Born again?

[Carbon]

John 3:5 is not baptism by water.

Born of Water in John 3 below:

John 3:1-7. Lets look at the context of Jesus interaction with Nicodemus. All human beings have experienced natural birth on earth, if they expect to go to heaven, they must experience a supernatural spiritual birth from above. Nicodemus was a well educated religious leader who did not understand what the Saviour was talking about. Jesus was speaking about a spiritual birth, but Nicodemus thought of a physical birth. The situation is no different today When you talk with people about being born again, they often begin to discuss their family's religious heritage, their church membership, religious ceremonies like baptism etc....Jesus being a patient teacher picked up on Nicodemus' words and further explained the new birth. To be "born of water" is to be born physically ("enter a second time into his mother's womb") but to be born again means to be born of the Spirit. Just as there are two parents for physical birth, so there are two for spiritual birth: the Spirit of God (John 3:5) and the Word of God (James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:23-25). The Spirit of God takes the Word of God and, when the sinner believes, imparts the life of God. Jesus was not teaching that the new birth comes through water baptism. In the NT baptism is connected with death, not birth and no amount of physical water can cause a spiritual change in a person. The emphasis in John 3:14-21 is on believing, because salvation comes through faith. John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Nice post! I agree with everything but one thing. I believe the new birth comes before faith. You knew that already though.

 

[Deleted member 5]

Nice post! I agree with everything but one thing. I believe the new birth comes before faith. You knew that already though.

Yes, being made alive in Him happened before "by grace you are saved" and all the other things in Ephesians 2:5ff. It all starts with "But God..." showing it is all of Him in Ephesians 2:4.

 

[civic]

Yes, being made alive in Him happened before "by grace you are saved" and all the other things in Ephesians 2:5ff. It all starts with "But God..." showing it is all of Him in Ephesians 2:4.

Ok I'll put on my reformed hat and post about John 3.

John 3:3-10
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?


So lets go through this point by point.

1- to enter the kingdom of God a person must be born again( a 2nd time)
2- flesh gives birth to flesh ( 1st birth )
3- the Spirit gives birth to spirit( 2nd birth )
4- the wind(spirit) blows wherever IT pleases
5- we hear the sound of the wind but do not know where it is coming from or going to
6- the same with the Spirit( we see its effects but not its coming or going)
7- the spirit is the same as the wind- it does as it pleases and we see its effects in both the natural(wind) and supernatural ( spirit)
8- nowhere in this passage does it say that a man chooses to be born again
9- the new birth is compared to the physical birth just as the wind is compared to the spirits work
10- in both cases of birth God is the Active One and the one who is birthed is passive in the process.

conclusion: just as flesh gives birth to flesh( 1st birth as a person) so to does the Spirit give birth to the spirit(the new birth- born again)

There can be no other reading into the text but what has been outlined in the 10 points. Those 10 points are directly from the text.

Now The PARALLELS and CONTRASTS Jesus makes in the passage are the following 10 by reading through and observing the passage :

1- the 2 births
2- the wind and the spirit
3- flesh and the spirit
4- water and spirit
5- earthly and heavenly things
6- effects of both the wind and spirit
7- the seen with the unseen
8- the physical with the supernatural
9- knowing and not knowing, understanding and not understanding
10- entering the kingdom and not entering the kingdom

Just as a man is passive in his physical birth so to is that same man when it comes to his spiritual birth. See below for the Truth in the birth process its all Gods doing, not mans.

John 1:13
children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

John 3:4
"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Can he enter his mother's womb a second time to be born?"

John 3:6
Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit.

Titus 3:5
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

A dead person has no stimulus with his body the same as one spiritually dead in their sins has no stimulus to life is the spirit. Both conditions of death are dead to stimuli. There is inability of the dead to react to stimuli/stimulus. A physically dead man cannot respond and neither can a spiritually dead man respond to stimuli from the spirit since they are dead spiritually.

Ephesians 2:1
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!

Colossians 2:13
When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses

John 5:21
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

Hence the necessity of a resurrection of the dead - life given by God in both cases. Both the physical and spiritual dead need new life and that life can only come from God.

