Spirit and is spirit himself is like the wind and you cannot tell from where he comes or where he goes.
A resurrected person who is now called spirit, is like the angels who cannot be seen unless man’s eyes are opened to see them. An angel might be standing beside you and you would not know it unless he opened your eyes to see him.
This is how the resurrected saints will be. You won’t be able to tell from where they came or follow them wherever they go, cause they’re like the wind.

 

[JIM]

It's always struck me as weird that people can comprehend with the 'natural mind', things (spiritual insights) which it would take to begin to exercise their 'free will' to 'accept' Jesus.

(1Co 2:10) But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
(1Co 2:11) For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.

(1Co 2:14) But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

That is such a misunderstood passaged. The "us" in 1 Corinthians 2 is not you. The entire second chapter of 1 Corinthians is Paul's declaration and defense of his (and the other prophets' and apostles') divinely inspired revelation by the Holy Spirit.

1Co 2:3 And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, 4 and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

Paul says there that your faith rests upon the message brought to you by him through the power of God. The natural person in verse 14 is not the unregenerated; but rather, the non-apostle. The spiritual persons there are not the regenerated, but rather the prophets and apostles who, through the Holy Spirit, were the divinely inspired authors of scripture.

The very next chapter, Paul says to his audience, "to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints (1:2), that he "could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh" (3:1).

 

[prism]

The natural person in verse 14 is not the unregenerated; but rather, the non-apostle.

Could you please present some Scriptural proof for this assertion above?
(I agree, the 'us' in 2:10 pertains to the apostles and not 'us').

The spiritual persons there are not the regenerated,

His point is that it takes regeneration to properly discern and understand what the inspired writers (prophets/apostles) are speaking of.

Galatians 6:1 (KJV) Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Now, can you please address the OP?

 

[JIM]

His point is that it takes regeneration to properly discern and understand what the inspired writers (prophets/apostles) are speaking of.

No, his point is that he has been divinely inspired and we are not. It has nothing to do with regeneration.

 

[prism]

No, his point is that he has been divinely inspired and we are not. It has nothing to do with regeneration.

So the natural mind can discern the things of God, though Scripture seem to indicate otherwise? That has been my point.

1 Corinthians 2:14 NKJV
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[JIM]

So the natural mind can discern the things of God though Scripture seem to indicate otherwise? That has been my point.

1 Corinthians 2:14 NKJV
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Go back and reread my post #6

 

[prism]

Go back and reread my post #6

Actually #6 is my post. Try again.