Can A Person Be a Monergist and a Synergist At the Same Time? Can One Be Neither?

[Arial]

Well if your a natural man one second. not able to make a decision because you can not uderstand anythi8ng.

To being born again the next second. and at the same time, have faith to be justified by faith (it is all at the same time) then how else would I see it?

Maybe what you are seeing is incorrect. You are determining what God needs to do, and what needs to happen, and what you need to do, (choose) in order for you to be saved. I readily admit that is because of the reading of the word. We are justified by faith. Salvation comes by grace, through faith. But this idea of "choosing whether to accept or reject the offer of salvation" has precluded your ability to see it any way but the way in which you do see it. (It causes much confusion, in many places, even when the person does not know they are confused. If many people over many posts have pointed out the same thing, and shown why, it would seem that, instead of claiming no one understands them, is attacking them, is only giving the definitions of an "ism" etc. they might consider that maybe the shortcoming is not in the other people, but they are actually doing/saying what has been pointed out. And thankfully having had light shown on the matter, attempt to do better.)

When it comes to regeneration, it is something done by God in us, that turns us towards him in trust, instead of our natural state of being turned away from him. He destroys the enmity that resides in our hearts. Sometimes all at once. Sometimes through a process over time---preparing the soil for the seed. But always in the best and perfect way, for his purposes and suited perfectly to the individual.

What is certain is that also at the right and perfect time, the gospel is heard and believed. And if it is believed, by the work and grace of God in us, there is no possibility of it merely being offered and a choice by us to reject the offer being made. The believing sets the person firmly, irrevocably in Christ as Christ's own. But that is because the bad soil of man's natural heart in Adam, has been made ready, by God, no matter if it is heard and believed in an instant upon hearing it or later while he takes the person through some things---such wrestling match for example as the one you described in your case. Faith is already there. It simply may not yet have been attached specifically to the person and work of Christ, for whatever reason, and that is hidden in God. The confession in our hearts to his person and work is the point where one is actually placed in him and justified. Now, this last may meet with disagreement from others who are like minded in Reformed theology, and that disagreement may be very well warranted. It is just my thinking on the matter and not something even I consider as set in stone.

 

[makesends]

I gave my testimony. Week after week I was reaching out trying to get saved. Begging God to not condemn me, I know I was a sinner. Sin Sin Sin I was like the tax collector.

Then one sunday morning I walked up to the pastor during the call. and a deacon took me back to the baptismal dressing room. and walked me through the gospel stop by step so it made sense. And this time, I got on my knees and just like the tax collector. Called out for Gods mercy.

I walked out of that room a changed man

Again, I walked out a changed man

No its Gods reach that made my salvation mine I just recieved it

again I go back to this verse..

He came to his own, but his own received him not (the lost)
But as many as have received him, to THEM he gave the power to becomes sons of God. even to those who believe..

The power is Christ. But we have to receive that power. again (i know it sounds like a broken record) he does not force you to take it

So, your experience of it is the only way to see it —the only way of things...

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

So, your experience of it is the only way to see it —the only way of things...

No.

What does this even mean?

You asked if I reached for the life preserver..

I gave my testimony, What does that tell you?

 

[makesends]

No.

What does this even mean?

You asked if I reached for the life preserver..

I gave my testimony, What does that tell you?

When you base what you believe —base your doctrine and your use of scripture— on your assessment of your subjective experience, you have a poor basis for doctrine.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

When you base what you believe —base your doctrine and your use of scripture— on your assessment of your subjective experience, you have a poor basis for doctrine.

View attachment 1090

That’s exactly what your doing my friend

I am not the one using doctrine to base my thinking you are

All the meanwhile saying I am using doctrinal thinking to form my beliefs

Synergism is your belief of what I am. Your doctrine. It’s not mine.

As I showed in John 1:12. I can not will myself to heaven. But when your stuck in a doctrinal thinking it does not matter what others say you will follow your doctrine not what they said

My recommendation since I came in here is set aside isms. Listen to the person

Sadly it appears that is too difficult for some. Which is sad

 

[makesends]

makesends said:
When you base what you believe —base your doctrine and your use of scripture— on your assessment of your subjective experience, you have a poor basis for doctrine.