Just as Lazarus could not come out of that grave until Jesus supernaturally gave him life and called him out of that grave neither can those dead in sin respond until they are given life (regeneration) to respond to Gods call.

physical death- cannot respond to stimuli such as seeing and hearing

spiritual death- cannot respond to stimuli such as seeing and hearing.

Lazarus who was physically dead could not see or hear until Jesus gave him life to respond to his call from the grave.

It’s really not that complicated. Dead is dead. Resurrection is resurrection, Regeneration is regeneration, born of the Spirit is born of the spirit.

It’s all Gods control over life and death.

hope this helps !!!

 

[ReverendRV]

Ok I'll put on my reformed hat and post about John 3.

John 3:3-10
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?


So lets go through this point by point.

1- to enter the kingdom of God a person must be born again( a 2nd time)
2- flesh gives birth to flesh ( 1st birth )
3- the Spirit gives birth to spirit( 2nd birth )
4- the wind(spirit) blows wherever IT pleases
5- we hear the sound of the wind but do not know where it is coming from or going to
6- the same with the Spirit( we see its effects but not its coming or going)
7- the spirit is the same as the wind- it does as it pleases and we see its effects in both the natural(wind) and supernatural ( spirit)
8- nowhere in this passage does it say that a man chooses to be born again
9- the new birth is compared to the physical birth just as the wind is compared to the spirits work
10- in both cases of birth God is the Active One and the one who is birthed is passive in the process.

conclusion: just as flesh gives birth to flesh( 1st birth as a person) so to does the Spirit give birth to the spirit(the new birth- born again)

There can be no other reading into the text but what has been outlined in the 10 points. Those 10 points are directly from the text.

Now The PARALLELS and CONTRASTS Jesus makes in the passage are the following 10 by reading through and observing the passage :

1- the 2 births
2- the wind and the spirit
3- flesh and the spirit
4- water and spirit
5- earthly and heavenly things
6- effects of both the wind and spirit
7- the seen with the unseen
8- the physical with the supernatural
9- knowing and not knowing, understanding and not understanding
10- entering the kingdom and not entering the kingdom

Just as a man is passive in his physical birth so to is that same man when it comes to his spiritual birth. See below for the Truth in the birth process its all Gods doing, not mans.

John 1:13
children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

John 3:4
"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Can he enter his mother's womb a second time to be born?"

John 3:6
Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit.

Titus 3:5
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

A dead person has no stimulus with his body the same as one spiritually dead in their sins has no stimulus to life is the spirit. Both conditions of death are dead to stimuli. There is inability of the dead to react to stimuli/stimulus. A physically dead man cannot respond and neither can a spiritually dead man respond to stimuli from the spirit since they are dead spiritually.

Ephesians 2:1
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved!

Colossians 2:13
When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses


John 5:21
For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

Hence the necessity of a resurrection of the dead - life given by God in both cases. Both the physical and spiritual dead need new life and that life can only come from God.

Just as Lazarus could not come out of that grave until Jesus supernaturally gave him life and called him out of that grave neither can those dead in sin respond until they are given life (regeneration) to respond to Gods call.

physical death- cannot respond to stimuli such as seeing and hearing

spiritual death- cannot respond to stimuli such as seeing and hearing.

Lazarus who was physically dead could not see or hear until Jesus gave him life to respond to his call from the grave.

It’s really not that complicated. Dead is dead. Resurrection is resurrection, Regeneration is regeneration, born of the Spirit is born of the spirit.

It’s all Gods control over life and death.

hope this helps !!!

Leave the Hat on...

 

[civic]

Leave the Hat on...

I will never forget where I came from my brother- those are my roots.

And when I was saved I immediately went to my mother in laws church in 1980 which was Dutch Reformed and the pastor and I became great friends and he discipled me for 2 years. I was not an Arminian when I was saved but a Calvinist fully immersed in the doctrines of grace.

 

[donadams]

Wow. Good Catholic answer.

I admit it ain’t pretty but it’s handy! Lol!

 

[donadams]

John 3:5 is not baptism by water.

