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Attending Church

Too many churches are stuck in teaching baby Christian level.
??????

We're gonna trash a bunch of congregations before answering the question?
Hebrews 10:25 would apply very well for the baby Christian.
But not the mature Christian?
But where does one go to grow when they want to mature beyond the baby level?
Apparently not to a congregation where that verse is taught because it very well applies for the baby Christian.
If the teaching in a church can not do that? You are to attend anyway? There is a time to build each other up.
And then a time tear down ""too many churches" because it applies for the baby Christian.
And... Then comes a time to grow up. Where do we go?
Not to a congregation teaching Hebrews 10:25, apparently.
To God's provision.... wherever it is to be revealed.
God uses the Church!
When the Bible was written good Bible teachers were the norm and in a constant state of maturing spiritually. Over time...
Red herring.




Go back and re-read your powt with the question asked in the op in mind. It's a yes-or-no question. Re-read your post again and look how hostile and critical it is. Consider how it reads to the reader.
Do you believe a Christian must attend church or is it okay to watch it live at home?

Too many churches are stuck in teaching baby Christian level.
Hmmm... you don't say.
 
If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying because you can hear better, more gifted teachers expounding the Word online, there is no point assembling together in church.

Church is not just about hearing the word of God preached, if it was, yes there are many other ways we can do that as today we have free access to an amazing range of very gifted preachers. But as I said above in post #7, we are the body of Christ. It is hard to be part of the body when you don't meet with the rest of the members. Remember Hebrews 10:24-25 says nothing about hearing God's Word expounded (which of course is still an important part of the church gathering). Rather it says:

And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. Hebrews 10:24-25

It is hard to stir up each other to love and good works if we are not in fellowship with others.
Not online. Not enough to grow with.

I speak of 'recorded' lessons as were given in Bible classes in a church. Captured on thumb drive or CD. That is what I have found.
They are not for the baby Christians. They are for those sensing the need for more understanding than what was once a good
for their younger days, and no longer able to satisfy.

After an intensive first few years of constant daily attendance I found myself having grown... Then I gave up on finding and hearing teachings that would challenge me to grow..

Most pastors today come out of seminary mills. Or, are self taught. Conventional and traditional teachings that cannot find solutions for problems that were not needed in the past.

Besides... over time Satan and the flesh have infiltrated too many places that were once the beacons of hope.

God in His wisdom will open doors after others have been shut.
 
Not online. Not enough to grow with.

I speak of 'recorded' lessons as were given in Bible classes in a church. Captured on thumb drive or CD. That is what I have found.
They are not for the baby Christians. They are for those sensing the need for more understanding than what was once a good
for their younger days, and no longer able to satisfy.

After an intensive first few years of constant daily attendance I found myself having grown... Then I gave up on finding and hearing teachings that would challenge me to grow..

Most pastors today come out of seminary mills. Or, are self taught. Conventional and traditional teachings that cannot find solutions for problems that were not needed in the past.

Besides... over time Satan and the flesh have infiltrated too many places that were once the beacons of hope.

God in His wisdom will open doors after others have been shut.
I understand that the teaching one receives at the church gathering may not be as deep as we might like. That is why we do our own study. But this should be supplement to, and not instead of, the church gathering. We have been called into a family - God's family. He has blessed us with brothers and sisters in the faith. He has given us gifts to serve our family. How can we do that if we don't meet with them?
 
I understand that the teaching one receives at the church gathering may not be as deep as we might like. That is why we do our own study. But this should be supplement to, and not instead of, the church gathering. We have been called into a family - God's family. He has blessed us with brothers and sisters in the faith. He has given us gifts to serve our family. How can we do that if we don't meet with them?
Amen!
 
What!?! You think that "stirring up one another in love and good works and encouraging one another" is for baby Christians?
Baby Christians who are yet ignorant of the knowledge for maturity need a constant building up in the Word.
Its building up in the Word that encourages, not well wishing with human intention!


That is what I was saying.

We all need building up and to be encouraged by a pulpit's teaching! We must be built up by sound doctrine before we can have what is needed to build up and encourage others.

Its when so many poorly equipped pulpit flops and dies in growing, that attending that church would be like a couple being commanded to endure a marriage while they hate each other. Legalism tells them they should not split.

"Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife." Proverbs 25:24
 
I understand that the teaching one receives at the church gathering may not be as deep as we might like. That is why we do our own study.

Without first having enough years of good sound doctrinal teaching that is stored in one's spirit to think with?
Teaching oneself could be spiritual suicide... Too much crash and burn.

For God says..

“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts."

His thoughts are not our own. So, you can teach yourself? How?

That is why its a must to find one of the few genuinely anointed pastors if we are to grow as God is pleased with.
God hates legalism , while legalistic believers think God loves their steadfastness.

Its only after finding a genuinely sound teacher, and one learns from him. That one can eventually grow to become
equipped to study for himself.

Just the same.. If that pastor is a man of integrity? If he has a laid down life? One of constant competent study with the gift God gave him?
You will not outgrow him...