That’s exactly what your doing my friend

I am not the one using doctrine to base my thinking you are

I didn't say anything about using doctrine to base your thinking on.

All the meanwhile saying I am using doctrinal thinking to form my beliefs

The question is not what you or I believe. It is what the Bible says. The Bible shows intense reactions on the part of the [newly] born again. It does not show becoming born again is a result of what a person decides to do, reach for or receive. Yes, what my doctrine calls synergism describes what your doctrine teaches; it is not a matter of whether its your doctrine or not that it be called synergism by me.

Synergism is your belief of what I am. Your doctrine. It’s not mine.

Obviously. So what?

As I showed in John 1:12. I can not will myself to heaven. But when your stuck in a doctrinal thinking it does not matter what others say you will follow your doctrine not what they said

That describes anybody who is stuck in doctrinal belief. Do you suppose yourself to be free of that? Truth is, though, the doctrinal belief isn't really the problem. The problem is the worldview that produces the doctrine.

My recommendation since I came in here is set aside isms. Listen to the person

Sadly it appears that is too difficult for some. Which is sad

Sad indeed.

 

[prism]

Can A Person Be a Monergist and a Synergist At the Same Time? Can One Be Neither?​

No/no

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

makesends said:
When you base what you believe —base your doctrine and your use of scripture— on your assessment of your subjective experience, you have a poor basis for doctrine.

I didn't say anything about using doctrine to base your thinking on.

The question is not what you or I believe. It is what the Bible says. The Bible shows intense reactions on the part of the [newly] born again. It does not show becoming born again is a result of what a person decides to do, reach for or receive. Yes, what my doctrine calls synergism describes what your doctrine teaches; it is not a matter of whether its your doctrine or not that it be called synergism by me.

I can tell you now. Synergism is not in the bible. the way you have defined it.

Obviously. So what?

That describes anybody who is stuck in doctrinal belief. Do you suppose yourself to be free of that? Truth is, though, the doctrinal belief isn't really the problem. The problem is the worldview that produces the doctrine.

Sad indeed.

Its always the worldview.

it seems as I have been here for awhile.

It is the calvin view. or the world view

What makes you think the calvin view is right.

We have been here done this. I base what I believe on the word. God is my witne4ss. i will have to answer to God. Not man..

ISMS are of men..

 

[makesends]

I can tell you now. Synergism is not in the bible. the way you have defined it.

Its always the worldview.

it seems as I have been here for awhile.

It is the calvin view. or the world view

What makes you think the calvin view is right.

We have been here done this. I base what I believe on the word. God is my witne4ss. i will have to answer to God. Not man..

ISMS are of men..

I don't care about "the Calvin view". I am talking about the difference between synergism and monergism, as that is the subject of the thread, and attempting to demonstrate why I call myself a monergist. Salvation is entirely of grace.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I don't care about "the Calvin view". I am talking about the difference between synergism and monergism, as that is the subject of the thread, and attempting to demonstrate why I call myself a monergist. Salvation is entirely of grace.

I agree, Salvation is entirely of grace.

So that would make me a monergism. Bust sadly.. Your view of synergism would refute that

So. again, Your going by your doctrine. Not reality

 

[makesends]

I agree, Salvation is entirely of grace.

So that would make me a monergism. Bust sadly.. Your view of synergism would refute that

So. again, Your going by your doctrine. Not reality

No, it would not make you a monergist. Again, monergism —a somewhat simplistic definition will suffice here— is that God alone is the agent of Salvation. You do not hold to that, although you would say that. You hold to faith, or more specifically, belief in the Gospel, being the result of being convinced by God of his trustworthiness, and thus reaching out to him to accept ("receive", you say) his offer of salvation. Thus, the fact of salvation hinges on your decision, in your theology. Yes, sadly for sure, you don't believe God is the sole agent of Salvation. Like all synergists, you believe God has done his part, but that to receive it is your part. And, monstrously, you claim the ability of the lost to somehow do that in spite of what the Bible calls slavery to sin.

Your words above claim to believe Salvation is entirely of Grace, but you do not believe Salvation is entirely of Grace, by the rest of your words.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

No, it would not make you a monergist. Again, monergism —a somewhat simplistic definition will suffice here— is that God alone is the agent of Salvation.