Born of Water in John 3 below:

John 3:1-7. Lets look at the context of Jesus interaction with Nicodemus. All human beings have experienced natural birth on earth, if they expect to go to heaven, they must experience a supernatural spiritual birth from above. Nicodemus was a well educated religious leader who did not understand what the Saviour was talking about. Jesus was speaking about a spiritual birth, but Nicodemus thought of a physical birth. The situation is no different today When you talk with people about being born again, they often begin to discuss their family's religious heritage, their church membership, religious ceremonies like baptism etc....Jesus being a patient teacher picked up on Nicodemus' words and further explained the new birth. To be "born of water" is to be born physically ("enter a second time into his mother's womb") but to be born again means to be born of the Spirit. Just as there are two parents for physical birth, so there are two for spiritual birth: the Spirit of God (John 3:5) and the Word of God (James 1:18; 1 Peter 1:23-25). The Spirit of God takes the Word of God and, when the sinner believes, imparts the life of God. Jesus was not teaching that the new birth comes through water baptism. In the NT baptism is connected with death, not birth and no amount of physical water can cause a spiritual change in a person. The emphasis in John 3:14-21 is on believing, because salvation comes through faith. John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Jn 3:5 really says born of water and born again of the spirit and not born again BY water AND the spirit?

The real context of John 1,2,3, & 4 is baptism

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

(Key verse! Actions speak louder than words: verse 22)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!


baptismal regeneration!
A new creation in Christ! 2 cor 5:17
Jn 1 JTB prepared the way by baptism!
Jn 2 the waters of purification are OT prefigurement of baptism!
Jn 3:5 born again means baptism
Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river! Not to preach “accept Christ as personal lord and savior”
But to BAPTIZE!!!

 

[donadams]

Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

Only James 2:24 a man is justified by works and not by “faith alone”

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!




“Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

“Faith alone” unbiblical!

 

[donadams]

Read John 3:3, especially 1-15.

Baptismal regeneration ok

Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!





Faith and baptism:

16:16 he that believes and is baptized shall be saved
Matt 28:19 faith and baptism
Acts 2:38-39 repent and be baptized (promise of ez 36:25)
Acts 8:36-38 faith and baptism
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism
1 pet 3:21 baptism saves us

 

[ReverendRV]

I admit it ain’t pretty but it’s handy! Lol!

Good morning

Elsewhere on other Forums, I'm used to having my Posts skipped; in order for a Poster to engage someone else they can Argue with. It's okay though; my Post to you that you were waiting for, was just a Statement of Evangelicalism...

It can be debated, but it's okay. Mainly, I wanted to point out that Good Points are easily skipped...

 

[donadams]

It isn't by Baptism and transubstantiation. The new life isn't infused in us to where we need to keep getting filled at Mass. Our nature is changed through regeneration, we are given a new heart of flesh and a new nature.

You forgot “call no man father”
Scripture opposes your understanding of all these things

You only need grace once, Jn 1:16-17
Jn 10:10 life of grace
More abundantly
Every time an apostle greets the church He says: “grace be unto you” why

Example gal 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

Heb 4:16 Mary’s throne of Grace is a storehouse of the merits of Christ and divine grace

Ask and you shall receive

We can work on the others later
These are large subjects

 

[Deleted member 5]

You forgot “call no man father”
Scripture opposes your understanding of all these things

You only need grace once, Jn 1:16-17

Utter nonsense. James 4:6; Hebrews 4:16 refute you.

 

[donadams]

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Jn 3:5–8.

Verse 8: the wind (Holy Spirit) where 'it' wants. It mentions nothing about water.
Verse 5: Born of water is being born human (flesh).
Verse 5: Born of the Spirit is the conversion.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh [such as water], but the answer of a good conscience toward God [conscience, which is Spirit-birth],) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 1 Pe 3:21.

Now Jn 3:5 says: born of water born again of the spirit?
Not “born again” BY water And the Spirit!

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

(Key verse! Actions speak louder than words: verse 22)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!


baptismal regeneration!
A new creation in Christ! 2 cor 5:17
Jn 1 JTB prepared the way by baptism!
Jn 2 the waters of purification are OT prefigurement of baptism!
Jn 3:5 born again means baptism
Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river! Not to preach “accept Christ as personal lord and savior”
But to BAPTIZE!!!
Thanks

 

[Eleanor]

I admit it ain’t pretty but it’s handy! Lol!

As well as incorrect, see post #29.