There will be a lifelong need for the truly "always growing" pastor...
Yet, even then. You will be made able by his teaching to do your own study and thinking productively.

grace and peace ..................
 
I agree with you. But I thought it was obvious what I was talking about by the way I framed my question.
Maybe not?

Sorry.
I'm talking about the church, the assembling together of believers.
24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. Heb 10.
Thank you for your explanation. However, many people still think of the public meeting for religious activity is THE CHURCH. Not realizing that it is only ONE format.

My concern is that people are trying to fix, change, make the publc meeting as to how they believe it should run, instead of `going and making disciples. ` I`ve been there, done that, (ie try to fix, change etc the public meeting.)
 
Thank you for your explanation. However, many people still think of the public meeting for religious activity is THE CHURCH. Not realizing that it is only ONE format.

My concern is that people are trying to fix, change, make the publc meeting as to how they believe it should run, instead of `going and making disciples. ` I`ve been there, done that, (ie try to fix, change etc the public meeting.)
Well, the church should assemble together. Scripture warns us not to neglect it.
 
I agree with this.


However I disagree here. 'Church' (as in the meeting) is more than just a public meeting organised by man - it is about coming together to worship. And yes, 2 or 3 can do it together, but how much better when 20 or 30, or 50 or 100 or more meet together in worship. Does this not better reflect the reality from Revelation that we are looking forward to where a mulitude beyond counting worship Jesus together?

Don't get me wrong. I am not keen on the modern day 'megachurch' idea. But I do believe worshipping together in public as God's new creation was an important part of the New Testament church and so should be an important part of our experience today. We were saved to be a people of God, a royal priesthood, a holy nation - this involves togetherness. It is our role as God's new covenant people to reflect God into the world and to reflect the praises of creation back to God. Meeting together in public worship is one means of doing that. We gather to sing praises to God, pray together and hear God's Word read and explained. Doing this corporately is a vital part of being the Body of Christ, giving us an opportunity to serve, and be served by, each other. A local church doesn't always get this right but when it does it reflects God's love and grace into a world in darkness and it is beautiful.

Just my thoughts.
Hi Sereni,

I agree that meeting with many other believers, singing, hearing a good message, maybe words of encouragement, testimonies, etc is wonderful. I have so appreciated all my days in such meetings. I especially enjoyed helping in the music section.

What I am trying to point out is that this format is not the only one for believers to gather. It however has made people feel back slidden, or ostracized it they don`t attend that format. Whereas fellowshipping and pray and bible study can be done in small informal groups too.

The organized meetings are usually run by one person and the authority is connected to the world`s system as buildings etc have to have codes of practice, health and safety regulations etc. That is why we are seeing many organizations including the LGB`s etc and same sex marriages. There is more to the public meetings now with government`s rules and regulations coming in.
 
Well, the church should assemble together. Scripture warns us not to neglect it.
It`s the `how` we assemble that is the question. For many centuries the lecture type of format has been the model with organizations ruling over the public meeting. And as I`ve just said to Sereni, the government`s rules and regulations are now requiring these organisation to bow to their inclusiveness of GLB etc and same sex marriages. And it wont stop there either.
 
It`s the `how` we assemble that is the question. For many centuries the lecture type of format has been the model with organizations ruling over the public meeting. And as I`ve just said to Sereni, the government`s rules and regulations are now requiring these organisation to bow to their inclusiveness of GLB etc and same sex marriages. And it wont stop there either.
Honestly, who cares what the non-Christians do with and in their buildings? That shouldn't effect us, or we shouldn't let it effect us.
 
One could say that this form fulfills a part of Hebrews
Amen. I agree we must not neglect to assemble together.
We are doing that HERE!
 
Honestly, who cares what the non-Christians do with and in their buildings? That shouldn't effect us, or we shouldn't let it effect us.
It is the `Christian organizations` I`m referring to. I have just finished reading a friend`s PM to me (from England) where she wrote what the Minister has recently said about `Pride month.` He was encouraging all his congregation to accept GLB etc (behaviour) as they now do same sex marriages in that `church?` It is certainly not a church but a man-made offense to the Head.
 
The New Emmanuael Times Summer 2023 the magazine for friends and members


Minister’s letter rev James Hamilton

One issue that has faced God’s people since the beginning of time has been this; should God’s people separate themselves from the world, or should we immerse ourselves in it.

At times God’s people have been called to separate themselves out from the world to maintain their purity, at others to go into the world for the world’ sake. Like so much else in the spiritual life, we must hold two different truths in dynamic tension, it is not either or, but both and, sometimes, depending.

For Christians to separate themselves out from the world is to risk becoming blindly judgemental. I suspect that we can all think of people who have behaved like this, and it may be that, if you come from a tradition like mine, you might recognise something of your younger self in this.

Looking back on the views of that younger, James, I see views characterised more by fear than by love; fear of getting it wrong, fear of displeasing God, fear of becoming compromised. Not bad things in themselves; sometimes healthy fear keeps us safe, but in excess it makes us risk averse.