Which is what I believe no matter what you and your reformed brothers say

You do not hold to that, although you would say that. You hold to faith, or more specifically, belief in the Gospel, being the result of being convinced by God of his trustworthiness, and thus reaching out to him to accept ("receive", you say) his offer of salvation. Thus, the fact of salvation hinges on your decision, in your theology. Yes, sadly for sure, you don't believe God is the sole agent of Salvation. Like all synergists, you believe God has done his part, but that to receive it is your part. And, monstrously, you claim the ability of the lost to somehow do that in spite of what the Bible calls slavery to sin.

Your words above claim to believe Salvation is entirely of Grace, but you do not believe Salvation is entirely of Grace, by the rest of your words.

For by grace we have been saved through faith

I believe what god says I was saved by grace. Not faith.

 

[makesends]

makesends said:
No, it would not make you a monergist. Again, monergism —a somewhat simplistic definition will suffice here— is that God alone is the agent of Salvation

Which is what I believe no matter what you and your reformed brothers say

Do you not believe that one must, by act of will, receive it, for it to be effective? That is not monergism.

makesends said:
You do not hold to that, although you would say that. You hold to faith, or more specifically, belief in the Gospel, being the result of being convinced by God of his trustworthiness, and thus reaching out to him to accept ("receive", you say) his offer of salvation. Thus, the fact of salvation hinges on your decision, in your theology. Yes, sadly for sure, you don't believe God is the sole agent of Salvation. Like all synergists, you believe God has done his part, but that to receive it is your part. And, monstrously, you claim the ability of the lost to somehow do that in spite of what the Bible calls slavery to sin.

Your words above claim to believe Salvation is entirely of Grace, but you do not believe Salvation is entirely of Grace, by the rest of your words.

For by grace we have been saved through faith

I believe what god says I was saved by grace. Not faith.

Yes, but you by mere fiat, redefine faith to be effective by the will of the person. That is not entirely by Grace. You continue to insist on determining your own salvation.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

makesends said:
No, it would not make you a monergist. Again, monergism —a somewhat simplistic definition will suffice here— is that God alone is the agent of Salvation

Do you not believe that one must, by act of will, receive it, for it to be effective? That is not monergism.

That’s your view and your doctrine

makesends said:
You do not hold to that, although you would say that. You hold to faith, or more specifically, belief in the Gospel, being the result of being convinced by God of his trustworthiness, and thus reaching out to him to accept ("receive", you say) his offer of salvation. Thus, the fact of salvation hinges on your decision, in your theology. Yes, sadly for sure, you don't believe God is the sole agent of Salvation. Like all synergists, you believe God has done his part, but that to receive it is your part. And, monstrously, you claim the ability of the lost to somehow do that in spite of what the Bible calls slavery to sin.

Your words above claim to believe Salvation is entirely of Grace, but you do not believe Salvation is entirely of Grace, by the rest of your words.

Yes, but you by mere fiat, redefine faith to be effective by the will of the person. That is not entirely by Grace. You continue to insist on determining your own salvation.

Let cut to the chase you ultimately believe I am not saved (you can’t because a synergist by defenition can not be saved there is but one gospel any other gospel is to be accursed

So how can I get saved. Or is it to late for me?

 

[makesends]

That’s your view and your doctrine

Let cut to the chase you ultimately believe I am not saved (you can’t because a synergist by defenition can not be saved there is but one gospel any other gospel is to be accursed

So how can I get saved. Or is it to late for me?

Wrong again. I'm relatively confident that you are saved, in spite of your arrangements of words and their implications.

I'm guessing at this point in history —at least in the USA— there are probably more saved synergists than there are saved monergists. It is GOD who saves, and not our ability to understand, (nor our sincerity), that saves. It is neither synergism nor monergism that saves, but only God.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Wrong again. I'm relatively confident that you are saved, in spite of your arrangements of words and their implications.

How can I be saved if I am saved by my own works?

See my problem with the thinking of some?

You saved yourself by your will.

But your still saved??

I'm guessing at this point in history —at least in the USA— there are probably more saved synergists than there are saved monergists. It is GOD who saves, and not our ability to understand, (nor our sincerity), that saves. It is neither synergism nor monergism that saves, but only God.

How can a synergist (true) be saved?

How can a monergist (true) not be saved?