 

[Iconoclast]

SOME ROMAN CATHOLIC HERESIES AND INVENTIONSand the dates of their adoption over a period of 1,650 years
1. Prayers for the dead: began about A.D. 300.
2. Making the sign of the cross: A.D. 300.
3. Wax candles: about A.D. 320.
4. Veneration of angels and dead saints, and use of images: A.D. 375.
5. The Mass, as a daily celebration: A.D. 394.
6. Beginning of the exaltation of Mary, the term “Mother of God” first applied to her bythe Council of Ephesus: A.D. 431.
7. Priests began to dress differently from laymen: A.D. 500.
8. Extreme Unction: A.D. 526.
9. The doctrine of Purgatory, established by Gregory I: A.D. 593.
10. Latin language, used in prayer and worship, imposed by Gregory I: A.D. 600.
11. Prayers directed to Mary, dead saints, and angels: about A.D. 600.
12. Title of pope, or universal bishop, given to Boniface III by emperor Phocas: A.D. 607.
13. Kissing the pope’s foot, began with Pope Constantine: A.D. 709.
14. Temporal power of the popes, conferred by Pepin, king of the Franks: A.D. 750.
15. Worship of the cross, images, and relics: authorized in A.D. 786.
16. Holy water, mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by a priest: A.D. 850.
17. Worship of St. Joseph: A.D. 890.
18. College of Cardinals established: A.D. 927.
19. Baptism of bells, instituted by pope John XIII: A.D. 965
.20. Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope John XV: A.D. 995.
21. Fasting on Fridays and during Lent: A.D. 998.
22. The Mass, developed gradually as a sacrifice, attendance made obligatory in the 11thcentury.
23. Celibacy of the priesthood, decreed by pope Gregory VII (Hildebrand): A.D. 1079.
24. The Rosary, mechanical praying with beads, invented by Peter the Hermit: A.D. 1090.
25. The Inquisition, instituted by the Council of Verona: A.D. 1184.
26. Sale of Indulgences: A.D. 1190
.27. Transubstantiation, proclaimed by Pope Innocent III: A.D. 1215.
28. Auricular Confession of sins to a priest instead of to God, instituted by Pope InnocentIII, in Lateran Council: A.D. 1215.
29. Adoration of the wafer (Host), decreed by Pope Honorius III: A.D. 1220.
30. Bible forbidden to laymen, placed on the Index of Forbidden Books by the Council ofToulouse: A.D. 1229.
31. The Scapular, invented by Simon Stock, an English monk: A.D. 1251.
32. Cup forbidden to the people at communion by Council of Constance: A.D. 1414.
33. Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma by the Council of Florence: A.D. 1439.
34. The doctrine of Seven Sacraments affirmed: A.D. 1439
35. The Ave Maria (part of the last half was completed 50 years later and approved byPope Sixtus V at the end of the 16thcentury): A.D. 1508.
36. Jesuit order founded by Loyola: A.D. 1534.
37. Tradition declared of equal authority with the Bible by the Council of Trent: A.D.1545.
38. Apocryphal books added to the Bible by the Council of Trent: A.D. 1546.
39. Creed of pope Pius IV imposed as the official creed: A.D. 1560
.40. Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary, proclaimed by Pope Pius IX: A.D. 1854.
41. Syllabus of Errors, proclaimed by Pope Pius IX and ratified by the Vatican Council;condemned freedom of religion, conscience, speech, press, and scientific discoverieswhich are disapproved by the Roman Church; asserted the pope’s temporal authority overall civil rulers: A.D. 1864.
42. Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals, proclaimed by the VaticanCouncil: A.D. 1870
.43. Public Schools condemned by Pope Pius XI: A.D. 1930.
44. Assumption of the Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death),proclaimed by Pope Pius XII: A.D. 1950.
45. Mary proclaimed Mother of the Church by Pope Paul VI: A.D. 1965.
Add to these many others: monks, nuns, monasteries, convents, forty days Lent, holy week, Palm Sunday, Ash Wednesday, All Saints day, Candlemas day, fish day, meat days, incense, holy oil, holy palms, Christopher medals, charms, novenas, and still others.
There you have it—the melancholy evidence of Rome’s steadily increasing departure from the simplicity of the Gospel, a departure so radical and far-reaching at the present time that it has produced a drastically anti-evangelical church. It is clear beyond possibility of doubt that the Roman Catholic religion as now practiced is the outgrowth of centuries of error.
https://ia600906.us.archive.org/24/...oman Catholicism, Loraine Boettner (1962).pdf

 

[jeremiah1five]

Now Jn 3:5 says: born of water born again of the spirit?
Not “born again” BY water And the Spirit!

Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

(Key verse! Actions speak louder than words: verse 22)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!


baptismal regeneration!
A new creation in Christ! 2 cor 5:17
Jn 1 JTB prepared the way by baptism!
Jn 2 the waters of purification are OT prefigurement of baptism!
Jn 3:5 born again means baptism
Jn 3:22 they immediately went to the river! Not to preach “accept Christ as personal lord and savior”
But to BAPTIZE!!!
Thanks

But it is baptismal regeneration by the Holy Spirit.
Not water. Water only cleans the filth of the flesh/skin as Peter said:

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 1 Pe 3:21.

There is no such thing as water baptismal regeneration regenerating a person to salvation.

Regeneration of a person to salvation is the Ministry of the third Person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit.

 

[civic]

But it is baptismal regeneration by the Holy Spirit.
Not water. Water only cleans the filth of the flesh/skin as Peter said:

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 1 Pe 3:21.

There is no such thing as water baptismal regeneration regenerating a person to salvation.

Regeneration of a person to salvation is the Ministry of the third Person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit.

Yes the only baptism that saves is by the Spirit which is the new birth, being born again

 

[Manfred]

The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!

One is justified by faith. Not faith in baptism, not faith in being submerged, but faith in the completed work of Christ.

People are always trying to find a way to add their own deeds to salvation.
If you don't DO something, then God remains powerless.

It is just another way to make man sovereign over God.

Let me put it another way. If we are obedient to the leading of the Spirit, then we do what God wills and He is glorified. When we are obedient to our will and understanding then our will and understanding is glorified.

So let me ask you. Were you baptized because of obedience to the leading of the Holy Spirit or because of the leading of your own understanding and will.

If through the leading of the Holy Spirit, were you already able to understand Spiritual truths or not!

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

If water baptism was the same as regeneration by the Holy Spirit, it would count for a work and not by faith. Hence water baptism is not regeneration.

 

[donadams]

One is justified by faith. Not faith in baptism, not faith in being submerged, but faith in the completed work of Christ.

People are always trying to find a way to add their own deeds to salvation.
If you don't DO something, then God remains powerless.

It is just another way to make man sovereign over God.

Let me put it another way. If we are obedient to the leading of the Spirit, then we do what God wills and He is glorified. When we are obedient to our will and understanding then our will and understanding is glorified.

So let me ask you. Were you baptized because of obedience to the leading of the Holy Spirit or because of the leading of your own understanding and will.

If through the leading of the Holy Spirit, were you already able to understand Spiritual truths or not!

I did not baptize myself!

I cannot enter on my own by “faith alone” Jn 3:5 it must be ministered to me. 2 pet 1:11

Nothing about grace?


God desired to give us a physical sign to show outwardly the inward action of grace!

A sacrament is an outward efficacious sign instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus Christ himself is the sacrament, as he gave his life to save mankind. His humanity is the outward sign or the instrument of his Divinity. It is through his humanity that the life of the Trinity comes to us as grace through the sacraments. It is Jesus Christ alone who mediates the sacraments to allow grace to flow to mankind.

Christ sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost to inspire his Apostles and his Church to shepherd his flock after his Ascension into heaven. "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 17:18, 20:21). Jesus is the Head of his Body the Church (Colossians 1:18). The Church itself is a sacrament instituted by Christ to give grace. Jesus gave us his Body the Church to continue the works he performed during his earthly life. Grace given to us through the sacraments will help us lead a good life in this world and help save us for the Kingdom of Heaven.

The sacraments were instituted by Christ! The Church celebrates in her liturgy the Paschal mystery of Christ, his Passion, Sacrifice on the Cross, Resurrection, and Glorious Ascension. The Greek word μυστήριον or mystery in the Greek New Testament is translated into sacramentum in the Latin Vulgate Bible, from which we derive our English word sacrament (examples: Ephesians 1:9, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:27). The saving effects of Christ's Redemption on the Cross are communicated through the sacraments,

Thanks