On the 3rd of june the town centre held its first Pride march. One of the things I reflected on was that there is no point having made the decision we made as a church last year, which was to register Emmanuel to hold same sex weddings, if we don’t really promote that , or stand up and proclaim God’s love for everyone, regardless of their sexuality. I also reflected as I joined the march outside the town hall that the last time, I’d joined a march there was on International Holocaust Day in January.


One of the things that I remember about that event was learning about how the Nazis had treated gay men and lesbian women, whose treatment in concentration camps was as diabolical as that enacted on the Jews, and the thought that Christianity had been complicit in both, because over a thousand years and more, the church had demonised, among others, Jewish and LGBT people.

I had been a Christian for decades before I was really able to question what I had always been taught about the sinfulness of same sex relations, and I lament the hurt and the pain that was caused to the LBGT community as I worked through the issue. I suspect many of us might feel the same.

One of the causes of this was that I didn’t move in the circles where gay and lesbian existed.My ‘tribe’ didn’t believe that gay and lesbian Christians really could exist. I was poorer for not knowing such people, and I don’t think it was coincidence that it wasn’t until I became a student minister, and two things happened that I really began to wrestle meaningfully with the issue.

Firstly, when I became a student, 25% of my fellow student ministers were gay or Lesbian, and they were among the most spiritual people not the least. Secondly , I started worshipping at the New inclusive church in Bimingham, which met at Carr’s Lane. The inclusive church was everything that I think a church should be, passionate about a welcome that defaulted to being inclusive, passionate about diversity being an important part of unity; passionate about questioning old assumptions, passionate about living radically.

Most of all it was characterised by love rather than fear, because perfect love cast out fear. We have no need to be fearful wherever God sends us, because we have nothering to fear when God is with us, provided we keep our eyes uplifted to the cross Reflecting back on last week’s Redditch Pride, I’m struck by the fact that it was a wonderful experience, but also tjat ot was a ,opportunity. The march paraded past the Ecumenical Centre, we had a poster in the window sayingwe supported Gay Pride, but it would have been wonderful to have some of us outside, or to have had a stall on the Market Place, or been in the march showing solidarity and support of God and the power of repentance and forgiveness, I hope next year we will . based on a sermon I preached on the 11 June 2023


God bless
James
 
One could say that this form fulfills a part of Hebrews

We are doing that HERE!
Do you attend church on Sundays? Or do you watch it on tv or come on a forum instead?
 
Personally I don't go to church. I stopped going about 20 years ago and instead try to read the bible daily and gather with the saints before God's throne in prayer. I also listen/read to sermons to books and other resources from early 1900's & prior which I find more fundamental than contemporary teachings. It has brought me so much more growth than all the years I spent in churches prior.
Frankly, I doubt I was saved yet while attending Church all those years, once I came out and started communing directly with God, and direct from God's word, the besetting sins I struggled with for decades finally lost their grip and I am strong and centered in Christ.
 
Baby Christians who are yet ignorant of the knowledge for maturity need a constant building up in the Word.
Its building up in the Word that encourages, not well wishing with human intention!


That is what I was saying.
Yes, preaching of the Word is needed for building up a Christian to maturity. But you are in error if you think that is the only way. Christians build each other up in many and varied ways and this applies as much to the new Christian as the most mature. Encouraging each other isn't just well wishing. It is walking along side each other through our struggles and grief as well as our joys. It is praying together, worshipping together, working side by side to support each other and many, many other ways.

We all need building up and to be encouraged by a pulpit's teaching! We must be built up by sound doctrine before we can have what is needed to build up and encourage others.

Its when so many poorly equipped pulpit flops and dies in growing, that attending that church would be like a couple being commanded to endure a marriage while they hate each other. Legalism tells them they should not split.

"Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife." Proverbs 25:24
I understand the dangers of poor preaching. And I am well aware that I am extremely blessed to live within a few kilometres of several good Bible-believing churches. Many are not so fortunate.
 
Without first having enough years of good sound doctrinal teaching that is stored in one's spirit to think with?
Teaching oneself could be spiritual suicide... Too much crash and burn.
I don't disagree. When I was referring to study I meant what you were talking about - listening to good teaching, etc. My apologies for not being clear.
 
Do you attend church on Sundays? Or do you watch it on tv or come on a forum instead?


I attended church this morning while eating my breakfast.

I then attended church while driving my car to work.

When I get home tonight I will once more attend church.....

Here is how I can attend my church...

https://www.rbthieme.org/PDF/LessonListingForWeb2014.pdf

I have looked. I can not find a better teaching church anywhere.
I have attended other churches.

I once gave a pastor of a small church I attended, cartons of cassettes when I needed to move away with limited space.

He told me the following after giving a few a listen...

"I can't get over how his congregation actually wants and really appreciates this kind of teaching."

He was forced by his congregation to keep his own messages very simple and basic.

grace and peace ................
 
Do you believe a Christian must attend church or is it okay to watch it live at home?
The early church met in person so the cyber stuff doesn't count unless there is some physical reason one cannot meet in person. There are always exceptions to the rules. The body needs its members to function together using their gifts. You cannot use them as a lone ranger so to speak.
 
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